Day of Atonement. A thought.

[Stewartnz]

One of the more unpopular views held by Seventh day Adventists is that there are two distinct parts in Christ’s Atonement for His people.

But the ceremonial "figure" does indeed teach that all the sins of the people were dealt with TWICE. I will endeavor to offer a brief explanation.

Atonement, Part One.

In the "figure", the first part of the atonement was made when a guilty person presented his offering, confessed his sin, and transferred his guilt to the animal. The penitent would slay the victim with his own hand, and then, "the [common] priest shall make an atonement for him, and it (his sin) shall be forgiven him" (Lev 4:31).

But was this the only atonement that was made for that specific sin? No, the work of atonement did not stop there. Even though the man had gained forgiveness on the day of the offering, he knew that his sin was to be dealt with a SECOND time. The atonement was not yet complete.

If forgiveness was gained in the first or the second month, the Israelite knew only too well that complete atonement, and complete cleansing, could not be had until the seventh month. This is the clear teaching of the ceremonial "figure", or picture.

Atonement, Part Two.

On each day of the year, atonements were made between God and man. But the 10th day of the 7th month was the Day of Atonement. And what was the purpose of that day? It’s purpose is expressed in the words –

"on that day shall the [High] Priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord." (Lev 16:30)

"On that day", and not until that day, the High Priest made an atonement for His forgiven people, and cleansed them from “all their sins” before the Lord.

But prior to this, were the people clean from ANY of their sins?
No, prior to this, the people were not regarded as “clean”. The expressed purpose of the Day of Atonement was to bring about the cleansing.

Again, the High Priest, on the 10th day of the 7th month, was “to make an atonement for the children of Israel FOR ALL THEIR SINS once a year.” (Lev 16:34)

The phrase, “all their sins”, meant all their sins that had been confessed and forgiven up to that point. All their forgiven sins were to be retrospectively and FINALLY atoned for [blotted out] in the special events of the Day of Atonement. By God's design, it was only then that the final work could be accomplished. Only then could the people be declared “clean” from all their sins before the Lord.

If we accept that these ceremonial "figures" point us to the reality, then the principles involved here are important ones. The implications are broad.

___________________

Stewart.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Good post...

In the first atonement, they received the promise, in the second, they received the fulfilment.

I find it interesting, that those that do not see the cleansing of the sanctuary/the judgement/the atoning of all sin, as a work that must be done before Jesus returns. For when He does, He will have His rewards with him... judgement is done, crowns and jewels are already determined.

 

[mannysee]

StewartNZ,

The thing is though, when building bible "principles", one ought to look at how the NT writers interpret the OT, rather than (as your post reads) remain in the OT and build "principles".

In your thought above, it would be correct to go to the NT (perhaps Hebrews as one example addressing your subject) and see just how these "figures" are interpreted by NT scripture.

The NT writers are the best and safest "principles" teachers.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

StewartNZ,

The thing is though, when building bible "principles", one ought to look at how the NT writers interpret the OT, rather than (as your post reads) remain in the OT and build "principles".

In your thought above, it would be correct to go to the NT (perhaps Hebrews as one example addressing your subject) and see just how these "figures" are interpreted by NT scripture.

The NT writers are the best and safest "principles" teachers.

My Bible says the whole of scripture is the best and safest..

2 Tim 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

What scripture was Timothy here refering to, seeing as the NT had not yet been compiled?

 

[k4c]

I haven't done much study in this area but it seems to me that sacrificial system for sin was never really complete in the OT, but rather, they painted a picture of the work of Christ.

Hebrew 9:9-14 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The Day Of Atonement was the cleansing of the sanctuary in the OT. But this was sympolic and couldn't really cleans the true sanctuary. In the OT the sanctuary was symbolic for the true sanctuary, which is the conscience of man. The blood of Chirst cleans the true sanctuary, our conscience. In this we become at one with God, (AtOneMent)

 

[Joe67]

One of the more unpopular views held by Seventh day Adventists is that there are two distinct parts in Christ’s Atonement for His people.

But the ceremonial "figure" does indeed teach that all the sins of the people were dealt with TWICE. I will endeavor to offer a brief explanation.

Atonement, Part One.

In the "figure", the first part of the atonement was made when a guilty person presented his offering, confessed his sin, and transferred his guilt to the animal. The penitent would slay the victim with his own hand, and then, "the [common] priest shall make an atonement for him, and it (his sin) shall be forgiven him" (Lev 4:31).

But was this the only atonement that was made for that specific sin? No, the work of atonement did not stop there. Even though the man had gained forgiveness on the day of the offering, he knew that his sin was to be dealt with a SECOND time. The atonement was not yet complete.

If forgiveness was gained in the first or the second month, the Israelite knew only too well that complete atonement, and complete cleansing, could not be had until the seventh month. This is the clear teaching of the ceremonial "figure", or picture.

Atonement, Part Two.

On each day of the year, atonements were made between God and man. But the 10th day of the 7th month was the Day of Atonement. And what was the purpose of that day? It’s purpose is expressed in the words –

"on that day shall the [High] Priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord." (Lev 16:30)

"On that day", and not until that day, the High Priest made an atonement for His forgiven people, and cleansed them from “all their sins” before the Lord.

But prior to this, were the people clean from ANY of their sins?
No, prior to this, the people were not regarded as “clean”. The expressed purpose of the Day of Atonement was to bring about the cleansing.

Again, the High Priest, on the 10th day of the 7th month, was “to make an atonement for the children of Israel FOR ALL THEIR SINS once a year.” (Lev 16:34)

The phrase, “all their sins”, meant all their sins that had been confessed and forgiven up to that point. All their forgiven sins were to be retrospectively and FINALLY atoned for [blotted out] in the special events of the Day of Atonement. By God's design, it was only then that the final work could be accomplished. Only then could the people be declared “clean” from all their sins before the Lord.

If we accept that these ceremonial "figures" point us to the reality, then the principles involved here are important ones. The implications are broad.

___________________

Stewart.

Stewart,

Amen to two-fold work of our mediator.

1 Tim 5:21-25
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.
23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid. KJV

Joe

 

[Stewartnz]

StewartNZ,

The thing is though, when building bible "principles", one ought to look at how the NT writers interpret the OT, rather than (as your post reads) remain in the OT and build "principles".

In your thought above, it would be correct to go to the NT (perhaps Hebrews as one example addressing your subject) and see just how these "figures" are interpreted by NT scripture.

The NT writers are the best and safest "principles" teachers.

Romans 5:11 "...we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement."

If the Old and New testaments harmonize (and I think everyone here accepts that they must [and do] harmonize), then is it not reasonable to pose the question -- Which atonement is Paul referring to?

Seeing that in Paul's day, every Jew understood that the work of atoning for sins called for a definite two-fold work. This was perhaps one of the clearest facets presented in the ceremonial system.

I am not aware of anything in the New Testament that contradicts the view expressed in my opening thought.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Greetings to All:​

What's so fascinating to me is that many want to erase what the Old Testament of the Bible stood for and demanded. What they fail to see that all of the Apostles, Yashua our major Prophet, and John the final prophet of Elohim all quoted and used the Old Testament themselves and confirm that it was the word of Elohim. If they did then how can something that they only had to study and obey is not to be adhere today?​

To my Adventist brothers and sister and the person Stewart who started this discussion and his words was well put we are equally in the same boat? We claim a portion and then falsely state that Paul came up with the idea that the Atonement that is taking place in Heaven was nailed to the cross. At lease those who stand by that the Feast Days were nail to the cross are consistent in not believing in the Old Testament.​

We as SDA founded our faith from the Old Testament in the Investigated Judgment and boastfully claim that Yashua moved from the Holy to the Most Holy Place in Heaven on Oct 22, 1844. Well if that is so than that day was a Feast Day and it was not nailed to the cross or our message is not correct as others have said. Please do not confuse me those who still observe the passover it was a supper and not a Feast day-the Jew change even that which was not stated by Elohim!​

Here is our problem on Colossians 2:14-18 we do not really understand it. I tried to explain it the Remnant Online Forum which is an Adventist forum only. They place me an Adventist forum where only the Moderators could view and instead of doing what they said to have an open discussion they wanted to belittled me and call me out of my name. They even lied on me saying that I did accept EGW because I do not accept her as a prophetess but a messenger. I copy both what I wrote and what they wrote. They also would not provide any scriptures except one of them Sybil. I explain what words mean and EGW writing. They would not comment.​

But moving on the meat is unleavened bread for Yashua's Supper and the drink is the wine. Holy Days are the annual Feast Days including the Day of Atonement. New Moon means the actual beginning of months and we really do not understand that Paul was explaining to them that Yahweh's calendar had been changed. He had provided them the correct time which is a lunar/solar calendar. The Egyptians had changed Yahweh's time and today that is what we accept. You just can't change the days of the week at all. Then here is the most important the Sabbath days. ​

Well SDA comes up with these ceremonials Sabbath and there isn't any at all. The Day of Atonement was man's Sabbath only and the pioneers kept it according to Leviticus 23. What were done away with were sacrifices and oblations. Dan 9:27 Ceremonies, rituals, and the priestly services are rituals folks what you do on a given day. The rituals were done every day and that was killing animals however more were done on the Feast Days and the Sabbath.​

Finally if you notice in Colossians Paul said "the" this word is specific and in Lev. 23:28 about our sabbath the word is an "a." Check it out and on the day of Pentecost after the death and resurrection of our Messiah they kept another Feast Day but not in the Temple those ritual services were over. Paul lost his life because he listened to the Jews and kept some old rituals and he was warned by a Prophet of Yahweh. Tell me if Yahweh said these days are His and the Sabbath also was a Feast Day but the weekly one then how can any man change what is His? I never read where Yashua said to change then how could Paul? Read other texts and then get back with me ok! Lev 23, Acts 2:1; 20:6, 16, 1 Co 5:6-8; Gal 1:8-14 ​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

One of the more unpopular views held by Seventh day Adventists is that there are two distinct parts in Christ’s Atonement for His people.

But the ceremonial "figure" does indeed teach that all the sins of the people were dealt with TWICE. I will endeavor to offer a brief explanation.

Atonement, Part One.

In the "figure", the first part of the atonement was made when a guilty person presented his offering, confessed his sin, and transferred his guilt to the animal. The penitent would slay the victim with his own hand, and then, "the [common] priest shall make an atonement for him, and it (his sin) shall be forgiven him" (Lev 4:31).

But was this the only atonement that was made for that specific sin? No, the work of atonement did not stop there. Even though the man had gained forgiveness on the day of the offering, he knew that his sin was to be dealt with a SECOND time. The atonement was not yet complete.

If forgiveness was gained in the first or the second month, the Israelite knew only too well that complete atonement, and complete cleansing, could not be had until the seventh month. This is the clear teaching of the ceremonial "figure", or picture.

Atonement, Part Two.

On each day of the year, atonements were made between God and man. But the 10th day of the 7th month was the Day of Atonement. And what was the purpose of that day? It’s purpose is expressed in the words –

"on that day shall the [High] Priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord." (Lev 16:30)

"On that day", and not until that day, the High Priest made an atonement for His forgiven people, and cleansed them from “all their sins” before the Lord.

But prior to this, were the people clean from ANY of their sins?
No, prior to this, the people were not regarded as “clean”. The expressed purpose of the Day of Atonement was to bring about the cleansing.

Again, the High Priest, on the 10th day of the 7th month, was “to make an atonement for the children of Israel FOR ALL THEIR SINS once a year.” (Lev 16:34)

The phrase, “all their sins”, meant all their sins that had been confessed and forgiven up to that point. All their forgiven sins were to be retrospectively and FINALLY atoned for [blotted out] in the special events of the Day of Atonement. By God's design, it was only then that the final work could be accomplished. Only then could the people be declared “clean” from all their sins before the Lord.

If we accept that these ceremonial "figures" point us to the reality, then the principles involved here are important ones. The implications are broad.

___________________

Stewart.

GE:

I cannot agree with your explanation of 'atonement'. I find it artificial and also incoherent.

The daily sacrifices symbolised as far as they could; and the great day of atonement symbolised as far it was possible by that feast; and so on, EVERY type of 'TYPE' had its own symbolism and reach or scope.

The Gospels concentrate on the passover as THE figure and type of Christ.

Decades after the historical Gospel or Christ-event seen from the perspective of the passover, a certain apostolic figure must have seen some misconceptions developing within Christianity about the relation and correlation between the Christ-event and the Old Testament figures and types. To me it seems this writer began to see Christianity attached DIFFERENT FULFILLMENTS TO DIFFERENT typical representations or 'ceremonies' or 'feasts' or 'sacrifices' etcetera. Jesus Christ was not the only and exclusive realisation and essence of every and all types and figures any more. The passover presented a different fulfillment of prophecy than the great day of atonement, for example. Especially these two great 'feasts' were made prophetic types of Christ PLUS something else.

So this writer decided to explain to Christians, No, Christ is not only our Passover Lamb of God; He also is the essence and content of the great day of atonement, and that, in every respect the same as of the passover! "ONCE FOR ALL" THE SAME AND ONLY Sacrifice of God for the forgiveness of our sins : IN ALL and TOTALLY.

It is not this first part of the great day of atonement through this phenomenon and then thousands of years later that second part of the great day of atonement through that phenomenon. But it is the whole and oneness of the great day of atonement in all the whole and oneness of the totality of prophetic types and figures, like the passover and daily sacrifices and Sabbath's offerings --- EVERYTHING TOGETHER in the ONE Lamb of God Jesus Christ. The Gospels are not only about the passover; they are just as much about the great day of atonement. In the end there are only these two 'feasts', and they ultimately in and through Jesus Christ, MERGE into ONE Feast of Christ and of his Body his Church on earth.

This is the PRIMARY meaning of the book to the Hebrew Christians; and this is the PRIMARY purpose of the Gospels as the history of the "God-given and therefore eschatological imperative wholeness and oneness" (Lohmeyer) of God's Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ brought to fruition and fullness "in these last days".

What is more or outside this reach and realm of the Reality in Christ of God's Eternal Purpose, must be more and higher and better than Christ Jesus Himself, and therefore, must be blasphemous arrogance.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

.......................................
The Day Of Atonement was the cleansing of the sanctuary in the OT. But this was sympolic and couldn't really cleans the true sanctuary. In the OT the sanctuary was symbolic for the true sanctuary, which is the conscience of man. The blood of Chirst cleans the true sanctuary, our conscience. In this we become at one with God, (AtOneMent)

GE:

The day of atonement was the day of the Sacrifice of the passover "ONCE FOR ALL" through "our Passover" Jesus Christ "the Lamb of God".

"the true sanctuary" is Jesus Christ : "HIS NAME IS THE MOST HOLY PLACE". Isaiah 57:15. "The Sanctuary was cleansed on the sixteenth day of the First Month" ON THE SABBATH 2Chronicles 29:16-18 which was the "third day according to the Scriptures" 1Corinthians 15:4 of passover and "day that ye waved the First-Sheaf-Offering-Before-the-LORD" Leviticus 23:11,15 "when God raised Christ from the dead and set Him on his own right hand in heavenly dominion and majesty" Ephesians 1:19.

 

[Stewartnz]

GE:

I cannot agree with your explanation of 'atonement'. I find it artificial and also incoherent.

The daily sacrifices symbolised as far as they could; and the great day of atonement symbolised as far it was possible by that feast; and so on, EVERY type of 'TYPE' had its own symbolism and reach or scope.

The Gospels concentrate on the passover as THE figure and type of Christ.

Decades after the historical Gospel or Christ-event seen from the perspective of the passover, a certain apostolic figure must have seen some misconceptions developing within Christianity about the relation and correlation between the Christ-event and the Old Testament figures and types. To me it seems this writer began to see Christianity attached DIFFERENT FULFILLMENTS TO DIFFERENT typical representations or 'ceremonies' or 'feasts' or 'sacrifices' etcetera. Jesus Christ was not the only and exclusive realisation and essence of every and all types and figures any more. The passover presented a different fulfillment of prophecy than the great day of atonement, for example. Especially these two great 'feasts' were made prophetic types of Christ PLUS something else.

So this writer decided to explain to Christians, No, Christ is not only our Passover Lamb of God; He also is the essence and content of the great day of atonement, and that, in every respect the same as of the passover! "ONCE FOR ALL" THE SAME AND ONLY Sacrifice of God for the forgiveness of our sins : IN ALL and TOTALLY.

It is not this first part of the great day of atonement through this phenomenon and then thousands of years later that second part of the great day of atonement through that phenomenon. But it is the whole and oneness of the great day of atonement in all the whole and oneness of the totality of prophetic types and figures, like the passover and daily sacrifices and Sabbath's offerings --- EVERYTHING TOGETHER in the ONE Lamb of God Jesus Christ. The Gospels are not only about the passover; they are just as much about the great day of atonement. In the end there are only these two 'feasts', and they ultimately in and through Jesus Christ, MERGE into ONE Feast of Christ and of his Body his Church on earth.

This is the PRIMARY meaning of the book to the Hebrew Christians; and this is the PRIMARY purpose of the Gospels as the history of the "God-given and therefore eschatological imperative wholeness and oneness" (Lohmeyer) of God's Eternal Purpose in Jesus Christ brought to fruition and fullness "in these last days".

What is more or outside this reach and realm of the Reality in Christ of God's Eternal Purpose, must be more and higher and better than Christ Jesus Himself, and therefore, must be blasphemous arrogance.

______________

I am sorry Gerhard, but it appears that we are having trouble understanding each other here. You refer to a writings of a man who wrote "decades after the historical gospel...", please could you cite some of his actual material for me?

Regards, Stewart.

 

[Joe67]

GE:

The day of atonement was the day of the Sacrifice of the passover "ONCE FOR ALL" through "our Passover" Jesus Christ "the Lamb of God".

"the true sanctuary" is Jesus Christ : "HIS NAME IS THE MOST HOLY PLACE". Isaiah 57:15. "The Sanctuary was cleansed on the sixteenth day of the First Month" ON THE SABBATH 2Chronicles 29:16-18 which was the "third day according to the Scriptures" 1Corinthians 15:4 of passover and "day that ye waved the First-Sheaf-Offering-Before-the-LORD" Leviticus 23:11,15 "when God raised Christ from the dead and set Him on his own right hand in heavenly dominion and majesty" Ephesians 1:19.

Gerhard,

The passover is the beginning. Jesus is the beginning.

Leviticus 16 is the ending. Jesus is the ending.

There is a beginning and an ending of righteousness.

There is a foundation and a ceiling.

Then it is all turned over to the Father, that God may be all in all.

Joe

 

[stinsonmarri]

Steward, GE or Any One:​

Can you please answer some simple questions and definitions for me?

What does ritual, ceremony, services mean. What does the words feast, season, statues, laws, commandment, actually mean from the Hebrew and not English shades of meaning. What does it mean to change time in Dan 7:25 and why do the Amplified Bible gives the meaning clearly?​

What is the burnt offering and what does it represent and what was it? Was these things place on an altar daily or annually. Did Adam have to give a burnt offering? Were these rituals, ceremony, services just for Israel are did Adam perform them. Did the Day of Atonement started with Israel or when Adam first sin? Was there a Sanctuary before the flood where two cherubim stood and the glory of Yahweh?​

Where did Yashua become our passover and when? Were the Jews the only one that obeyed Yahweh and performed sacrifices? Explain who was Job, Balaam and how did Nineveh repented? Before Abraham were there any other chosen people besides the Israelites? Was there any priests after Adam who were they? Why Melchizedek was called a priest and king of the Most High and who was he performing his priestly services for? ​

Finally if Yahweh states that something is His can man change it or only Him?​

I hope you answer these questions and then maybe you will come to agreement together on the work of Atonement.​

Blessings, ​

stinsonmarri

 

[Byfaithalone1]

I recommend the following passages. I've included the chapter citations so you can read each one in its full context. If you anyone is interested in diving into any one of them in more detail, I'd love that.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Romans 6

He does not need daily, like those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the sins of the people, because this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. Hebrews 7

Not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. Hebrews 9

Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Hebrews 9

Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. Hebrews 10

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh. 1 Peter 3
​

BFA

 

[stinsonmarri]

BFA: ​

They all simply mean what I wrote as well as Stewart. The only problem is that the one here was a miniature of the real one. Yashua was the real Lamb but He also became the Heavenly High Priest. The services He did were more detailed than the ones here on earth. The lamb is a dumb animal that was used by Yahweh to illustrate to us how easy we follow anything like Jim Jones and others. The Feast Days never changed they are for Redemption and Salvation and both are in the Heavenly Sanctuary only it has no courtyard!

When everyone will realize that animals were being killed every day and more were required to be killed on the Feast Days which also include the Sabbath. Secondly we do not understand about crop growing that Yashua gave illustrations about throughout His ministry. Finally the Atonement was added due to sin but Yashua came in Oct 22 !844 on this day as the Holy Spirit came down as early rain on the exact day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit will come down again as the latter rain once again on the Day of Pentecost called Feast of Weeks (crop growing). The days were not nailed to the cross just the killing of sacrifices and the oblations. The services cease because the Sanctuary here on earth was not needed and it had to be destroyed. Its mission was complete and the Jews refuse to accept it as Adventist refuse to accept the truth about the Feast Days and what they truly stand for.
If the Church had continued what Miller was studying and presented to him by others we would have finished the work and Yashua would have come already!​

Blessings,

stinsonmarri​

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

BFA: ​

They all simply mean what I wrote as well as Stewart. The only problem is that the one here was a miniature of the real one. Yashua was the real Lamb but He also became the Heavenly High Priest. The services He did were more detailed than the ones here on earth. The lamb is a dumb animal that was used by Yahweh to illustrate to us how easy we follow anything like Jim Jones and others. The Feast Days never changed they are for Redemption and Salvation and both are in the Heavenly Sanctuary only it has no courtyard!

When everyone will realize that animals were being killed every day and more were required to be killed on the Feast Days which also include the Sabbath. Secondly we do not understand about crop growing that Yashua gave illustrations about throughout His ministry. Finally the Atonement was added due to sin but Yashua came in Oct 22 !844 on this day as the Holy Spirit came down as early rain on the exact day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit will come down again as the latter rain once again on the Day of Pentecost called Feast of Weeks (crop growing). The days were not nailed to the cross just the killing of sacrifices and the oblations. The services cease because the Sanctuary here on earth was not needed and it had to be destroyed. Its mission was complete and the Jews refuse to accept it as Adventist refuse to accept the truth about the Feast Days and what they truly stand for.

If the Church had continued what Miller was studying and presented to him by others we would have finished the work and Yashua would have come already!​

Blessings,

stinsonmarri​

A couple of comments...

First you say that the lamb was dumb and used by God to illustrate the nature of being easily mislead but then point out that Jesus was the true Lamb.... this diminishes Christ's character. It is better to state that a lamb is an animal that follows it master and heeds his voice.

Also, I know you are a feast keeper, but doesn't the statement you made about the heavenly sanctuary not having a courtyard, kind of indicate that the articles that were in the courtyard are no longer needed, like the alter and laver? Did not Jesus provide the last sacrifice needed for mankind? And if you believe that the sacrifices are no longer necessary, then doesn't that do away with the feast day itself. Did Jesus not fulfill the examples the feasts were eluding to?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

They all simply mean what I wrote as well as Stewart.

I suspect they tell us much more than that. Consider carefully the things that were completed once for all:

• Death to sin.​
• Sin offering.​
• Eternal redemption.​
• Sins done away through sacrifice.​
• Cleansing.​
• Sin guilt.​
• Offerings.​

Doesn't exactly leave room for a second chapter of atonement.

When everyone will realize that animals were being killed every day and more were required to be killed on the Feast Days which also include the Sabbath.

This is a compelling point that I have raised several times in this forum. To observe the seventh day sabbath as God commanded it to be observed, one would have to offer special sacrifices.​

The days were not nailed to the cross just the killing of sacrifices and the oblations.

This is the same form of picking and choosing of God's commands that is so prevalent in this forum. I find no basis for it. It a jot or tittle has passed, then all has been accomplished.​

If the Church had continued what Miller was studying and presented to him by others we would have finished the work and Yashua would have come already!

Christ's coming is contingent upon that which He does and not what I do (or any man does). He is sovereign and we are not.​

BFA​

​

 

[stinsonmarri]

ECR:​

Greetings my friend and you are correct, I should have provided the Scriptures instead. Sometime the way we say things can be presented it in the wrong way. I pray that all will forgive me and thanks ECR for showing me my mistake.​

Now again you are forgetting that there were still instruments inside the earthly Sanctuary that dealt with blood that were carried from the courtyard. EGW explains the sacrifices breaking the system down into some interesting points. PP p. 364,365​

1. Sacrificial services​

2. System of offerings or sacrificial offerings (sacrifices)
3. Earthly forms of worship because it dealt with animal blood
4. Ceremonial law or ceremonial system
5. The ritual law (ordinances)

Here are five distinct points that are mention in the Sacrificial System. Each was important in the Plan of Redemption. The first was the Sacrificial Services these services were given to Moses in the book of Leviticus. These services were divided into two divisions; one to be held daily and the other to be done yearly. The second division was the yearly services, which was the Day of Atonement. This service was done completely by the high priest and him only. These services were not to be held lightly, so Moses was to give Aaron strict instructions concerning each duty to be performed.​

The service was next carried over into the Holy Place before the veil, where stood the Golden Altar. These services were very holy and revered. They were to show how the Messiah was to come and die, then return to heaven and administer for the whole world in the heavenly Sanctuary.

Now here is where the forms of worship also came into play once they enter into the earthly Sanctuary which differed from the Heavenly Sanctuary. The difference was the blood there isn't any in the Heavenly Sanctuary instead there are books!

First you must understand how the form of worship worked. This worship plan was based on the birthright of the oldest son who would become the priest taken his father's place. This plan was to show about the begotten first Son of the Father after His death would take over and become our High Priest. (Ex 19:5, 6; 24:1-11) Man changed the forms of worship as well instead of the oldest son they used woman to be the high priestess. It was in Elohim’s plan that the first born or the elders of each tribe become the priest. Israel felt short and while Moses was receiving instructions the only tribes who remain faithful to Elohim were the Levites. Elohim bestowed upon them a high honor for their obedience and each of the tribes had to pay a redemption fee for this change. You still must pay a fee for your sins but Yashua took your place. Now this is the question did this change Elohim’s plan? It did not, Elohim knew that man would sin so this plans has clauses in it, yet, bringing man back into the original plan.​

Forms of worship also included the clothing the priest wore and the certain types of instructions given to the priest for the upkeep of the sanctuary. The Jews did not understand the sanctuary, and the many forms of worship; if so, they would have understood the mission of the Messiah. We too need to realize the importance of the original form of worship because even though they are no longer implemented here; they are performed in the Heavenly Sanctuary on a very large and particular scale. The sacrificial system were nailed to the cross and that was the sacrifice and oblation which did cease and these were no longer to be performed down here. Then the form of worship dealing with the killing of animal's blood was not needed and could never take away sin anyhow. It was a temporary covering until the real Lamb would come and die once. This is the original form or worship that certainly showed the magnitude of what is taken place in heaven.​

EGW said to study the sanctuary, she knew even in her day that not all was completely understood. However, until we understand the two difference systems we will not fully understand what is truly taking place in the Heavenly Sanctuary. We must see how the Commandment System works along with both the Plan of Redemption and Salvation and then it will reveal all truths which included the Feast Days of Yahweh because as he said they are His Feast.​

The Messiah had to come, die, and stand in our place before Elohim at the cross. He took on our sins, but He was innocent. The law still had not been met. Why, simply because the life of the sinner was not taken. A temporary covering was made. It is the same as when a person is charged with a crime and he is place in prison. A bondsman (the Messiah) stands before the court and allows the person to be release until the trial. He puts up the money (the Messiah's blood), to assure the court that this man will be there for the trial day. The blood of the innocent lamb was a covering or temporary protection until judgment is met. This does not come until the Day of Atonement which had to be done also in the wilderness not the others ones. Man had to be represented by those who were taken to Heaven alive to stand in our place. Others are the jury, witnesses and also those who sit in the courtroom. All who were selected for this job had to be cleansed, saved, and sealed first! This is what an Investigated Judgment is about a courtroom setting!​

The Messiah blood was spilled on this earth, but as the symbols of the earthly sanctuary shows, the sins of the people remain until the Sanctuary was cleansed or the books had to be cleared. (See Dan. 8:14) It was at this time the atonement came into fulfillment. Messiah left the disciples and return to heaven, He was inaugurated Priest King which was the original order after sin that was to be followed. Once this ceremony had been completed the Father sent down the Holy Spirit on the exact day to fulfill the Day of Pentecost (crop growing) to show that His son had received His title. It also showed that true work of the Holy Spirit has begun first with two parts. Early rain and in our day the Latter rain but the both falls on the Day of Pentecost (crop growing) (See Acts of the Apostles pp. 38, 39) ​

Now the forms of worships were no longer needed on earth-the Messiah has become our High Priest. He immediately begins serving in the Holy place. The prayers of the righteous are ascending up to Him and He is the true Lamb of Elohim. (See Heb. 6:19, 20; 9:12) ​

The Messiah moved into the most Holy place in 1844, and takes the books from the Father, and begins the investigated judgment. Here His cleansing blood begins to cleanse all whose were dead-starting from Adam. Adam and all who follow by faith who claimed to accept His redeeming blood had either stay in the Book of Life or had to be removed. The seals that were opened were various times, and all that were sealed were saved in the Book of Life and soon in their forehead. Only those who confess to know Elohim are investigated at this time. Many also are taken out of the book of Life and placed in the book of Death, because they turned not from their sins and died. This is taken place now for us when it finish when both the 144,000 and the great multitude are sealed Yashua will return. The multitude will be saved during the Time of Trouble that will last 3 1/2 years then probation is closed. ​

I have a chart if you would like to view it because it explains clearly the truth and importance of the Feast for the Salvation plan as those days did with the Redemption these plans are united as one. I also have plenty of Scriptures. I adapted it from the Leviticus Outline in the SDA Bible Commentary but made it much better.​

So you will not confuse me others I keep Yashua's supper because it a ritual ceremony that took the place of the passover supper. The passover supper was not I repeat a Feast day this supper was taken at midnight to begin the Feast of Unleavened Bread Week. Two days were holy days or worship where you do not go to your job but study and worship Yahweh. Is not like the Sabbath of Yahweh's or the Day of Atonement our sabbath and there is a difference! Yashua's supper also is to be taken at midnight.​

Blessings,​

stinsonmarri

 

[stinsonmarri]

BFA:​

The point that you are missing with the Sabbath and the Feast days they came before sin except one and that is the Day of Atonement. That is why it had to be done in the wilderness as well observed today. Every day they killed animals because you sin everyday which includes the Sabbath and the Feast Days. They're importance was because man sin and could not present himself before Yahweh like the other unfallen sons Yashua created. Man was limited to this earth but because sin that did not change the days for the presentation of extended fruit that would come in all worlds for both beings and plants. ​

You have to understand about what took place in the first two chapters of Job. ​

Satan tried to hide and sneak in trying to make the claim that he rules this earth. He has never ruled this earth because he and his angels only do what Yahweh permits them still do. He don't get it and it appears man doesn't get it as well. Ex 19:5; Psa 24:1 Plus he can never enter Heaven again he was met at the gate and stopped. If he can appear like an angel of light he can appear like one of the son's of Yahweh but Yashua know him because he made him.

Man still have to honor His Feast here and present there bounties here and to help in salvation here it is all about crop growing. We have not being good steward of our bodies, the animals, plant, and earth. They all are dying and completely out of control.​

The Sabbath and the Day of Atonement you are not do any type work period. Not the others they are set aside to worship Yahweh correctly and to present yourself before Him. However there is more to the Day of Atonement which has to do with fasting and praying humbly that your name is not blotted out of the Book of Life. Daniel in 7:25 say the Pope would try and change his Feast Days these are statues laws that deal with specific time. The Sabbath is a happy and rejoicing day and is the main one that help you to spiritually understand the other Feast days. ​

The plan of Redemption and Salvation was planned and made into specific laws before the foundation of the earth. Some were permanent other were to come into play if any of Yahweh's created beings sinned but repented however the sin still had to be meted out!​

Finally, I hope this will help you to understand that all nations, tongues and people in the past present and Yahweh's future kingdom keep feast days. All ancient people killed animal scarifies and some still do today they just went away from how Yahweh originally prescribed the sacrificial plan. These rituals were done daily to represent your body which you should have died. Rituals are carried out daily and on His holy days because we all sin every day. You keep rituals yourself on Easter, Halloween, Valentine, Christmas, New Years and these days are called feast days! Check them out you can't get away from how you were made and what was originally placed in your mind. Satan has taken and has converted and change the days for you to worship Sunday and his other unholy feast days.​

Thanksgiving, and July forth are celebrated also your birthday and most perform rituals on these days but this is all right because these are secular days! But you honor them and respect them and some do not work on these days. Now where do you think this concept come from? The problem is that most do not know that the word "holiday" actually means holy day and this is where it comes from! When you celebrate New Year's you get it from Satan who changed Yahweh's lunar/solar year to only a solar year and this was done by the Egyptians. Whatever you do to bring this day in is a ritual that you perform only on that day. The reason because it originated from religious rituals performed on a specific day! Check this out it is not hidden and that is why Yahweh wrath is going to be upon man. Simply because we don't try to understand the Old Testament and you really don't understand the New Testament. The reason is it says amen to the OT and establishes and shows that what it said was on point and correct and specific days and commandments are still binding! When Yashua came to fulfill Yahweh's commandments simply mean He obeyed and showed what they meant how they were to be kept. You just keep the ones you want and leave the ones you don't want it does not work like that. A contract is binding and it was renew by Yashua with His blood at the cross​

Blessing,​

stinsonmarri

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The point that you are missing with the Sabbath and the Feast days they came before sin except one and that is the Day of Atonement.

Even if this were true, why would it matter? The tree of the knowledge of good and evil existed before sin and is no longer a factor in our daily lives.

• The passover did not exist before sin.​
• There were no animal sacrifices before sin (and animal sacrifices are a central part of the God-given criteria for the observance of convocations).​

Man still have to honor His Feast here and present there bounties here and to help in salvation here it is all about crop growing. We have not being good steward of our bodies, the animals, plant, and earth. They all are dying and completely out of control.

I would agree with you that there are valuable principles found in all of God's commands to the Israelites. However, I don't claim to observe feast days.

Finally, I hope this will help you to understand that all nations, tongues and people in the past present and Yahweh's future kingdom keep feast days.

No, it really doesn't. But I respect that this is your opinion. The convocations were given to Israel. They included animal sacrifices. There will be no animal sacrifices in Heaven (just as there are no animal sacrifices today). Nonetheless, I do see the value in the principles of rest, worship, gratitude and sacrifice.​

You keep rituals yourself on Easter, Halloween, Valentine, Christmas, New Years and these days are called feast days!

Such opportunities to reflect back are certainly not God-ordained feast days, nor do I observe them or talk about them as such. ​

Satan has taken and has converted and change the days for you to worship Sunday and his other unholy feast days.

I don't worship Sunday, Easter, Holloween, Valentine's Day or Christmas. In fact, I find no particular value in these days. I am called to worship God every day and not only during one day each week. For example, I worship God on Saturdays (though that act alone hardly qualifies me as a sabbatarian). I don't worship a day; I worship God.​

Simply because we don't try to understand the Old Testament and you really don't understand the New Testament.

Do you really know what I do or don't understand about the Bible?

When Yashua came to fulfill Yahweh's commandments simply mean He obeyed and showed what they meant how they were to be kept.

That is not my understanding of "filled full." Through my study of the meaning of this word, I have concluded that it means that "the obligation was fully met." ​

You just keep the ones you want and leave the ones you don't want

I can assure you I don't keep any of them. Since I am guilty in one point, I am most assuredly guilty in all. I am not alone. However, I sense that you receive a blessing by observing convocations and I would not want to rob you of that blessing (nor is that my purpose in posting here).​

BFA​