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So do you think that scientists that make their livelihood would agree that their consensus that the universe appears designed is as simplistic as condensation on a shower curtain?
It is because that sits well with your own comfort level. You can dismiss without much effort a position based on faith but if there is any chance that there is objective evidence that support my position you have issues.
I think they would agree that the appearance of design and the appearance of Lenin in the shower curtain are the same type of appearance. Afterall, their livelihood is made by going beyond appearances and looking for the actual processes involved.
It is because that sits well with your own comfort level. You can dismiss without much effort a position based on faith but if there is any chance that there is objective evidence that support my position you have issues.
Which is what they based their consensus upon, the actual processes and measurements of the known universe.
I really and truly don't think Once is dishonest. I do feel she is confused in her thinking though and this is a factor.Has it occurred to you that, maybe, the reason people keep calling you dishonest is that you post in such a way that you genuinely appear that way to them?
I really and truly don't think Once is dishonest. I do feel she is confused in her thinking though and this is a factor.
Once I have to ask you, several people have said you have the appearance of being dishonest. Do you think this is support for your actually being so? I don't but this is a question you really need to look carefully within yourself for answers.
Dizredux
Oh once, you never cease to amaze me.
If a person of faith states they believe on faith and don't make claims they can not support objectively, I never question their faith. That is a personal decision and may be the best thing for them.
I have issues with potential objective verifiable evidence to support your claims? Objective verifiable evidence speaks for itself and I have yet to see you produce any, to support what you say is an "objective" conclusion.
If you have some, please share.
I really and truly don't think Once is dishonest. I do feel she is confused in her thinking though and this is a factor.
Once I have to ask you, several people have said you have the appearance of being dishonest. Do you think this is support for your actually being so? I don't but this is a question you really need to look carefully within yourself for answers.
Dizredux
I don't think the poster tries to be dishonest, it would seem a need to feel they are using objectivity in their conclusions though, is so important to them, that it creates situations, where the poster is forced to scramble and that is when the issues start.
Some people can admit they believe something on faith and some can't. The one's who can't, are in constant overdrive, searching for anyway to convince themselves, they have objective evidence for their belief. This is what we have here, IMO.
Diz, I have asked varied groups of people to assess the situation. I have been supported in my own assessment that it was not me being dishonest in the conversation.
I present my positions in the best way I can and to say I am confused in my thinking is pretty presumptuous don't you think?
Please name some. Links to their bio or other info abut them would be helpful.You do realize that there are others in the scientific arena that feel as I do? There are those that make the same claim that the evidence in our universe supports design. In fact, there have been some scientists that were once atheists/agnostics that due to the evidence of which I speak have come to the same conclusions as I do.
Diz, I have asked varied groups of people to assess the situation. I have been supported in my own assessment that it was not me being dishonest in the conversation.
I present my positions in the best way I can and to say I am confused in my thinking is pretty presumptuous don't you think?
You do realize that there are others in the scientific arena that feel as I do? There are those that make the same claim that the evidence in our universe supports design. In fact, there have been some scientists that were once atheists/agnostics that due to the evidence of which I speak have come to the same conclusions as I do.
It would appear to me, the pattern continues.
These people who you have sought to support your position, do not seem to be much different, in how you seek scientists who state this appearance of design, supports your position, and that it is objective.
Never mind, these same scientists, peel back the layers a bit and disagree with your conclusions, but you hang on to an appearance statement, to feed the confirmation bias and then you call it objective, but have failed to show any support that this conclusion can be supported in an objective manner.
Sort of like, the doctor scenario I gave you, in which you ignore the more specific and accurate lab results and default to the doctors opinion, the growth did not appear to be cancerous.
That all being said, I do appreciate that there are those of you that don't agree with me in my positions (Sarah, Diz and bhmte) but do believe that I am not being dishonest.
Who are these varied groups?
I have people that I will go to who hold various worldviews enough and who have been fair minded to any position that I can get a very good feedback on my behavior and others. I have asked people who don't agree with my position per se but have shown fairness to others who don't know me personally to assess my conversations so that I have a wide set of people to determine accuracy in the assessment.
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