Decisions about university...pros and cons

[sweetmercy]

Hi,

I'm hoping some of you will give me your opinions on a HUGE decision that I'm about to make. I'm going crazy trying to make up my mind, and input will be so useful! Okay, so I've been a "college dropout" for about a year and a half. I got sick of school between my second and third years and decided to take a break. During my break, I've worked full-time at a job I love, gone to Nicaragua for three months to work in an orphanage, etc. But now it's definately time to finish school. I miss the intellectual stimulation of having discussions and writing papers. And I'm really anxious to start my career, either in missions or internatinal relief and development. I've narrowed my university choices down to two schools, both of which I'm equally interested in. Here's the pros and cons of each:
#1....Pros
-is the university that I attended previously, so I can use most of my credits from before.
-I really enjoyed it a lot when I went there before and I miss it
-It's in my city, so I could be close to my friends and family (although, even though it's in my city, I would be living apart from my parents, in an apartment or something)
-has several levels of Spanish classes, which are important for me to study
-I like the Latin American Studies and Psychology programs, which would be my majors

#1...Cons
-is a secular institution, and I really want to go to a Christian school
-doesn't have on-campus residences, so I would have to go through the hassle of finding a place to live
-the program I'm interested is limited to Latin America which might limit career options in the future, if I wanted to work somewhere else in the world

#2...Pros
-is a Christian university (which would be good for fellowship and that a lot of the organizations that I want to work for in the future might favor a degree from a Christian school)
-I can live on campus and experience dorm life
-I like their International Development Studies and Psych programs
-costs roughly the same as the other institution, even though it is a private school

#2...Cons
-is halfway across the country, so I'd be far from my friends and family
-is in an EXTREMELY cold part of the country...we're talking -40 degree weather in the winter!
-there are no Spanish classes
-I'd have to leave the ministries in my church that I've just begun this year
-I'd have to quit my job, which I love

Anyhow, based on the pros and cons, which one looks like the best option?

Thanks in advance for any and all advice!
Jen

 

[bliz]

My first thought is that there are other Christian colleges, some where it isn't quite so cold!

If you chose a school that is a member of the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities, http://lasp.bestsemester.com/overview.asp you could participate in the Latin American Studies Program which sounds like something you would really appreciate.

 

[Athene]

I would go for the secular one, I'm assuming it will have christian groups there so you will still have fellowship. Plus you've written more cons for the christian university.

 

[California Dreamin']

I went to a Christian university last year and had an absolute horrible time. It was no different than a secular school and in my opinion it was worse. There was chapel and prayer before class and tests, but other than that... I thought it'd be easy to make new Christian friends and it wasn't.

I am living home going to community college nearby, but there is a university of about 7,000 nearby as well, it's secular, but they have a very active Christian Fellowship group with about 40 students every Friday night. I just started going to a new church and most of them go there and I also go to a girls only small group on Tuesday nights. My life now is way better than last year and I feel closer to God NOW.

I am hoping to get my life back on track and go to paramedic school in the future.

 

[sweetmercy]

My first thought is that there are other Christian colleges, some where it isn't quite so cold!

Yes, that's true that there are lots of other Christian colleges, actually there's even 2 in my town. But...I want to go to a Christian university, as opposed to Bible college, and there are relatively few Christian universities around. There is one close to my house, that I actually like even better that the one I'm thinking about, but the price of tuition is OUTRAGEOUS! So that out of the question. And none of the rest of the Christian universities in the country have the program that I'm interested in. The school that I'm considering actually has the best International Development Studies program in Canada. So anyway, that's the reason I'm considering going so far and risking freezing to death, lol.

If you chose a school that is a member of the Council of Christian Colleges and Universities, http://lasp.bestsemester.com/overview.asp you could participate in the Latin American Studies Program which sounds like something you would really appreciate.

Thank you! That looks really interesting, I'll look into that a bit more. Have you done that program yourself? If so, what did you think?

Someone else mentioned that Christian universities/colleges are sometimes worse that secular ones. I definately know that's true. But the one I'm thinking about has an excellent reputation, and I've heard of a lot of people who have loved it there. So I think that if I do choose that one, it'll be pretty good.

Anyway, thanks for all your help!
Jen

 

[bliz]

Yes, that's true that there are lots of other Christian colleges, actually there's even 2 in my town. But...I want to go to a Christian university, as opposed to Bible college, and there are relatively few Christian universities around. There is one close to my house, that I actually like even better that the one I'm thinking about, but the price of tuition is OUTRAGEOUS!

First, you are looking at the price tag, not at what the actual cost is going to be for you. You will not know that until you have applied and received a financial aid package. Colleges have all sorts of scholarships and FA options to offer. You may not get much, in which case the pricey college woulod be out of the question. But you may get more than you imagine is possible! Don't shut that door on yourself. Also, start looking now for scholarships you can apply for. The internet has changes the scholarship searching game totally! It is so much easier to find out about so many. NEVER pay anyone to help you find scholarship info, however. You can alwsys get it for free.

So that out of the question. And none of the rest of the Christian universities in the country have the program that I'm interested in. The school that I'm considering actually has the best International Development Studies program in Canada. So anyway, that's the reason I'm considering going so far and risking freezing to death, lol.

Where are you thinking of going? What are your other options? Have you ruled out US colleges? PM me if you care to... I worked for about 20 years in Christian higher education...

Thank you! That looks really interesting, I'll look into that a bit more. Have you done that program yourself? If so, what did you think?

CCCU programs came into existance long after I graduated from college... but I knew the guy who helped start and ran the Latin American Studies Program. They are alll excellent programs.

Someone else mentioned that Christian universities/colleges are sometimes worse that secular ones. I definately know that's true. But the one I'm thinking about has an excellent reputation, and I've heard of a lot of people who have loved it there. So I think that if I do choose that one, it'll be pretty good.

Are there Christian colleges that are lousy academically? Yes. But that is hardly a depiction of Christian colleges as a whole. In fact, because of class size and because of the strong calling faculty members usually have, students get far more attention and prof time and are much less likely to be able to just get by. At major universities, students fiind it difficult to have face time with their professors who often don't even know their names.

I have no idea where God wants you to be - that's the most important thing - gets lots of information, ask lots of questions and make people define their terms.
Anyway, thanks for all your help!
Jen[/QUOTE]

 

[sweetmercy]

First, you are looking at the price tag, not at what the actual cost is going to be for you. You will not know that until you have applied and received a financial aid package. Colleges have all sorts of scholarships and FA options to offer. You may not get much, in which case the pricey college woulod be out of the question. But you may get more than you imagine is possible! Don't shut that door on yourself.

Thank you for this advice! You've just inspired me to actually consider that my top choice university (the one that I said was too expensive) may actually be a possibility. I'll look into it and maybe talk to an admissions counsellor there.

Where are you thinking of going? What are your other options? Have you ruled out US colleges? PM me if you care to... I worked for about 20 years in Christian higher education...

The Christian univerrsity that is choice #2 in my OP is called Canadian Mennonite University, its in Winnipeg, Manitoba.
I haven't thought about US colleges, because frankly (no offence to Americans!) I'm not interested in living in the US, and because it would be quite expensive as the US dollar is higher than the Canadian dollar.
I might just PM you sometime with some questions about Christian education though; thank you for the offer!

Are there Christian colleges that are lousy academically? Yes. But that is hardly a depiction of Christian colleges as a whole. In fact, because of class size and because of the strong calling faculty members usually have, students get far more attention and prof time and are much less likely to be able to just get by. At major universities, students fiind it difficult to have face time with their professors who often don't even know their names.

I think there was a little misunderstanding. I meant that some Christian schools are worse than secular ones in terms of the people and attitudes you find there; not in terms of academics. Actually, the academics at most Christian universities and colleges are quite good, as well as the fact that they're smaller and more personal.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Jen - just MY reactions, based on what you said...

1. Dorm life is NOT what it's sometimes made out to be!!!! Think: crowded, terrible food (fattening, too), LOTS of noise, messy, getting on each other's nerves, getting old REALLY fast. It's usually more expensive than sharing an apartment and cooking for yourself - which is a LOT quieter and condusive to study, gives much more room, far healthier and better food - and you'll likely save money. You can STILL hang out with friends at all the campus locations, Starbucks, the neighborhood pizza place, etc. And you can eat in the cafeteria is you are really into stomach issues and empty calories, just to socialize at lunch, if you can tolerate that.


2. I go to a large, secular, state university. I have a very good buddy that does to a well known Christian college. I have far more Christian activities at my school than he has at his - and from a wide variety of traditions. There are several large, active Christian organizations on campus - including choirs, etc.


Just MY view...


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



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[CaliforniaJosiah]

Are there Christian colleges that are lousy academically? Yes. But that is hardly a depiction of Christian colleges as a whole. In fact, because of class size and because of the strong calling faculty members usually have, students get far more attention and prof time and are much less likely to be able to just get by. At major universities, students fiind it difficult to have face time with their professors who often don't even know their names.

It all depends on what you need and want...


1. GENERALIZATIONS are always pretty meaningless when dealing with particulars. And yes, secular/state-supported colleges AND religious colleges vary greatly from school to school.

2. I think, as a general rule (see above, lol), in terms of acedemics, public state-supported institutions are usually better. They usually have a LOT more money to work with, a better trained faculty, better libraries and science labs, higher level of courses, etc. A quick review of comparisons usually show the typical small Christian college down the list acedemicly.

3. BUT, the small Christian college does offer individual attention. I've had single classes with more students than some entire Christian colleges! I've had classes where I truely was just a number! Now, there are tuitors, I can see a TA very easily, I can even see my prof - with an appointment. But it's not the "friend" relationship, the first-name basis stuff that someones happens at private small colleges. A big public university is GREAT for those who can learn with some independance and can make all the AWESOME resources work for you. If you need a lot of individual attention and help, you can get lost and overwhelmed very quickly.

4. I think the strongest thing going for Christian colleges is the whole "world veiw" issue. Mine IS a secular school - the "mind set" is obvious. That doesn't bother ME at all - I recognize it, I know my faith and values. But if someone wants their education to be from those who agree with them, who share the same faith/values/worldview, then that obviously suggests a Christian college - perhaps of their own denomination.

MY view...


Keep the faith! Share the love!


- Josiah



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[Billy Batson]

small colleges are hardly worth it for the academic environment. the purpose of a university is first and foremost, research. teaching is almost secondary. if you don't get enough facetime with your prof, it means s/he's busy with research and writing. don't dilude yourself into thinking that their purose is to teach. teaching's just a stipulation of their contracts. many of your favorite profs probably don't get paid as much as the ones you rarely see. universities spit out research. if they don't, then they falter and die.

if you want facetime with someone who just teaches, then smaller colleges are for you. if you want an institute to research and pursue academia on a very serious front, then a larger university is what you're looking for.

my beef with religious schools is that they are not the forefront of intellectualism for this specific reason. you don't go to school for the social environment where you feel comfortable around your peers -- it helps, but you go to learn as much as possible.

 

[bliz]

small colleges are hardly worth it for the academic environment. the purpose of a university is first and foremost, research. teaching is almost secondary. if you don't get enough facetime with your prof, it means s/he's busy with research and writing. don't dilude yourself into thinking that their purose is to teach. teaching's just a stipulation of their contracts. many of your favorite profs probably don't get paid as much as the ones you rarely see. universities spit out research. if they don't, then they falter and die.

Thank you for making my case. How much does one learn from a professor who has no interest in teaching and considers their teaching load the cost of doing research? How good is that person's teaching skills? And, as a parent, how much am I to pay for the privlige of having some faculty member regard my child as a distraction?

I have a friend who teaches at a major university - people in his field know his name. He personally loves to reaserch and so he does a lot of it - in the summers. His first love is teaching and he chooses to teach 100 and 200 level courses because he feels that's where he can best train minds for his field. He finds it sad that administrators and department heads always talk with him about his research but no one ever discusses with him if he is able to teach what he knows.

if you want facetime with someone who just teaches, then smaller colleges are for you. if you want an institute to research and pursue academia on a very serious front, then a larger university is what you're looking for.

Research is an important part of academia, but no more important than pedegogy.

my beef with religious schools is that they are not the forefront of intellectualism for this specific reason. you don't go to school for the social environment where you feel comfortable around your peers -- it helps, but you go to learn as much as possible.

The "forefront of intellectualism" is quite different for undergraduate and for graduate education. Undergraduate years are for getting the basics down. Were you making a case for graduate school, I would agree with you, but not for undergraduate.

 

[Billy Batson]

no no. undergraduate years contribute to learning the basics but by the time you're midway through you're 2nd year, you should be more than adequately prepared for harder and upper level classes. the higher the class level, the smaller classes become. those large lectures are for general overviews of the course works to expect should you explore those fields separately. the whole excuse of "bigger classes aren't in my best interest because i don't get face time with my prof" is bunk because if you can't get past gen-eds, then you're probably not college material. gen eds aren't difficult by any stretch of the imagination. once you begin narrowing your field of study, the classes become smaller ten fold and you become very close to many of your profs. in smaller institutions, the same teachers can teach various levels of the same subject but that isn't necessarily a good thing -- in fact, it's probably quite harmful -- to get a liberal education (not in the political sense), you want a broad array of teachers teaching the same material at different levels as to not taint your learning by a single point of view.