Deep devotion to Donald does not make a person a Christian.

Apologetic_Warrior · May 19, 2018

GingerBeer said:
So, following your line of reasoning, it is a Christian's duty to support war with north Korea, trade war with China, wall building to keep Mexicans out, and I guess in the past supporting General Franco in Spain because he was "pro life" and fully supported the Catholic Church! Somehow I can't find the goodness in your advocacy. Donald Trump's program is still promulgated in sin and is still fundamentally wicked. But the point of this thread is to see what the scriptures say about a Christian's proper attitude to political authority gone bad. Donald is just an example of politics gone wrong. He's not the epitome of it, just a bit player in the wickedness of political corruption.

No, sorry, your reasoning does not follow from the line of reasoning I laid out concerning the unborn's right to life. But since we are all over the place topically, I might as well insert a few thoughts. There are just wars and unjust wars, you do know about the wars in the Old Testament correct? And understand who gave the orders and led the Israelite's into situations of war correct? What would you say the implications are to application to today? If everyone in a nation were to take the "against my religion" approach, what do you suppose would happen to that nation? Why it would be crushed like a grape, and plundered for spoils. In other words, it is surrendering to evil, taking the doormat approach to evildoers. So I object to the notion that war cannot be justified under any circumstances. I also see many non-violent roles for a Christian within the military to aid those suffering in many ways. Now as for North Korea, ain't it ironic what actually happened? We buckled down on rocket man willing to do whatever we had to in order to maintain peace, and rocket man with the poor people under him suffering and drained of resources, compelled him to have a change of heart and happily comply. Oh and about that wall, Republicans AND Democrats have been in support of a wall, for YEARS and years, it would appear the main problem is, well the democrats lost the election and feeling a little [bless and do not curse] about it really dislike "the Donald" even though they appear to have loved him in the past (the world does love it's own), even his [bless and do not curse] reality show. As for goodness of my advocacy, it's not based on my goodness (what would that have to do with the truth of the matter anyway?), my view is based on the giver and Creator of life and His Revelation to mankind. Peace.

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

Invalidusername said:
You seem to think Trump is evil when he is actually a very normal person who led a very secular life rife with immorality.

I am not very confident that a life rife with immorality is normal. Besides Donald was rich from birth and that is not normal. He's cheated people and stolen money from them by declarations of bankruptcy. Is he evil, I am not sure but his actions are wicked in oh so many things. The scriptures warn that wicked men will face judgement and those who follow them are inviting judgement and condemnation upon themselves.

Go Braves · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
Donald is a good fellow, but we shouldn't have a devotion to him.

Well there's a lot of Donalds who are good fellows. Don Sutton, Don Baylor, my grandpa Don. I can't say I agree with you that Donald Trump is one of them. I do agree with you that we shouldn't have a devotion to him. Devotion ought to be reserved for your spouse, your children, and most importantly God. Not politicians or other worldy things. Well, maybe an exception can be made for our baseball teams?

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
But then we've all sinned. What makes his any different than ours?

That excuse is even worse than the last one. Paul did write that all have sinned but that is not a recommendation to vote for Donald Trump. Paul's words are intended to humble the wicked and prod them towards repentance. If Donald took Paul's words to heart then he'd be a much improved man. But his tweets and actions make it clear that repentance is not at the forefront of his presidency. What makes Donald's sins different from ours you ask, it is that he is president and his sins can lead the nation to war and kill many many people while ours are usually limited in effect to a few petty lies thefts and nasty gossip; they are nasty things, make no mistake, but the fate of nations and the possible deaths of millions or billions is not within the scope of our sins - unless 'us' happens to be a world leader of a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons.

Invalidusername · May 19, 2018

GingerBeer said:
I am not very confident that a life rife with immorality is normal. Besides Donald was rich from birth and that is not normal. He's cheated people and stolen money from them by declarations of bankruptcy. Is he evil, I am not sure but his actions are wicked in oh so many things. The scriptures warn that wicked men are face judgement and those who follow them are inviting judgement and condemnation upon themselves.

So lets vote for HILLARY THEN? MUCH BETTER PERSON?

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

GingerBeer said:
That excuse is even worse than the last one. Paul did write that all have sinned but that is not a recommendation to vote for Donald Trump. Paul's words are intended to humble the wicked and prod them towards repentance. If Donald took Paul's words to heart then he'd be a much improved man. But his tweets and actions make it clear that repentance is not at the forefront of his presidency. What makes Donald's sins different from ours you ask, it is that he is president and his sins can lead the nation to war and kill many many people while ours are usually limited in effect to a few petty lies thefts and nasty gossip; they are nasty things, make no mistake, but the fate of nations and the possible deaths of millions or billions is not within the scope of our sins - unless 'us' happens to be a world leader of a nation with thousands of nuclear weapons.

I believe Hillary supported Barack Obama's policy of withholding funds from schools that wouldn't let boys, who said they wanted to be girls, shower with girls. I don't think sin gets much worse than that.

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

Go Braves said:
Well there's a lot of Donalds who are good fellows. Don Sutton, Don Baylor, my grandpa Don. I can't say I agree with you that Donald Trump is one of them. I do agree with you that we shouldn't have a devotion to him. Devotion ought to be reserved for your spouse, your children, and most importantly God. Not politicians or other worldy things. Well, maybe an exception can be made for our baseball teams?

Donald Trump is a good fellow.

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
There are just wars and unjust wars

I do not think so, there are no just wars now because no one is receiving prophetic direction from a prophet of God inspired to lead the nation to war. Your line of reasoning is so deeply flawed that is is a shame to see it presented as an argument in support of anything much less an argument in support of showing "honour" to the current US president. Just wars are a theoretical construct, they are - in theory - defensive only, conducted with Christian charity towards civilian populations and intended only as a means of improving a bad situation. None of these theoretical conditions are met by our wars in practise. For example invading Iraq was not defensive it killed directly thousands and indirectly hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the net result is Iraq as a failed state in need of constant propping up by external forces. And that's just one example, Vietnam, Korea, Sudan, Ethiopia and so on are also examples, Libya too and the near destruction of Lebanon come to mind. None of these are "just wars" they just happen to be wars and are as immoral and wicked as any immoral and wicked war in any century of any age. So do not offer "just wars" as an excuse for honouring a bad man because he is president. That is not scriptural.

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
I believe Hillary supported Barack Obama's policy of withholding funds from schools that wouldn't let boys, who said they wanted to be girls, shower with girls. I don't think sin gets much worse than that.

That sounds like not knowing what sin is if that is the worst sin you can think of.

Go Braves · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
Donald Trump is a good fellow.

Well, to be charitable every single person has got goodness in them, including Trump. I wouldn't characterize him as a good fellow. He's too narcissistic & mean-spirited.

Apologetic_Warrior · May 19, 2018

This might help to understand Ginger:

"Jehovah's Witnesses believe their allegiance belongs to God's Kingdom, which they view as an actual government. They refrain from saluting the flag of any country or singing nationalistic songs, which they believe are forms of worship, although they may stand out of respect. They also refuse to participate in military service—even when it is compulsory—and do not become involved in politics. They believe Jesus' refusal to rule the kingdoms of the world as offered by the Devil, his refusal to be made king of Israel by the Jews, and his statements that he, his followers, and his kingdom are not part of the world, provide the bases for not being involved in politics or government. Witnesses are taught that they should obey laws of the governments where they live unless such laws conflict with their beliefs, such as operating covertly in countries where their activities are banned." - Wikipedia

Maybe Ginger can correct me if I am wrong, we can only hope, til then I await correction.

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

Invalidusername said:
So lets vote for HILLARY THEN? MUCH BETTER PERSON?

I am sure that the ballot paper had at least 5 candidates for president on it, most had more, a few less maybe. Hilary Clinton was only one alternative to Donald Trump there were several others. But the point here is that it is fundamentally unbiblical to be so devoted to Donald Trump that his every wicked tweet and wicked act - both from the past and from now - is defended because it is a christian's duty to honour him. It is not a Christian's duty to praise wickedness and pretend it is good.

Go Braves · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
I believe Hillary supported Barack Obama's policy of withholding funds from schools that wouldn't let boys, who said they wanted to be girls, shower with girls. I don't think sin gets much worse than that.

Oh jeepers. That's twisting things around a whole lot.

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

Apologetic_Warrior said:
This might help to understand Ginger:

"Jehovah's Witnesses believe their allegiance belongs to God's Kingdom, which they view as an actual government. They refrain from saluting the flag of any country or singing nationalistic songs, which they believe are forms of worship, although they may stand out of respect. They also refuse to participate in military service—even when it is compulsory—and do not become involved in politics. They believe Jesus' refusal to rule the kingdoms of the world as offered by the Devil, his refusal to be made king of Israel by the Jews, and his statements that he, his followers, and his kingdom are not part of the world, provide the bases for not being involved in politics or government. Witnesses are taught that they should obey laws of the governments where they live unless such laws conflict with their beliefs, such as operating covertly in countries where their activities are banned." - Wikipedia

Maybe Ginger can correct me if I am wrong, we can only hope, til then I await correction.

What do you need to have corrected?

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

GingerBeer said:
That sounds like not knowing what sin is if that is the worst sin you can think of.

If you see nothing wrong with letting boys shower with girls at school, then you'd better have a talk with the Lord fast. Even a dummy like me knows that.

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

Go Braves said:
Well, to be charitable every single person has got goodness in them, including Trump. I wouldn't characterize him as a good fellow. He's too narcissistic & mean-spirited.

He is just defending himself from the nonstop attacks from the mainstream media.

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

Go Braves said:
Oh jeepers. That's twisting things around a whole lot.

No, that is the truth. Hopefully these links are still current:

Obama administration directs schools to accommodate transgender students

Feds issue guidance on transgender bathroom acess in schools - CNNPolitics

Transgender Bathrooms -- Title IX & the Justice Department’s Transgender Activism | National Review

Federal court blocks Obama’s transgender bathroom order

Judge in Texas blocks Obama transgender bathroom rules

Texas judge temporarily blocks Obama's transgender directive on school bathrooms

Solace and Fury as Schools React to Transgender Policy

Judge blocks Obama administration directive on transgender facilities use

GingerBeer · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
If you see nothing wrong with letting boys shower with girls at school, then you'd better have a talk with the Lord fast. Even a dummy like me knows that.

So precisely what is the alleged sin that you see in letting boys shower with girls - by the way what age range are you thinking about here?

Go Braves · May 19, 2018

dreadnought said:
No, that is the truth. Hopefully these links are still current:

Obama administration directs schools to accommodate transgender students

Feds issue guidance on transgender bathroom acess in schools - CNNPolitics

Transgender Bathrooms -- Title IX & the Justice Department’s Transgender Activism | National Review

Federal court blocks Obama’s transgender bathroom order

Judge in Texas blocks Obama transgender bathroom rules

Texas judge temporarily blocks Obama's transgender directive on school bathrooms

Solace and Fury as Schools React to Transgender Policy

Judge blocks Obama administration directive on transgender facilities use

Did you read the links for yourself?

dreadnought · May 19, 2018

GingerBeer said:
So precisely what is the alleged sin that you see in letting boys shower with girls - by the way what age range are you thinking about here?

If you see nothing wrong with letting boys shower with girls at school, you have serious problems.

Deep devotion to Donald does not make a person a Christian.

Pilgrim

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

I miss Senator McCain

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

Well-Known Member

Lip service isn't really service.

Lip service isn't really service.

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

I miss Senator McCain

Pilgrim

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

I miss Senator McCain

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

Lip service isn't really service.

Lip service isn't really service.

Lip service isn't really service.

Cool and refreshing with a kick!

I miss Senator McCain

Lip service isn't really service.

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