Deaconess assisting with communion

Woolz · Jul 7, 2019

Hi, I’ve been reading along on the Lutheran board for a couple of years now without posting. I’ve been a member of a LCMS church for a year and I’m coming out of lurkdom to ask about the LCMS stance on a deaconess assisting in passing out the elements in the Lord’s Supper. This has occurred twice now at my church and seems like it’s going to be the new routine. To be clear, our pastor is presiding over communion but our deaconess is passing out the bread. In the past our elders have assisted with passing out the bread. Is this ok according to the Book of Concord? Are there any particular places I can reference on this issue in the BOC? I am struggling with this in my conscience, which is the last thing anyone wants to deal with during communion. I know that I need to speak with my pastor about this but I wanted to find out if my expectations are out of line with the LCMS stance before I go to him. Thank you!

chevyontheriver · Jul 7, 2019

Woolz said:
Hi, I’ve been reading along on the Lutheran board for a couple of years now without posting. I’ve been a member of a LCMS church for a year and I’m coming out of lurkdom to ask about the LCMS stance on a deaconess assisting in passing out the elements in the Lord’s Supper. This has occurred twice now at my church and seems like it’s going to be the new routine. To be clear, our pastor is presiding over communion but our deaconess is passing out the bread. In the past our elders have assisted with passing out the bread. Is this ok according to the Book of Concord? Are there any particular places I can reference on this issue in the BOC? I am struggling with this in my conscience, which is the last thing anyone wants to deal with during communion. I know that I need to speak with my pastor about this but I wanted to find out if my expectations are out of line with the LCMS stance before I go to him. Thank you!

Just a few questions because I didn't even know Lutherans had deaconesses. How long have you had them? What do they do? Do they differ from deacons? Are they ordained? Thanks. I won't be bothering you about anything else.

Woolz · Jul 7, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Just a few questions because I didn't even know Lutherans had deaconesses. How long have you had them? What do they do? Do they differ from deacons? Are they ordained? Thanks. I won't be bothering you about anything else.

My understanding is they are commissioned not ordained. There is more info available here. Deaconess Ministry - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

chevyontheriver · Jul 7, 2019

Woolz said:
My understanding is they are commissioned not ordained. There is more info available here. Deaconess Ministry - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Interesting. We, as Catholics, do not have deaconesses but we do allow women to assist with distributing communion. There is only a little resistance to that but there is major resistance to having deaconesses. Anyway, thanks for the link. I hope you find the information you are seeking. My question is answered so I leave you all to discuss this without me.

Newtheran · Jul 9, 2019

Woolz said:
Hi, I’ve been reading along on the Lutheran board for a couple of years now without posting. I’ve been a member of a LCMS church for a year and I’m coming out of lurkdom to ask about the LCMS stance on a deaconess assisting in passing out the elements in the Lord’s Supper. This has occurred twice now at my church and seems like it’s going to be the new routine. To be clear, our pastor is presiding over communion but our deaconess is passing out the bread. In the past our elders have assisted with passing out the bread. Is this ok according to the Book of Concord? Are there any particular places I can reference on this issue in the BOC? I am struggling with this in my conscience, which is the last thing anyone wants to deal with during communion. I know that I need to speak with my pastor about this but I wanted to find out if my expectations are out of line with the LCMS stance before I go to him. Thank you!

Deaconess Ministry - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Link to the LCMS webpage regarding their deaconess ministry.

Is your church of the more traditionalist/confessional bent or less so?

Woolz · Jul 9, 2019

Newtheran said:
Deaconess Ministry - The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Link to the LCMS webpage regarding their deaconess ministry.

Is your church of the more traditionalist/confessional bent or less so?

I’ve been told that the deaconess training instructs women not to assist with communion in order to maintain good order.

Our church is middle of the road. We have a traditional and contemporary service. The contemporary service does still include confession, absolution, creeds, prayers, etc...the hymns are just swapped with praise songs. It’s very mild compared to the Southern Baptist praise team concert style I came from. The preaching is solid with a clear Lutheran law and gospel distinction. We are the only Lutheran Church in the county, surrounded by Baptist and nondenominational churches.

Newtheran · Jul 9, 2019

Woolz said:
I’ve been told that the deaconess training instructs women not to assist with communion in order to maintain good order.

"4.3 Members of the district diaconate shall neither preside at the Holy Eucharist nor exercise the Office of the Keys. In the absence of an ordained pastor and with approval of the pastor and congregation, the deacon may serve at the divine service including the communion liturgy using reserved sacrament. This practice should be used sparingly so as to not confuse the “Office of Deacon” and the “Office of Pastor.”"

Is quoted from this website (a good one):

Women preachers/deacons in the LCMS | Steadfast Lutherans

Which in turn is quoting from "the Atlantic District’s Diaconate Guidelines document". Given that the Atlantic District is one of the more liberal of the LCMS districts I'm not sure what authority that Diaconate Guidelines document holds outside of the district itself.

The comments on the Steadfast Lutherans website should help fill in the blanks.

Our church is middle of the road. We have a traditional and contemporary service. The contemporary service does still include confession, absolution, creeds, prayers, etc...the hymns are just swapped with praise songs. It’s very mild compared to the Southern Baptist praise team concert style I came from. The preaching is solid with a clear Lutheran law and gospel distinction. We are the only Lutheran Church in the county, surrounded by Baptist and nondenominational churches.

I'm also former SBC.

Woolz · Jul 9, 2019

Newtheran said:
"4.3 Members of the district diaconate shall neither preside at the Holy Eucharist nor exercise the Office of the Keys. In the absence of an ordained pastor and with approval of the pastor and congregation, the deacon may serve at the divine service including the communion liturgy using reserved sacrament. This practice should be used sparingly so as to not confuse the “Office of Deacon” and the “Office of Pastor.”"

Is quoted from this website (a good one):

Women preachers/deacons in the LCMS | Steadfast Lutherans

Which in turn is quoting from "the Atlantic District’s Diaconate Guidelines document". Given that the Atlantic District is one of the more liberal of the LCMS districts I'm not sure what authority that Diaconate Guidelines document holds outside of the district itself.

The comments on the Steadfast Lutherans website should help fill in the blanks.

I'm also former SBC.

Thank you for the link, very interesting reading. I’m a Steadfast Lutherans fan but hadn’t seen this article before.

kdm1984 · Jul 10, 2019

Yep, LCMS has deaconesses, but they aren't really supposed to pass out the elements. My local LCMS never has had deaconesses do that. The most I've ever seen allowed is a woman reading a passage from Scripture, which has happened only once in the year I've been here. No explicit teaching or handling of elements.

TKA_TN · Jul 17, 2019

We have deaconesses, and they hold a basket to collect the individual cups after we have drunk the wine. They've never passed out the elements. Senior Pastor, Assoc. Pastor usually distribute the bread, and elders distribute the wine.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jul 20, 2019

chevyontheriver said:
Just a few questions because I didn't even know Lutherans had deaconesses. How long have you had them? What do they do? Do they differ from deacons? Are they ordained? Thanks. I won't be bothering you about anything else.

...Since the reformation; Lutheran equivalent of Nuns (but they may and usually do marry).

Nova Scotian Boy · Aug 2, 2019

No deaconesses should not distribute communion.

tampasteve · Aug 2, 2019

Is there any stated LCMS rule about lay or Deaconess distribution of communion? I have found data in the past stating that lay people can (but should not) consecrate the Eucharist, so I am curious how that extends to distribution.

*EDIT*
Never mind, I found my answer on the LCMS website:
"The commission strongly recommends that to avoid confusion regarding the office of the public ministry and to avoid giving offense to the church, such assistance be limited to men"

Woolz · Aug 3, 2019

Thank you to everyone who confirmed the LCMS position on this.

Yes, I’m aware of what the scriptures say on the issue. I wanted to make sure I understood the LCMS position on this before talking to my pastor about my concerns.

St. Helens · Aug 5, 2019

MOD HAT ON
Members who do not truly share the core beliefs and teachings of a specific congregational forum may post in fellowship or ask questions, but they may not teach or debate within the forum.
Please do not publicly discuss reporting posts.
MOD HAT OFF

MarkRohfrietsch · Aug 5, 2019

Grumman Tomcat said:
MOD HAT ON
Members who do not truly share the core beliefs and teachings of a specific congregational forum may post in fellowship or ask questions, but they may not teach or debate within the forum.
Please do not publicly discuss reporting posts.
MOD HAT OFF

Thanks GT!

MarkRohfrietsch · Aug 6, 2019

Good article here; from the perspective of Lutheran Church Canada: Deacons in the Church: Vibrant Servants of God | Canadian Lutheran

CaliforniaJosiah · Sep 5, 2019

Newtheran said:
"4.3 Members of the district diaconate shall neither preside at the Holy Eucharist nor exercise the Office of the Keys. In the absence of an ordained pastor and with approval of the pastor and congregation, the deacon may serve at the divine service including the communion liturgy using reserved sacrament. This practice should be used sparingly so as to not confuse the “Office of Deacon” and the “Office of Pastor.”"

Since the layperson is not presiding but only assisting in disputing, there's no problem. There are often laypersons assisting in this role: Someones one to distribute one of the elements, another perhaps to collect cups (if such is used); sometimes even an acolyte assists.

There is nothing in the Lutheran Confessions about this.

Paladin7 · Oct 14, 2019

St. Paul spoke very clearly about the differences between men and women's roles in the Church (vocation). There is also some good reading material in the New Testament about the office of the Public Ministry that's worth reviewing. I don't see how it is possible to have a woman distribute the host, without her assuming (unintentionally in this case) the role of the Office of the Public Ministry with the ability to give or deny the Sacrament (Closed Communion/Small Ban) or putting her in a position where she is in authority over men in the congregation. It sounds very much to me like your Pastor is playing fast and loose with the Word of God.
If your Pastor needs help in the distribution of the Sacrament, why not ask a male Elder or a Man if Elders don't exist in the Congregation? When he has a man assist, he should never allow anyone but himself distribute the Host, since he holds the Office of the Public Ministry and all of its responsibilities over the Congregation.
I would suggest you vote with your feet and find another Church where the Pastor is more faithful. Talking to him will get you nowhere...believe me, I speak from bitter experience.

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