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Ethics & Morality
Defending a religious person...
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<blockquote data-quote="seeking Christ" data-source="post: 62360378"><p>This reads as quite a different question from my side of the screen. We cannot, or rather <strong>I</strong> cannot come away from Scripture without the understanding that Faith is never independent of action. Your cited dictionary definition makes no account of this that I can see. I also feel no inadequacy due to my inability to plumb the depths of this mystery in a nice concise catchy phrase. I see the story of Abraham being the Father of faith as quite lengthy and involved, and a good many devout Christians never fully comprehending even that much. They manage to follow Jesus anyway, and some in this category do so <strong>amazingly</strong> well! It serves as a (necessary) reminder to me that our own understanding does NOT save us, and such people are a very important part of our Body.</p><p></p><p>Hebrews 11 comes along and maybe sorta tries to paraphrase and condense the "definition" provided in the story of Abraham, but it surely does not exclude action, and while it is a wonderful highlight does not yield the richness of said story.</p><p></p><p>Ultimately the only valid definition for faith I can give credence to is the lives of individual believers. We are all different and you and I certainly attest to that fact! While we have the same faith, each is unique. All are precious to God, of that much I am convinced.</p><p></p><p>Now you're asking me to boil that down? <img src="/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/old/kawaii.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="^_^" title="Kawaii ^_^" data-shortname="^_^" /> Not my role in the Body, I'd rather see it expand.</p><p></p><p>And I do think this fits perfectly with the unbeliever. How can they know Christian Faith until they begin experiencing it for themselves? And when they do, it starts out small, and will only grow if cultivated. Therefore anyone else's definition will necessarily be foreign to them, and very likely misleading <em>to</em> them. And yet discussing specific elements within the faith is thoroughly possible, and some of them can even be readily defined. Perhaps a few of them even by me?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have done no such thing. I tend to speak for myself. Anyone who wants to </p><p>take a modern dictionary definition for a highly complex Christian concept like "faith" for example, and reduce their conception of it to what is stated on the paper has that right. I merely point out that no aspect of my <em>own</em> conception of faith is modern in any sense, but can be found attested to throughout the ages, right back to Father Abraham. Who's Son I am, and who's inheritance I share <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Recently you posted about God Himself, whether in this thread or not I'm not sure. Your own statement there contradicts your assertion here, and is rather more in line with what I am driving at. Some things are so large that they defy our ability to describe. We can know of more than has been explained, w/o necessarily being able to verbalize it. This is pretty basic to Spiritual life.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="seeking Christ, post: 62360378"] This reads as quite a different question from my side of the screen. We cannot, or rather [B]I[/B] cannot come away from Scripture without the understanding that Faith is never independent of action. Your cited dictionary definition makes no account of this that I can see. I also feel no inadequacy due to my inability to plumb the depths of this mystery in a nice concise catchy phrase. I see the story of Abraham being the Father of faith as quite lengthy and involved, and a good many devout Christians never fully comprehending even that much. They manage to follow Jesus anyway, and some in this category do so [B]amazingly[/B] well! It serves as a (necessary) reminder to me that our own understanding does NOT save us, and such people are a very important part of our Body. Hebrews 11 comes along and maybe sorta tries to paraphrase and condense the "definition" provided in the story of Abraham, but it surely does not exclude action, and while it is a wonderful highlight does not yield the richness of said story. Ultimately the only valid definition for faith I can give credence to is the lives of individual believers. We are all different and you and I certainly attest to that fact! While we have the same faith, each is unique. All are precious to God, of that much I am convinced. Now you're asking me to boil that down? ^_^ Not my role in the Body, I'd rather see it expand. And I do think this fits perfectly with the unbeliever. How can they know Christian Faith until they begin experiencing it for themselves? And when they do, it starts out small, and will only grow if cultivated. Therefore anyone else's definition will necessarily be foreign to them, and very likely misleading [I]to[/I] them. And yet discussing specific elements within the faith is thoroughly possible, and some of them can even be readily defined. Perhaps a few of them even by me? I have done no such thing. I tend to speak for myself. Anyone who wants to take a modern dictionary definition for a highly complex Christian concept like "faith" for example, and reduce their conception of it to what is stated on the paper has that right. I merely point out that no aspect of my [I]own[/I] conception of faith is modern in any sense, but can be found attested to throughout the ages, right back to Father Abraham. Who's Son I am, and who's inheritance I share :) Recently you posted about God Himself, whether in this thread or not I'm not sure. Your own statement there contradicts your assertion here, and is rather more in line with what I am driving at. Some things are so large that they defy our ability to describe. We can know of more than has been explained, w/o necessarily being able to verbalize it. This is pretty basic to Spiritual life. [/QUOTE]
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