Defining My Perception of Love

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

Ken Rank said:
And what is the result of a spiritual death... separation from God? If yes... how does He then covenant with Israel, call David the Apple of His eye? The Hebrew says, and if you don't believe me... go find somebody who reads Hebrew... it is emphatic... mut t'mut... "dying you WILL DIE." It is a process, not an immediate death.

1. not the points you are supposedly addressing in my post 2. off topic for the OP 3. doesn't change what I said about the death talked about in scripture in fact, supports what I said. and 4. my husband took both Hebrew and Greek, I think I have that covered enough to know something about what I am telling you, not to mention I study an average of 40-48 hours a week and if I am not studying scripture I am teaching it. Much to the disappointment of some in the church that want to teach their own version.

That rules out the immediate spiritual death and what does that even mean anyway? Adam was flesh and when the spirit and flesh came together he became a living soul. Remove the spirit and he dies, there, on the spot. It was a physical death... a process, dying you will die.

see, there is so much wrong with the way you are talking here it hurts, but the real problem is that you are removing half of the scriptures to come to this conclusion. If you want to really get into it rather than just address the parts that are important to the OP question start a thread and invite me over. Otherwise we need to stay on topic

To be fair it is your interpretation that hurts, but I digress

Ken Rank · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
1. not the points you are supposedly addressing in my post 2. off topic for the OP 3. doesn't change what I said about the death talked about in scripture in fact, supports what I said. and 4. my husband took both Hebrew and Greek, I think I have that covered enough to know something about what I am telling you, not to mention I study an average of 40-48 hours a week and if I am not studying scripture I am teaching it. Much to the disappointment of some in the church that want to teach their own version.
see, there is so much wrong with the way you are talking here it hurts, but the real problem is that you are removing half of the scriptures to come to this conclusion. If you want to really get into it rather than just address the parts that are important to the OP question start a thread and invite me over. Otherwise we need to stay on topic

To be fair it is your interpretation that hurts, but I digress

OK, have a great day.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

Ken Rank said:
OK, have a great day.

you too...hopefully we will be able to study the topic together in the forum sometime

Galatea · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
how is the movie...we would love to see it.

As to sacrifice let me share a small bit of a study that blew my mind. Christ is our high Priest, right? Right The priest made made both sacrifices and offerings. IOW's Christ offered Himself as the sacrificial Lamb but He also offered Himself up for the suffering that would allow us to know that He understands everything we are going through. Love involves both offering (as in praying for others, that is interceding on their behalf) and sacrifice which is a covenant to stay the course, to suffer with them for as long as it takes for Love to finish it's work. Why? Because be are called to be priests...I Peter 2:9...a truly amazing study of how suffering is part of Love, well worth the time.

The movie was very good. I had seen a documentary about Desmond Doss. He was a gentle soul, and Christ-like. He even rescued some wounded Japanese. This shows me his love for all others, even people who were the enemy and trying to kill him. The battle scenes were horrific, but I think in a way, that is good to show us how really terrible this is.

I like what you said about love, it is true. I too often am unwilling to suffer for others. I would like to be more loving and more like Christ.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

Galatea said:
The movie was very good. I had seen a documentary about Desmond Doss. He was a gentle soul, and Christ-like. He even rescued some wounded Japanese. This shows me his love for all others, even people who were the enemy and trying to kill him. The battle scenes were horrific, but I think in a way, that is good to show us how really terrible this is.

I like what you said about love, it is true. I too often am unwilling to suffer for others. I would like to be more loving and more like Christ.

Our eldest son was a Navy corpsman attached to a Marine unit, he largely went into that because he didn't want to kill anyone. Early on he got a tattoo on his arm, and Ichthus that says, God says, Love your enemy...it was a constant reminder to him of God's Love and how hard it is to live up to His standard of Love.

Corpsmen have some of if not the highest degree of medals of all the military personnel. Even training is grueling. I struggle with watching it because I know too much, but then again, I hear it is amazing and I know that God has a plan no matter.

The truth of Love is that when we put others above ourselves in an act of humility it often puts us in uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous situations but it is the example of Love that we were given and the Love we are called to have even for our enemies.

May you find the smile of God as He cherishes not only you but every act of Love you share with others.

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
Our eldest son was a Navy corpsman attached to a Marine unit, he largely went into that because he didn't want to kill anyone. Early on he got a tattoo on his arm, and Ichthus that says, God says, Love your enemy...it was a constant reminder to him of God's Love and how hard it is to live up to His standard of Love.

Corpsmen have some of if not the highest degree of medals of all the military personnel. Even training is grueling. I struggle with watching it because I know too much, but then again, I hear it is amazing and I know that God has a plan no matter.

The truth of Love is that when we put others above ourselves in an act of humility it often puts us in uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous situations but it is the example of Love that we were given and the Love we are called to have even for our enemies.

May you find the smile of God as He cherishes not only you but every act of Love you share with others.

Hi, razzelflabben.

Yes, some tattoo designs, and the motivations behind them are just amazing and can speak volumes that leave a very deep impression.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
Hi, razzelflabben.

Yes, some tattoo designs, and the motivations behind them are just amazing and can speak volumes that leave a very deep impression.

hey faroukfraouk how are things going for you?

Another aspect of Biblical Love that is often overlooked especially when we talk about people with great needs, is the lavishness of Love. Love doesn't just meet a need, barely satisfy then move on. Rather Love takes time, care, and lavishness. In fact, scripture tells us to Love as we love ourselves. Few of us only have one pair of pants, but rather a wardrobe of clothes...seldom to be eat rice every day of the week, rather we have chicken, beef, pork, etc. It isn't enough in the Biblical view of Love to just meet the basic needs, we need to go beyond that and actually restore to the person receiving that Love the value that sin strips from us. A value that eve jewels could NOT restore, but it required the precious blood of the Lamb to redeem us because we have such a great value. Even look at the good Samaritan since we are currently talking about corpsmen...he didn't just tend to the mans wounds but paid for him to have a safe haven for healing. this is a lavished Love.

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
hey faroukfraouk how are things going for you?

Another aspect of Biblical Love that is often overlooked especially when we talk about people with great needs, is the lavishness of Love. Love doesn't just meet a need, barely satisfy then move on. Rather Love takes time, care, and lavishness. In fact, scripture tells us to Love as we love ourselves. Few of us only have one pair of pants, but rather a wardrobe of clothes...seldom to be eat rice every day of the week, rather we have chicken, beef, pork, etc. It isn't enough in the Biblical view of Love to just meet the basic needs, we need to go beyond that and actually restore to the person receiving that Love the value that sin strips from us. A value that eve jewels could NOT restore, but it required the precious blood of the Lamb to redeem us because we have such a great value. Even look at the good Samaritan since we are currently talking about corpsmen...he didn't just tend to the mans wounds but paid for him to have a safe haven for healing. this is a lavished Love.

A lot to be thankful for, razzelflabben.

Yes, for example, the theme of God's love in John's Gospel, John's First Epistle, etc. has many doctrinal depths.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
A lot to be thankful for, razzelflabben.

Yes, for example, the theme of God's love in John's Gospel, John's First Epistle, etc. has many doctrinal depths.

please share what you see there

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
A lot to be thankful for, razzelflabben.

Yes, for example, the theme of God's love in John's Gospel, John's First Epistle, etc. has many doctrinal depths.

It's not just vague, normless love. It's love which initiated with God; it's love which is bound up in God's purposes with the Person and Work of His Son; it's love which subsequently shows itself among those who believe, both Godward and among themselves. It's the meeting point between deep, doctrinal considerations and sublime facts and practical living full of certain hope.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
It's not just vague, normless love. It's love which initiated with God; it's love which is bound up in God's purposes with the Person and Work of His Son; it's love which subsequently shows itself among those who believe, both Godward and among themselves. It's the meeting point between deep, doctrinal considerations and sublime facts and practical living full of certain hope.

nicely done...thanks

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
nicely done...thanks

YW

So did your son - and I know this might be a bit difficult - receive any negative flak or positive appreciation for his amazing tattoo and its rationale?

Dave-W · Nov 7, 2016

Jack of Spades said:
Well, it's a matter of definition of the words, I suppose. We might use a little bit different terms for each. I would say that those three are at the very least, somewhere in the same direction on human emotional map.

Forgiveness - at least as used in the bible - has little to do with emotion. It is a decision to cancel an owed debt - whether real or imagined.

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

DaveW-Ohev said:
Forgiveness - at least as used in the bible - has little to do with emotion. It is a decision to cancel an owed debt - whether real or imagined.

Yes, it's both doctrinal and practical; and the grounds of it are dealt with particularly wonderfully in Romans.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
YW

So did your son - and I know this might be a bit difficult - receive any negative flak or positive appreciation for his amazing tattoo and its rationale?

he never said, but that is typical of him, he doesn't talk much about such things.

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
he never said, but that is typical of him, he doesn't talk much about such things.

Would you rather not know? or would you consider asking him?

I know some ppl don't like to talk about ink; they just do it.

razzelflabben · Nov 7, 2016

faroukfarouk said:
Would you rather not know? or would you consider asking him?

I know some ppl don't like to talk about ink; they just do it.

it wouldn't matter...he is very eccentric...loves to tell stories to see if you will believe him (just for fun)...he will only tell you what he wants you to know and nothing more.

To give you an idea..if you have ever watched Scorpion, he has about that much social skill only he is loved by everyone because of his Love and kindness to everyone. He has one step down from a photographic memory which makes life very complicated for him especially when it comes to dealing with PTSD and such things. meaning it is best to just let him say what he wants and let him know we are always there if he wants to say more and leave it there.

Galatea · Nov 7, 2016

razzelflabben said:
Our eldest son was a Navy corpsman attached to a Marine unit, he largely went into that because he didn't want to kill anyone. Early on he got a tattoo on his arm, and Ichthus that says, God says, Love your enemy...it was a constant reminder to him of God's Love and how hard it is to live up to His standard of Love.

Corpsmen have some of if not the highest degree of medals of all the military personnel. Even training is grueling. I struggle with watching it because I know too much, but then again, I hear it is amazing and I know that God has a plan no matter.

The truth of Love is that when we put others above ourselves in an act of humility it often puts us in uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous situations but it is the example of Love that we were given and the Love we are called to have even for our enemies.

May you find the smile of God as He cherishes not only you but every act of Love you share with others.

Thank your son for his sevice to our country. It is hard to love, but that is what Christ has called us to do, He loves us so much and He loves everyone else just as much as He loves us. Sometimes, this is hard to understand in our natural selves. I was thinking about God's love and how He can love us, I think He sees us as children still. Even Hitler was once a baby and an innocent child, I think God sees us as what we once were before the age of being responsible for sins, and maybe He can see all of us for what we COULD be if we trust in Him, the us that could be lovely and humble if we believe Him. It is incomprehensible, the love God has for us, we are all so unworthy.

Thank you for the benediction, it is much appreciated and an act of Love on your part toward me. I have been thinking about your words about suffering, and hope I will be more willing to suffer as the occasion calls.
God bless you.

faroukfarouk · Nov 7, 2016

I agree that Godly influence at an early age can be an immense blessing; although I would also think that Hitler would be more of an example of unchecked original sin, rather than of supposed original virtue.

Galatea · Nov 7, 2016

[QUOTE I would also think that Hitler would be more of an example of unchecked original sin, rather than of supposed original virtue.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean to imply that I believe in original virtue. I am stupidly trying to make sense of God's love and why on Earth He loves us. It is a fool's errand to try to wonder why He loves us. Here's a hymn, Amazing Love, actually my favorite, and one the Angels can't sing.

Defining My Perception of Love

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