Dealing with Trials and Tribulations (Not for WoF)

JAS4Yeshua · May 24, 2009

Even though I'm posting this in the non-WoF subform, I know that sometimes it is easy to mistake what forum a person is in, and unintentionally post a response.

While the subject of healing and dealing with trials has been argued over and over again in the main forum, and now the debate forum, I wanted to start a thread to discuss the issue among those who disagree with the WoF teachings.

As many of you know, I've been dealing with a lot of trials in my life. I'm just going to post briefly for those who may be newer here, or unaware of my situation. I was married in December 2002. In October 2003, my job restructured and moved us from our friends and family to a new home 400 miles away. Around June 2004, my wife was told she had a tumor on her pancreas, but they didn't know if it was cancerous or not. In July, she underwent a whipple surgery, the most invasive abdominal surgery one can get. They basically took out the tumor, part of her pancreas, part of her stomach, parts of her intestines, her gall bladder, and a bile duct. I've heard it is more dangerous than heart surgery. In November 2004, she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had her thyroid removed. Since that time, my wife has gone through many surgeries, and his still, to this day, dealing with pain and complications relating to her whipple surgery. Then, of course, with the downturn of the economy, my local office closed in May 2008 and since that time I've had to commute 70 miles one way to work. I've also been stuck in between two positions, often times doing twice the amount of work that is typically expected, forcing me to take work home. I'm still hoping things will slow down for work, but because we sell software to the mortgage industry, and because the laws are continuing to change regarding home loans, everyone is being pushed very hard, so that we will all continue to have jobs. Add to that I've recently started having my own health issues, mostly minor, it all adds up.

This, of course, is only scratching the surface of my life these past six and a half years. There are ups and downs every day. It doesn't cover the addictions my wife had to face resulting from the overabundance of pain medications she's had to take, it doesn't cover the stress I've had dealing with those addictions. It is a constant emotional and even a spiritual struggle.

Through it all, though, I've never given up my faith that the Lord will deliver us. He has delivered me from so many things in my own life that I have no doubt He will deliver us from these trials. I don't know when, but I do trust in His provisions, and I do know that we are in His hands.

This tangent wasn't meant to highlight my trials, but to bring the subject of trials and tribulations forward for discussion. It is a question of how we deal with trials and tribulations. How do we keep strong? What do we believe when we, or those we love, are sick or struggling? How do we respond?

I look to my experiences with God's love and deliverance in my own life in the past. I cling to God's promises, through His Word, about His deliverance. I trust that, no matter how dark things appear to be, God is there with me, guiding me through the darkness, even though I may not see or feel Him.

I know I don't pray as often as I should. I do listen to God's Word in the car on my commute and I do listen to Christian music almost exclusively. Only other music I listen to is soundtracks, classical or other instrumental music when I'm working and don't want the lyrics distracting me. I probably don't seek as much support from my Brothers in Christ either. Due to the strains in life, I've found it difficult to make it to church over the past few months. Probably not a good idea, considering.

I don't know why I made this post so long, or why I focused more on my own trials than I had planned when first starting this post. Let me assure you, though, the topic is for discussion about dealing with trials and tribulations, not only my own, so feel free to share your own experiences so that we can all grow in the Lord and strengthen each other in God's Love.

JSGuitarist · May 25, 2009

That is a lot to go through, bro. I can't even imagine the stress that must put you through!

A friend from my church has a mental disability, he's a little slower than most. He's planning a sermon on recognizing a champion, probably based somewhat on living with his condition. He grew up in a charismatic church, though never has been healed. It looks like God has given him an alternative solution, and I am proud of him.

BenAdam · May 26, 2009

Hi JAS,

I know it is tough. I don't know if I could handle what you are going through (I hope I could). I do know this though: God is not trying to "teach" you something by this. My meaning is that God has not put this on your family or that you have done anything wrong or are any more deficient than the rest of us. You are learning things through this, but I really can't tell you why this is happening. My thoughts as to why this stuff happens is that sometimes the trials and hardship we go through prepare us for things to come, sometimes they are for others to see, and sometimes we just don't know why. I know with a knowing that God has you in His hands and is looking out for you. Noah and his family escaped the consequences of the Flood, but they still went through it.

jeolmstead · May 26, 2009

I don’t know anything anymore Jason,

I do not believe God makes bad things happen to us to teach us things. I do believe however that He does redeem the bad and from it yield good.

As with all redemption we have our part to play in the process, but, I for most part believe it is an act of grace from a Father who loves us and who walks with us through a very broken world.

This past year I met with God every day He revealed Himself to me as a Dad and He woke me up every morning around 3:00 AM for about three months. Each day he took me on a journey through undiscovered country. I came to understand that we were traveling through my own heart. It has been an amazing journey so far

I am a changed man. And, I don’t think I’ll ever be the same.

Since then, Cat has lost her job and taken one for half her former pay and my last day is June 30th.

I’ve been unable to find work and it appears that we could loose everything.

The only faith I have is that God will be with me no matter what, and that I have grace for this moment and no more. I suppose this is “Daily Bread” or peace that passes understanding, or maybe “Sufficient grace”. For me, this is the place of rest that Hebrews speaks of.

I’m praying for you brother, and your wife. I pray that you both find rest in your Daddy’s lap.

John O.

rosenherman · May 26, 2009

My husband of 25 years divorced me last year. We're still in the same house because of the market. When I was told he was divorcing me, I asked God what He wanted me to do, divorce (certainly the easiest solution) or wait. As soon as I asked God if he wanted me to wait I got the peace that surpasses understanding that God speakes about in His Word. I've had my bad days, but that peace has stayed with me for the last two years. I can just feel His mighty hand under me supporting me. My supervisor and dear friend of many years dropped dead in January. His peace and support continues to carry me through the loss of this wonderful woman. I talk to Him all the time and I've found the most wonderful congregation to be part of.

Sometimes we don't have any idea of what to do, God will be with us through all of it. Climb up in that mighty and loving warm lap and let His love ease your mind and comfort your heart.

HoneyComb Son · May 27, 2009

Heres my two cents...God is a good God.I dont think he sends bad things to happen to us.they happen..fallen world..we live with people who choose to sin or not..people have a choice..they sin or dont..unfortunaltely alot of people chooose to sin..the devil does his thing...bad things happen..

but I god agree..God does bring good from the bad stuff....i firmly think GOd doesnt send this stuff..when Jesus died on cross..he died for our poverty..sickness.sin..etc..we are to reign.that doesnt mean we all be millionares..no..our properity is Jesus..our righteoussness is Jesus..our healer is Jesus..i cant explain it all..but God loves us..good has no evil in it..we may think or rationalize or scheme reasons why this stuff happens..but you cant.you gotta go by the word..not your feelings or circumstances..God is good

i can say this..cause the last 8 years of my life.have been full of chronic physical emotional pain..false doctrine..broken heart.mental illness..i realized through it all.and still am alot..this is not God..but the devil.and this fallen world

we cant explain it..we dont have to..but God is good..Joseph Prince has opened up my eyes on God.and who He is...God is good.i hope my heart wil know this one day..though i cringe in labour and pain every day..and no one knows i live like this

lismore · May 28, 2009

Hello

Suffering is just for a time. Weeping comes in the night, but joy comes in the morning. He is no fool who gives up what he cant keep to gain what he cant loose.

Whatever you or I are going through, there are people going through it much worse. I got an email today from a Christian organisation who are ministering to children in India who live in a sewage pipe. Little kids living in the excrement.

And you or I are very blessed. When you leave this life you are going to be with the Lord. How many people, your neighbours, work colleagues and people on the street dont know the Lord and are going to an eternity of hell? Thats real suffering.

Having said that as Christians we are all brothers and sisters in God's family. We need to show more compassion for family members who are suffering.

God Bless You

the.Sheepdog · May 28, 2009

Im not here as wof, even tho I carry that icon. I carry it for those in that forum who need someone to believe in them and love them. The icon I carried before was like the Pirate Kings. Im here as your brother. I spent some time looking at your picture. You have such a beautiful spouse. I can see things in that picture.

I can see that she knows you love her. She knows it with everything that is in her. You are the strong example of a man to her. I can see how you love her not just in her face but in yours. And I can see in that beautiful face how she loves you.

Your love isnt in the physical limitation she or you have. It isnt in your trials or pains, or sorrows. That love transcends all that. I can see that your love is stronger than anything you are going through.

It has been said that we are not bodies with a spirit but spirits with a body (CS Lewis I think) I believe that to be true. Your love for each other is not limited to your bodies but is spiritual as well. As such that love can never die.

That is how I see our Lord. Always the same. Always in total love with us whatever we do or say or think. I fail Him almost daily. My body fails or my will fails, but my spirit sails and soars with Him!

I had my second stroke a couple weeks ago. I was told if I have another it may change my life entirely. (whatever that really means) As has been said before we live in a broken world and Satan will mess with us until we leave this earth. All he can do is cause our bodies to break. He cannot kill our spirit. He cannot kill the Love you two have for each other. He cannot have your soul.

No matter how it looks, and feels, and appears; We are so much more than conquerers. We are winners. We will live forever just as your love for each other will live forever. In my book that makes you both very blessed.

I will pray for you and for your dear wife's health and comfort, and for everyone in this thread I promise. Icons mean nothing. Family means everything and we are family.

JimfromOhio · May 28, 2009

Trials, the subject I am truly familiar with because I live in them. I can see you are facing alot of trials in short period of time and that is probably the biggest challenge as a Christian. Life's trials are often a two-sided coin:

One side trials may be viewed as coming from God to bring out the BEST in us (See: Gen. 22:1-2, 15-18; Hebrews 11:17).

On the other side of the coin, Satan attempts to tempt us and trials to bring out the WORST in us(see: James 1:13-14).

God did not promise us a rose garden. On the contrary, he promised us suffering. There is no logic in thinking God would spare us one kind of suffering on the basis that he's a loving father while not sparing us another kind of suffering for the same reason.

Here are some good quotes:

"The deep meaning of the cross of Christ is that there is no suffering on earth that is not borne by God." Dietrich Bonhoeffer

"Why should the righteous suffer?" "Why not?" replied Lewis......"They're the only ones who can handle it." CS Lewis

"Faith in God offers no insurance against tragedy." Philip Yancey

"Suffering is not an elective, it is a core course in the University of Life." Steven J. Lawson, When All Hell Breaks Loose You May be Doing Something Right

souldancer · May 28, 2009

JAS4Yeshua said:
Even though I'm posting this in the non-WoF subform, I know that sometimes it is easy to mistake what forum a person is in, and unintentionally post a response.

While the subject of healing and dealing with trials has been argued over and over again in the main forum, and now the debate forum, I wanted to start a thread to discuss the issue among those who disagree with the WoF teachings.

As many of you know, I've been dealing with a lot of trials in my life. I'm just going to post briefly for those who may be newer here, or unaware of my situation. I was married in December 2002. In October 2003, my job restructured and moved us from our friends and family to a new home 400 miles away. Around June 2004, my wife was told she had a tumor on her pancreas, but they didn't know if it was cancerous or not. In July, she underwent a whipple surgery, the most invasive abdominal surgery one can get. They basically took out the tumor, part of her pancreas, part of her stomach, parts of her intestines, her gall bladder, and a bile duct. I've heard it is more dangerous than heart surgery. In November 2004, she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had her thyroid removed. Since that time, my wife has gone through many surgeries, and his still, to this day, dealing with pain and complications relating to her whipple surgery. Then, of course, with the downturn of the economy, my local office closed in May 2008 and since that time I've had to commute 70 miles one way to work. I've also been stuck in between two positions, often times doing twice the amount of work that is typically expected, forcing me to take work home. I'm still hoping things will slow down for work, but because we sell software to the mortgage industry, and because the laws are continuing to change regarding home loans, everyone is being pushed very hard, so that we will all continue to have jobs. Add to that I've recently started having my own health issues, mostly minor, it all adds up.

This, of course, is only scratching the surface of my life these past six and a half years. There are ups and downs every day. It doesn't cover the addictions my wife had to face resulting from the overabundance of pain medications she's had to take, it doesn't cover the stress I've had dealing with those addictions. It is a constant emotional and even a spiritual struggle.

Through it all, though, I've never given up my faith that the Lord will deliver us. He has delivered me from so many things in my own life that I have no doubt He will deliver us from these trials. I don't know when, but I do trust in His provisions, and I do know that we are in His hands.

This tangent wasn't meant to highlight my trials, but to bring the subject of trials and tribulations forward for discussion. It is a question of how we deal with trials and tribulations. How do we keep strong? What do we believe when we, or those we love, are sick or struggling? How do we respond?

I look to my experiences with God's love and deliverance in my own life in the past. I cling to God's promises, through His Word, about His deliverance. I trust that, no matter how dark things appear to be, God is there with me, guiding me through the darkness, even though I may not see or feel Him.

I know I don't pray as often as I should. I do listen to God's Word in the car on my commute and I do listen to Christian music almost exclusively. Only other music I listen to is soundtracks, classical or other instrumental music when I'm working and don't want the lyrics distracting me. I probably don't seek as much support from my Brothers in Christ either. Due to the strains in life, I've found it difficult to make it to church over the past few months. Probably not a good idea, considering.

I don't know why I made this post so long, or why I focused more on my own trials than I had planned when first starting this post. Let me assure you, though, the topic is for discussion about dealing with trials and tribulations, not only my own, so feel free to share your own experiences so that we can all grow in the Lord and strengthen each other in God's Love.

Maybe you posted so I would read it. Today was such a hard day for me. It seems to get harder every day. It's like the more I pray the worse it gets. I had all but decided to quit praying for a while because today something changed. I felt hope leave. If you can deal with that much maybe I can take this broken heart after all. God bless you and yours in all your ways and a special blessing for having the courage to post this heart-wrenching post about your trials and tribulations. Thank you. I'm going to try and carry it with me for a while to remember others hurt, too.

JAS4Yeshua · May 29, 2009

Just wanted to reply to let everyone know that I've read and appreciated all the responses posted here. I also will pray for the trials posted here by others. I wish I had more time to write, but as mentioned before, work has me extremely busy.

Elijah2 · May 31, 2009

While the subject of healing and dealing with trials has been argued over and over again in the main forum, and now the debate forum, I wanted to start a thread to discuss the issue among those who disagree with the WoF teachings.
Do you really want to discuss WOF teaching?

As many of you know, I've been dealing with a lot of trials in my life. I'm just going to post briefly for those who may be newer here, or unaware of my situation. I was married in December 2002. In October 2003, my job restructured and moved us from our friends and family to a new home 400 miles away. Around June 2004, my wife was told she had a tumor on her pancreas, but they didn't know if it was cancerous or not. In July, she underwent a whipple surgery, the most invasive abdominal surgery one can get. They basically took out the tumor, part of her pancreas, part of her stomach, parts of her intestines, her gall bladder, and a bile duct. I've heard it is more dangerous than heart surgery.
Mate, I had the same in 2004, and yes its one of the most dangerous major operations going. I spend 53 days in hospital and had my first bit of food on the 47th day.

In November 2004, she was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and had her thyroid removed. Since that time, my wife has gone through many surgeries, and his still, to this day, dealing with pain and complications relating to her whipple surgery.
I am sorry to hear that mate about your wifes multitude surgery, but I understand the recovery of the Whipples so I am open to any questions. So please dont hesitate to PM me.

Then, of course, with the downturn of the economy, my local office closed in May 2008 and since that time I've had to commute 70 miles one way to work. I've also been stuck in between two positions, often times doing twice the amount of work that is typically expected, forcing me to take work home. I'm still hoping things will slow down for work, but because we sell software to the mortgage industry, and because the laws are continuing to change regarding home loans, everyone is being pushed very hard, so that we will all continue to have jobs. Add to that I've recently started having my own health issues, mostly minor, it all adds up.
Mate, you need a big hug, but the way things are its not easy to overcome and conquer things like what you are experiencing, and you are being tested from all directions.

You are in my prayers, and your wife.
This, of course, is only scratching the surface of my life these past six and a half years. There are ups and downs every day. It doesn't cover the addictions my wife had to face resulting from the overabundance of pain medications she's had to take, it doesn't cover the stress I've had dealing with those addictions. It is a constant emotional and even a spiritual struggle.
I am sorry to hear of the addiction to medications, and I can understand the emotional and spiritual struggle that you are experiencing.

You need a good, strong group of believers around you to support emotionally and spiritually. I wish I lived nearby, mate.

Through it all, though, I've never given up my faith that the Lord will deliver us. He has delivered me from so many things in my own life that I have no doubt He will deliver us from these trials. I don't know when, but I do trust in His provisions, and I do know that we are in His hands.

For our light affliction (trials of our lives), which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory (eternal blessings), while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Our trials produce eternal blessings, and through them our difficulties can be used to enlarge our spiritual capacity to experience fully the glorious eternal realities, to serve our Lord Jesus Christ, who desires a full and rich inheritance that awaits us in heaven.

This tangent wasn't meant to highlight my trials, but to bring the subject of trials and tribulations forward for discussion. It is a question of how we deal with trials and tribulations. How do we keep strong? What do we believe when we, or those we love, are sick or struggling? How do we respond?
My dear brother, the only thing that keeps me going is my faith. And that is the only thing that will keep you going.

The process of our earthly trials can produce treasures from the darkness and heavenly blessings, and this process occurs while we do not look at the things which are seen, ut at the things, which are not seen.

The difficulties of life are turned to eternal blessing, when we turn our attention to the unseen realities.

You also need fellowship with other men, mate.

I look to my experiences with God's love and deliverance in my own life in the past. I cling to God's promises, through His Word, about His deliverance. I trust that, no matter how dark things appear to be, God is there with me, guiding me through the darkness, even though I may not see or feel Him.
Yes, mate there are many hidden treasures in the darkness.

I know I don't pray as often as I should. I do listen to God's Word in the car on my commute and I do listen to Christian music almost exclusively. Only other music I listen to is soundtracks, classical or other instrumental music when I'm working and don't want the lyrics distracting me. I probably don't seek as much support from my Brothers in Christ either. Due to the strains in life, I've found it difficult to make it to church over the past few months. Probably not a good idea, considering.
Mate, you are not the only one, who struggles with these difficulties. But, you do need to catch up with some of the men-folk of your church, so you can share and talk about the things that you really need to talk about.

I don't know why I made this post so long, or why I focused more on my own trials than I had planned when first starting this post. Let me assure you, though, the topic is for discussion about dealing with trials and tribulations, not only my own, so feel free to share your own experiences so that we can all grow in the Lord and strengthen each other in God's Love.
Mate, my 72 years of life has been a complete trial, and I can assure you mate, that at those times we feel that all is lost, HE is there with HIS arms around you. See if you can play some good heartfelt praise and worship at your home, you need to this to help your wife as well in her needs and spiritual peace.

Anyway, if you wish to share the Whipples with me, then please PM me.

Blessings.

JAS4Yeshua · Jun 2, 2009

Thank you, Elijah. Your post and thoughts are most appreciated.

This thread was intended, originally, to be a discussion of trials and tribulations and how we deal with them. Instead, the Lord had something else in mind for the thread. To God be the glory, regardless.

Thank you, also, for sharing about the whipple. It is good to speak to someone else who is familiar with the procedure, and have personal experience dealing with it.

Charles L. Blackman · Jun 8, 2009

Sorry for all that you are going through. I know it can be very hard at times.

if I could add anything, I'd suggest surrounding yourself with good friends and people who really care about you.

My wife was going through some real hard times with her last pregnancy, the doctors said the baby would be still born or at the very best Downs Syndrome. It was devistating, everytime we went back, there would be something else going wrong.

My family are not "believers" like most people around here. we didn't really have a church and it was really hard. I found myself more and more tied up with work and everyone suffered for it. My oldest boy was friends with the youngest boy next door and would spend nights over there.

His dad, Joe, came over and befriended us and then introduced us to a couple of really great people who came and brought food, helped with the house and prayed for us.

When Justin was born, he was quite alive and every bit normal.

God always has our best in mind.

Jas4yeshua - your advice sounds a whole lot like Joe's -

ydouxist · Jun 20, 2009

I believe we face trials for many reasons.
Jesus said we are his witnesses. Not just witnesses of the gospel IMO, but witnesses to our reliance on him in times of trials. I believe God will call upon us on the day of judgment as witnesses against those that blamed him for things in their life.

Elecmech · Jun 20, 2009

I'm sorry that any of you brothers and sisters are going through such ungodly affairs during your short lives. I too have my own grievances to deal with.
Also, I'm not really sure how to answer as a Non WOF person would talk as the Word should cause one to have faith, if you believe and cling to God! But I am willing to try.
Since God is the 'Source' of all good things through Christ to usward, I believe that whenever any sort of calamity befalls us we should not reach out to the world for help, but to God. Many God fearing Christians don't have a clue (it seems) as to how to go to God other than some praying or to their preacher for advice. Per example; You become ill and it won't just go away.
1. You can go to the doctor and listen to his prognosis. [By doing this method, you have proven to all of heaven that your faith and trust is in Satan's hands (world's system).
2. You can grab for the horns of the altar in the Holy of Holies and cry out for mercy in Jesus name and remind the Lord God of your rights as a citizen in His kingdom. Ask for healing [without doubting in your heart] and then thank Him by praising and worshiping 'till He is moved on your behalf! Then go to your Elders and have them anoint you and lay their hands on you in Jesus name.
#2 isn't the 'clinical' way most prefer to get better, but it is God's way!

If you sought medical attention first then the truth is that you actualy told the Lord to stick His faith stuff where the sun don't shine so bright. Husbands [because they are the head of the family and also priests] should repent and cry out [loudly] for mercy. Individual family members involved also need to repent and ask for mercy.
I could say more, but the little instruction I gave is basic "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" stuff.
Again, my condelscences to those that suffer so great things in this life.

JAS4Yeshua · Jun 22, 2009

Elecmech said:
I'm sorry that any of you brothers and sisters are going through such ungodly affairs during your short lives. I too have my own grievances to deal with.
Also, I'm not really sure how to answer as a Non WOF person would talk as the Word should cause one to have faith, if you believe and cling to God! But I am willing to try.

As you are fairly new here, it doesn't appear that you understand what is meant by non-WoF. This isn't about faith vs. no faith, but, rather, how faith is interpreted in regards to healing (among other things). You can look in the debate forum to see the countless arguments about faith and healing.

Elecmech said:
Since God is the 'Source' of all good things through Christ to usward, I believe that whenever any sort of calamity befalls us we should not reach out to the world for help, but to God. Many God fearing Christians don't have a clue (it seems) as to how to go to God other than some praying or to their preacher for advice. Per example; You become ill and it won't just go away.
1. You can go to the doctor and listen to his prognosis. [By doing this method, you have proven to all of heaven that your faith and trust is in Satan's hands (world's system).
2. You can grab for the horns of the altar in the Holy of Holies and cry out for mercy in Jesus name and remind the Lord God of your rights as a citizen in His kingdom. Ask for healing [without doubting in your heart] and then thank Him by praising and worshiping 'till He is moved on your behalf! Then go to your Elders and have them anoint you and lay their hands on you in Jesus name.
#2 isn't the 'clinical' way most prefer to get better, but it is God's way!
If you sought medical attention first then the truth is that you actualy told the Lord to stick His faith stuff where the sun don't shine so bright. Husbands [because they are the head of the family and also priests] should repent and cry out [loudly] for mercy. Individual family members involved also need to repent and ask for mercy.
I could say more, but the little instruction I gave is basic "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" stuff.
Again, my condelscences to those that suffer so great things in this life.

Doctors have their place in God's design as well. Denying that is simply foolishness. If a person has thyroid cancer, they can pray all they want. God may heal them. If not, then that person will die. On the other hand, God may use the doctors to do surgery and radiation to remove the cancer so that the person might live.

It reminds me of a story about a man who was trying to escape a flood. There were heavy rains and the news reported that the region near the river needed to be evacuated as the river waters were rising. A man near the river didn't heed the warning, believing that his faith in God would save him. As the waters rose, he climbed up to the second story of his house. Another in a rowboat came by and saw the man in his house. The man offered to give the other a ride to safety. He refused, saying that God would save him. As the waters continued to rise, the man went onto the roof, and a helicopter came by offering to take him to safety. The man again refused, saying that God would save him. When the waters finally overtook him, he drowned. After his death, when he was facing God, he asked God why He hadn't saved him. God replied saying that he sent warning, a boat and a helicopter.

It is the same with doctors. God has gifted certain individuals to be able to be His hands when it comes to healing. Yes, God can and does heal miraculously. We should always pray, seek God, and be annointed by the elders in the church. That being said, that does not mean going to doctors is showing a lack of faith. It is trusting God in all things, knowing that He is in control of our lives, and can heal by miracle as well as by human hands.

Of course, even with all that said, not everyone is healed. What reasons that people aren't healed are hotly debated. One thing I can say for absolute certainty is that it isn't a result of lack of faith, nor is it the result of going to doctors. It is simply the fact that our current bodies are breaking down and dying. It is those situations where we, or those we love, are not healed, that I ask the question on how we deal with it.

Elecmech · Jun 22, 2009

JAS4Yeshua said:
As you are fairly new here, it doesn't appear that you understand what is meant by non-WoF. This isn't about faith vs. no faith, but, rather, how faith is interpreted in regards to healing (among other things). You can look in the debate forum to see the countless arguments about faith and healing.

You are right and I'll go check the arguments.

Doctors have their place in God's design as well. Denying that is simply foolishness. If a person has thyroid cancer, they can pray all they want. God may heal them. If not, then that person will die. On the other hand, God may use the doctors to do surgery and radiation to remove the cancer so that the person might live.

Other than the possibilities of those throughout history that have found certain plants with certain medicinal properties that have proven themselves advantageous to human health can be mildly considered as medically inclined. Other than this, where in the bible are 'doctors' sanctioned by God?

Man's presumption of the way things must be is why God's ways are seldom adhered to. The Lord has much to say about the imaginings of men and none of it is to His liking. When we won't follow the Lord, we become reprobate and create our own doctrines.
All things are possible to those that believe in God. The power of life and death are in your tongue. Without intimacy in your relationship with the Lord [which is divinely born and fostered in love] faith will not produce any results! All things hang on Love. Without these fact in operation in your daily life you'll never get from Him unless He acts in mercy on your behalf.

It reminds me of a story about a man who was trying to escape a flood. There were heavy rains and the news reported that the region near the river needed to be evacuated as the river waters were rising. A man near the river didn't heed the warning, believing that his faith in God would save him. As the waters rose, he climbed up to the second story of his house. Another in a rowboat came by and saw the man in his house. The man offered to give the other a ride to safety. He refused, saying that God would save him. As the waters continued to rise, the man went onto the roof, and a helicopter came by offering to take him to safety. The man again refused, saying that God would save him. When the waters finally overtook him, he drowned. After his death, when he was facing God, he asked God why He hadn't saved him. God replied saying that he sent warning, a boat and a helicopter.

Yeah. I have used this same illustration myself. However, it has no biblical foundation whatsoever. Additional comments below...

It is the same with doctors. God has gifted certain individuals to be able to be His hands when it comes to healing. Yes, God can and does heal miraculously. We should always pray, seek God, and be annointed by the elders in the church. That being said, that does not mean going to doctors is showing a lack of faith. It is trusting God in all things, knowing that He is in control of our lives, and can heal by miracle as well as by human hands.

I agree wholeheartedly with your first four statements! About 'doctors'? It will depend on [who] is being sought out first. God or a doctor. It is written, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God..." and there can be no exceptions! The Lord has also stated bluntly that He does not want anyone to perish. So why is the reason that anyone should suffer? It must be because we have failed to be righteous saints and citizens of His kingdom. And what are the inherited rights of the redeemed? You need to reexplore and then meditate till you get the clear answers.

Of course, even with all that said, not everyone is healed. What reasons that people aren't healed are hotly debated. One thing I can say for absolute certainty is that it isn't a result of lack of faith, nor is it the result of going to doctors. It is simply the fact that our current bodies are breaking down and dying. It is those situations where we, or those we love, are not healed, that I ask the question on how we deal with it.

I can spend much time in typing out scripture, and would gladly do so if you think it will help your circumstance, but any concluding results will be up to how you 'act' on what you perceive as truth. For you must receive His Word as the only truth for all things. God has never liked a mixture of things [hot mixed with cold is 'lukewarm']. A faint illustration is trusting God and trusting doctors. Bad mix!
In the Song of Songs you will see God's illustration for a saint's extreme desire for the fellowship and intimacy with his Lord. Anything less is the reason your or my own faith peters out and death enters in.

jeolmstead · Jun 23, 2009

Elecmech said:
I'm sorry that any of you brothers and sisters are going through such ungodly affairs during your short lives. I too have my own grievances to deal with.
Also, I'm not really sure how to answer as a Non WOF person would talk as the Word should cause one to have faith, if you believe and cling to God! But I am willing to try.
Since God is the 'Source' of all good things through Christ to usward, I believe that whenever any sort of calamity befalls us we should not reach out to the world for help, but to God. Many God fearing Christians don't have a clue (it seems) as to how to go to God other than some praying or to their preacher for advice. Per example; You become ill and it won't just go away.
1. You can go to the doctor and listen to his prognosis. [By doing this method, you have proven to all of heaven that your faith and trust is in Satan's hands (world's system).
2. You can grab for the horns of the altar in the Holy of Holies and cry out for mercy in Jesus name and remind the Lord God of your rights as a citizen in His kingdom. Ask for healing [without doubting in your heart] and then thank Him by praising and worshiping 'till He is moved on your behalf! Then go to your Elders and have them anoint you and lay their hands on you in Jesus name.
#2 isn't the 'clinical' way most prefer to get better, but it is God's way!

If you sought medical attention first then the truth is that you actualy told the Lord to stick His faith stuff where the sun don't shine so bright. Husbands [because they are the head of the family and also priests] should repent and cry out [loudly] for mercy. Individual family members involved also need to repent and ask for mercy.
I could say more, but the little instruction I gave is basic "Seek ye first the kingdom of God" stuff.
Again, my condelscences to those that suffer so great things in this life.

It's funny, I've never needed to remind God of my rights. He has always been the one reminding me.....

John O.

Elecmech · Jun 23, 2009

jeolmstead said:
It's funny, I've never needed to remind God of my rights. He has always been the one reminding me.....

John O.

I suppose I could have said that the Brother could have commanded God concerning His Word.
The Lord knows those that are His. But I sincerely believe that He wishes to raise us as good, but disciplined children. Meaning that He could give whenever we need without asking; we've all seen the type of kids that have come from that sort of parenting [moochers, lazy, and with no work ethics, etc.].

His way gets us to delving into the Word which renews our mindset to be more like His. Rather wise of Him!

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