- May 29, 2009
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This thread is posted in order to continue a discussion originating in Christian Advice where debate is not allowed.
The original thread can be found here.
Dave,
I know there are lots of verses that say that you can foolishly choose to reject the gift of faith given by God, that the devil can play a hand in this, as can the troubles and cares of the world (Parable of the Sower).
To take a logical step and assume that if we can choose to reject the gift, then we must have a choice in accepting the gift is to exceed the word of scripture. We dare not exceed the revealed word of God when formulating theology.
Consider this. If I am born into a certain family, I had absolutely no choice in the matter. I can remain in the family and enjoy all the benefits of family membership. Yet, if I desire, I can choose to separate myself from my family and the benefits of their love and relationships, reject my heritage and refuse to accept my inheritance.
It's the same way with God's gift of faith in Christ. Through the power of his creative, performative Word, God creates faith in the heart of those whom he desires to save - that would be all who hear the Gospel, for God desires for all to be saved (1 Tim 2) and faith comes by hearing the Gospel (Rom 10:17, Rom 1:16). Some of these, however, will reject this gift of faith and continue to resist God's grace until death and be lost.
I believe this is exactly why Jesus chose to liken conversion to birth. By saying that one must be "born again" (John 3), he is invoking the idea of physical birth over which we have no control or choice. John uses this idiom when he says in John 1:12 "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Paul echos this idea when he says in Rom 9:16, "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."
I would challenge you to present scripture that indicates that we have a choice to initially have faith in Christ, or that our human will plays a role in our conversion.
The original thread can be found here.
Dave,
I know there are lots of verses that say that you can foolishly choose to reject the gift of faith given by God, that the devil can play a hand in this, as can the troubles and cares of the world (Parable of the Sower).
To take a logical step and assume that if we can choose to reject the gift, then we must have a choice in accepting the gift is to exceed the word of scripture. We dare not exceed the revealed word of God when formulating theology.
Consider this. If I am born into a certain family, I had absolutely no choice in the matter. I can remain in the family and enjoy all the benefits of family membership. Yet, if I desire, I can choose to separate myself from my family and the benefits of their love and relationships, reject my heritage and refuse to accept my inheritance.
It's the same way with God's gift of faith in Christ. Through the power of his creative, performative Word, God creates faith in the heart of those whom he desires to save - that would be all who hear the Gospel, for God desires for all to be saved (1 Tim 2) and faith comes by hearing the Gospel (Rom 10:17, Rom 1:16). Some of these, however, will reject this gift of faith and continue to resist God's grace until death and be lost.
I believe this is exactly why Jesus chose to liken conversion to birth. By saying that one must be "born again" (John 3), he is invoking the idea of physical birth over which we have no control or choice. John uses this idiom when he says in John 1:12 "But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Paul echos this idea when he says in Rom 9:16, "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy."
I would challenge you to present scripture that indicates that we have a choice to initially have faith in Christ, or that our human will plays a role in our conversion.
