Dealing with a cultist

[DarkProphet]

I just learned over Thanksgiving dinner that my 11yo cousin is basically being held prisoner by his EXTREMELY Christian father. By being held prisoner I mean that he has no access to a phone, internet, mail, or TV because apparently all those things are the devil. His father will also not allow anyone else in the family to see him. Being Christian he probably thinks he is doing what is "holy" but we fear that my cousin may end up dead.

As a Christian, how would you deal with a Christian cultist? What Christian argument can we use to get him to at least let us see my cousin?

 

[Sketcher]

Unfortunately by the time someone is "out" as a cultist, they won't listen to any reason at all. I'd pray in that situation, and if I sincerely believed that the kid was in danger, I'd call the police.

 

[DarkProphet]

Unfortunately by the time someone is "out" as a cultist, they won't listen to any reason at all. I'd pray in that situation, and if I sincerely believed that the kid was in danger, I'd call the police.

Technically he is not "abusing" my cousin, just creating an environment where he wants to kill himself. We are trying to build a case but without contact we don't have much to go on.

 

[vespasia]

In the UK child protection includes 'neglect' and 'emotional abuse' it may be approbraite to contact Child Protection Services regarding a child's basic needs being of concern a suicidal child who has not been seen by a doctor would count.

 

[Key]

Call your state or local Child Welfare organization, and see what they can do for you.

I would make a snide commentary about his "Cult of One" and ask him if he has the Koolaid (tm) ready? But then again, I am a jerk sometimes.

God Bles

 

[DarkProphet]

Call your state or local Child Welfare organization, and see what they can do for you.

They are the ones that PUT him into that home.

I would make a snide commentary about his "Cult of One" and ask him if he has the Koolaid (tm) ready? But then again, I am a jerk sometimes.

God Bles

He is part of a church with multiple branches, some kind of Baptist group or something. It's not a "cult of one" he is getting reenforcement from other people.

 

[seashale76]

I just learned over Thanksgiving dinner that my 11yo cousin is basically being held prisoner by his EXTREMELY Christian father. By being held prisoner I mean that he has no access to a phone, internet, mail, or TV because apparently all those things are the devil. His father will also not allow anyone else in the family to see him. Being Christian he probably thinks he is doing what is "holy" but we fear that my cousin may end up dead.

As a Christian, how would you deal with a Christian cultist? What Christian argument can we use to get him to at least let us see my cousin?

Is that the actual reason, or speculation? Perhaps it is a family issue that is keeping the father from seeing the extended family and not because of religion? Perhaps religious differences is merely a convenient excuse and not the real reason? Is the father related to you by marriage only and he and the boy's mother are divorced? Are these things merely limited or totally banned? Limiting is not a problem, but a total ban is excessive and a cause for worry. That will cause the kid to eventually rebel. They always find ways. The Duggars on that TLC show are some kind of Quiver Full Baptists or something- which I personally see to be cult-esque. Is it like that? Churches like that can screw up a kid pretty good.

I have to be honest with you- if half the stuff my extended family said over Thanksgiving dinner was actually ALL true...well...I'd be concerned too- but my extended family is prone to exaggeration. I've caught some of my extended family in outright lies. If you haven't heard from your cousin or his father as to the actual reason, then you've only got unverified speculation. Don't jump the gun.

Here's what I would do in real life though if I felt there was true cause for concern: I'd maybe invite them and some other younger kids from the family to go go-karting, bowling, etc. Then, you could see first-hand what was up and maybe have a tactful family member broach the subject in some way. Don't be accusatory. I'd approach it from the perspective of 'missing' seeing them at family gatherings- and if the man is a single father- perhaps offering the idea of getting together more often because the other cousins have expressed 'missing' seeing the boy. Just see what is said and go from there. If religion is specifically mentioned by the father- tell him that you aren't going to expose either of them to anti-Christian things and that even a weak faith should be able to withstand an hour or two of exposure to extended family. So long as the kid isn't exposed to cursing, alcohol, questionable movies, violent video games, smoking, drugs, (heaven forbid) dancing, or any talk for or against religion- the dad can't say much against it. If you think it may be life or death- then visit their church for the Christmas service or something (or get a willing family member who doesn't mind to do it). That would give you a very good feel of where they're coming from.

ETA: If you think the boy is suicidal, then find a way to contact him and ask the question. Plan a time and a place to ask the question (face to face). There are direct and less direct ways to do it. You mentioned suicide, so this is serious. You actually may be the person to confront this kid. Many kids that age are suicidal (I once was). I had a cousin who killed himself in middle school because he felt completely abandoned by his mother- and he had been- she passed him on the street like he was a stranger. So, if you think this might happen, it needs to be taken seriously.

Less direct approach:
Have you been unhappy lately?
Have you been very unhappy lately?
Have you been so very unhappy you wished you were dead?
You know, when people are as upset as you seem to be, they sometimes wish they were dead. I'm wondering if you're feeling that way too?

More direct approach:
Have you ever wanted to stop living?
You look pretty miserable. Are you thinking of killing yourself?
Are you thinking about suicide?

Asking the suicide question DOES NOT increase risk. Listen to what the boy says. Don't interrupt. Don't judge or jump to conclusions. If he's evasive, ask questions to confirm your guesses or suspicions. Look for nods of agreement or simple verbal answers. If he's even thinking about it, then you need to persuade him to get help.

Ask him something like:
Will you go with me to see a counselor (priest, minister, psychologist, etc.)?
Will you let me help you make an appointment with...?
Will you promise me...?

If he actually answers yes to any of the above you were successful. It wouldn't hurt to also say to him: I want you to live. Won't you please stay alive until we can get you help?

If you need help at any stage of the process- call 1-800-SUICIDE.

 

[DarkProphet]

Is that the actual reason, or speculation? Perhaps it is a family issue that is keeping the father from seeing the extended family and not because of religion? Perhaps religious differences is merely a convenient excuse and not the real reason?

It's possible, I haven't personally seen the father in over a decade, last time I did was before his conversion when he was raging drunk. Sadly the boy might have been better off if he still was a raging drunk.

Is the father related to you by marriage only and he and the boy's mother are divorced?

His mom is my aunt, and yeah they are divorced. Let's just say that him living with his mom is not a good option either. Fortunately he has a large extended family that is willing to take him in, if the dad would let us.

Are these things merely limited or totally banned? Limiting is not a problem, but a total ban is excessive and a cause for worry.

From what I heard they are banned. The bigger issue is that he is completely cut off from the rest of the world, including his family.

That will cause the kid to eventually rebel. They always find ways.

I'm sure he is a handful for his dad.

The Duggars on that TLC show are some kind of Quiver Full Baptists or something- which I personally see to be cult-esque. Is it like that? Churches like that can screw up a kid pretty good.

I've never seen that show. I've found that churches in general tend to screw kids up.

I have to be honest with you- if half the stuff my extended family said over Thanksgiving dinner was actually ALL true...well...I'd be concerned too- but my extended family is prone to exaggeration. I've caught some of my extended family in outright lies. If you haven't heard from your cousin or his father as to the actual reason, then you've only got unverified speculation. Don't jump the gun.

That is a good point but they seemed really concerned.

Here's what I would do in real life though if I felt there was true cause for concern: I'd maybe invite them and some other younger kids from the family to go go-karting, bowling, etc. Then, you could see first-hand what was up and maybe have a tactful family member broach the subject in some way.

In the entire extended family he is the only one in his age group, the next youngest is 2 and the next oldest is 18. My aunts have tried to talk the dad into letting them take the boy out for a day, see a movie or something, but the dad will not allow any contact.

Don't be accusatory. I'd approach it from the perspective of 'missing' seeing them at family gatherings- and if the man is a single father- perhaps offering the idea of getting together more often because the other cousins have expressed 'missing' seeing the boy.

Like I said, I haven't seen the father in over a decade, and no one else in the family has seen the boy in six months despite attempts to contact him.

Just see what is said and go from there. If religion is specifically mentioned by the father- tell him that you aren't going to expose either of them to anti-Christian things and that even a weak faith should be able to withstand an hour or two of exposure to extended family. So long as the kid isn't exposed to cursing, alcohol, questionable movies, violent video games, smoking, drugs, (heaven forbid) dancing, or any talk for or against religion- the dad can't say much against it.

The father has been telling his son that the extending family were sinners and going to burn in hell for as long as he has been a Christian. I remember once when the boy was like 7 he said that he was Christian not Catholic (my family consists of non-practicing Catholics) so it's clear the father is biased against us.

If you think it may be life or death- then visit their church for the Christmas service or something (or get a willing family member who doesn't mind to do it). That would give you a very good feel of where they're coming from.

This might be an interesting idea. However, his church is the one that gave him all these ideas. I fear they might be hostile to outsiders. All I know about them is that they are some kind of hard line creationists and they protest outside of abortion clinics.

ETA: If you think the boy is suicidal, then find a way to contact him and ask the question. Plan a time and a place to ask the question (face to face). There are direct and less direct ways to do it. You mentioned suicide, so this is serious. You actually may be the person to confront this kid. Many kids that age are suicidal (I once was). I had a cousin who killed himself in middle school because he felt completely abandoned by his mother- and he had been- she passed him on the street like he was a stranger. So, if you think this might happen, it needs to be taken seriously.

We are taking it seriously but we have no contact with him. This is why I am asking if there is any Christian arguments that could be made to at least get the dad to let us see the boy.

Actually your idea of visiting the church might have the most promise. I just not sure how that would go over with the dad or the church.

 

[Key]

He is part of a church with multiple branches, some kind of Baptist group or something. It's not a "cult of one" he is getting reenforcement from other people.

Contact his church leaders.

God Bless

 

[DarkProphet]

Well I found out what church he goes to, it's a Calvary Chapel. I know he got involved with them through AA so that might help too.

Any advice about talking to the elders would be appreciated.

 

[seashale76]

Well I found out what church he goes to, it's a Calvary Chapel. I know he got involved with them through AA so that might help too.

Any advice about talking to the elders would be appreciated.

Ah- I know a little about Calvary Chapel. They're premillenial dispensationalists (lots of CC types at sites like Rapture Ready for example). They go through the bible verse by verse in their services. I also recall a kind of split with CC churches a while back (I wanna say Chuck Smith and his son)? I know they've been accused of cult-like behavior in the past, specifically for their pastors having too much control and not enough accountability.

My interactions with those who attend a Calvary Chapel have only been on-line at Rapture Ready (a place from which I was banned). I was not impressed, but I'm biased.

If anything, I'd approach the pastor from the 'family is concerned and wants to see the boy more' angle. Just lay out the truth and see what is said. Perhaps they have Al-Anon meetings your family can get involved with to show support?

 

[Harry3142]

DarkProphet-

Even Child Welfare must answer to the Juvenile Division of the police dept. I would suggest that you contact the police directly rather than going through an agency, such as Child Welfare, that may be more interested in 'political correctness' than the actual safety and well-being of the boy.

What this group appears to be is an example of what I call 'the exploiters'. They may call themselves conservatives; they may even call themselves 'fundamentalists'. But in reality what you are seeing is a core group who is gathering others around them in order to attain purely temporal power and wealth. There is no religious conviction there in the core group. Instead, there is a concerted effort to promote their own agendas while using Christianity as a smokescreen.

To those who have been duped into joining such a cult, thinking that they are the only true Christians (which many of the 'fringe' cults claim to be), a comparison with what they are teaching and Scripture itself could come in handy:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

Every cult that I know of, including those who claim to be Christians, will try to 'dance around' this passage of Scripture. But unless all 15 of the acts of the sinful nature are rejected by them as equally sinful, and all 9 of the 'fruit of the Spirit' are accepted by them as equally to be welcomed, that group cannot legitimately call themselves a Christian group, much less the only true Christians.

Another reason to call the police rather than Child Welfare. The boy should be examined with his clothes off. Some of these cults believe that to spare the rod is to spoil the child, but they are cunning enough to limit the blows to areas that are normally covered by clothing, such as the lower back and the upper legs. To my knowledge only law enforcement has the authority to have the child examined this thoroughly.

God bless-

 

[WilliamPMiller]

DarkProphet, I don't have any ideas for you, but you and your cousin are in my prayers.

Will.