Dawkins Admits that they are working on it.

TheBear · Jan 10, 2008

speakout said:
Was there a beginning?

Of the earth? Yes. Of our solar system? Yes. Of our galaxy? Yes. Of stars and planets? Yes.

And for all those, we have good working models and theories.

What happened before the Big Bang? I don't know, and neither do you. Difference is, I'm not willing to throw my arms up and settle for an unsupported "answer", and end any further inquiry on the subject. The god of the gaps won't suffice.

necroforest · Jan 10, 2008

TheBear said:
What happened before the Big Bang?

Depending on who you ask, this might not even be a valid question

TheBear · Jan 10, 2008

necroforest said:
Depending on who you ask, this might not even be a valid question

The physicists are having a field day with this, but nothing is clearly emerging yet.

Naraoia · Jan 10, 2008

atomweaver said:
Fixed that for you...

You want a real answer, I get that. Sadly, the only correct answer is a Discordian "mu"...

Discordian? I thought "mu" was Zen

TheOutsider · Jan 10, 2008

Naraoia said:
Discordian? I thought "mu" was Zen

Discordianism stole.. er, I mean borrowed a lot from Zen.

Principia Discordia said:
Before he became a hermit, Zarathud was a young Priest, and took great delight in making fools of his opponents in front of his followers. One day Zarathud took his students to a pleasant pasture and there he confronted The Sacred Chao while She was contentedly grazing.
"Tell me, you dumb beast." demanded the Priest in his commanding voice, "why don't you do something worthwhile. What is your Purpose in Life, anyway?"
Munching the tasty grass, The Sacred Chao replied "MU".*
Upon hearing this, absolutely nobody was enlightened. Primarily because nobody could understand Chinese.

And there is always this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UO3PAQodYg

Hail Eris!!!

AV1611VET · Jan 10, 2008

atomweaver said:
Fixed that for you...

You want a real answer, I get that. Sadly, the only correct answer is a Discordian "mu"...

Atom, please remove that as a quote from me, or I'll report you. Thanks.

MoonLancer · Jan 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
Atom, please remove that as a quote from me, or I'll report you. Thanks.

oh no's censorship...! why is it that ultra conservative Christians are so keen on destroying and oppressing the ideas of others? You are going against the first amendment of the united stats when you do so. I understand this is a private forum, so if they wish, the mods could remove the post, but man, show some f'in dignity.

if a thread doesn't go your way, you ask them to close it. wheres your intellectual fortitude...?

Belk · Jan 10, 2008

Patashu said:
So, magicians could do magic in the past but now they can not?

1. Could people today turn water into blood, etc. if they were so inclined?
2. How was the knowledge of magic lost or is it still known and out there?

I believe AV1611VET was pointing out that a "Magician" has always been someone who uses trickery. While God modified the physical world using "Miracles" which was an actual power.

FishFace · Jan 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
And by the way, can a magician perform an ex nihilo creation or walk on water? If not, I submit that magic and miracles are two different things.

Would you like to take my magician challenge? I walk on water in front of your very eyes. How will you convince your friend who didn't see me that I performed magic/a miracle?
What if I wrote it down - like you say God wrote it down? Would that convince your friend do you think?

I bet you won't take it

atomweaver · Jan 10, 2008

MoonLancer said:
oh no's censorship...! why is it that ultra conservative Christians are so keen on destroying and oppressing the ideas of others? You are going against the first amendment of the united stats when you do so. I understand this is a private forum, so if they wish, the mods could remove the post, but man, show some f'in dignity.

if a thread doesn't go your way, you ask them to close it. wheres your intellectual fortitude...?

At AVVEt's request (as soon as I saw it), I moved my added text out of the quote, despite the obvious nature of my addition. He is right, it was inappropriate...

Since I've been accomodating, AVVET; I've answered your original question and edited my post, could you answer the reply question;

If said magician were Jesus or God, would you submit that He couldn't perform an ex nihilo creation, or walk on water..?

atomweaver · Jan 10, 2008

Naraoia said:
Discordian? I thought "mu" was Zen

'mu' is Japanese. Just a prefix meaning -not.

Its the Discordians who commonly use it for as a brilliant response, which basically mean "you should un-ask the question" typically because the answer goes beyond the question's scope, or the question makes erroneous pre-suppositions... mu is so much shorter.

AV1611VET · Jan 10, 2008

atomweaver said:
If said magician were Jesus or God, would you submit that He couldn't perform an ex nihilo creation, or walk on water..?

I don't understand your question. Jesus did walk on water.

Naraoia · Jan 10, 2008

atomweaver said:
'mu' is Japanese. Just a prefix meaning -not.

Its the Discordians who commonly use it for as a brilliant response, which basically mean "you should un-ask the question" typically because the answer goes beyond the question's scope, or the question makes erroneous pre-suppositions... mu is so much shorter.

Yeah I had my fair share of "mu" and Zen when I read Gödel, Escher, Bach, so I kind of know what it means as an "answer". (Man, GEB is one book to tie your brain in knots...)

The Discordians got that usage from Zen, that was the point.

necroforest · Jan 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
I don't understand your question. Jesus did walk on water.

So did Criss Angel.

FishFace · Jan 10, 2008

FishFace said:
I bet you won't take it

How many of these predictions do I have to make before someone decides I'm infallible?

MoonLancer · Jan 10, 2008

AV1611VET said:
I don't understand your question. Jesus did walk on water.

so did ninjas ;p

Naraoia · Jan 10, 2008

FishFace said:
How many of these predictions do I have to make before someone decides I'm infallible?

It doesn't matter how many correct predictions you make, if you screw up just once your infallibility is disproven

So be careful with your prophecies

Patashu · Jan 10, 2008

Belk said:
I believe AV1611VET was pointing out that a "Magician" has always been someone who uses trickery. While God modified the physical world using "Miracles" which was an actual power.

And they just happened to have huge quantities of blood around to 'turn' their water into?

Patashu · Jan 10, 2008

MoonLancer said:
so did ninjas ;p

So did Sonic the Hedgehog.

AV1611VET · Jan 10, 2008

Patashu said:
And they just happened to have huge quantities of blood around to 'turn' their water into?

That's about the size of it --- note how the Bible puts it ---

Exodus 7:22 said:
And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments:

The key words here are, "with their enchantments," and I like what my Bible dictionary says:

Enchantments - American Tract Society Dictionary said:
Deceptive arts and charms practiced by designing men, and classed in the Bible with sorcery, magic, divination, witchcraft, and necromancy, or professed communication with departed spirits. All these are expressly forbidden and denounced in Scripture, Ex 22:18; Le 19:26; 20:27; De 18:10,11. The pretended power and skill of enchanters was ascribed to infernal agency, and the art was essentially hostile to true religion. Their seeming wonders were usually wrought by juggling tricks or sleight of hand, or by mysteries of science, known to but few. The magicians of Egypt are said to have done several things "with their enchantments," Ex 7:1-9:29; Ac 19:19.

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