Darwinian evolution - still a theory in crisis.

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T17:41:33-0500

The Barbarian said:
Lab technicians, anyway. SS employees. Like Hitler, they were materialists. so transubstantiation was a complete mystery to them.

So if the elements don't change at all -- (including the DNA) -- what or who tipped scientists off to go and steal some consecrated wafers for testing?

Testing what?

And also, why steal from the Catholics? why not steal from the Lutherans, who believe in consubstantiation?

In short, if the Catholics say NO CHANGE, why did scientists look for changes?

Something sounds fishy in Denmark, and I suspect scientists weren't buying the NO CHANGE belief.

Looks to me like they investigated a miracle, expecting to find evidence to the contrary, and got a reality check.

Not once, but many times.

For some odd reason.

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T17:51:18-0500

AV1611VET said:
So if the elements don't change at all -- (including the DNA) -- what or who tipped scientists off to go and steal some consecrated wafers for testing?

SS troops. On orders of Hitler's underlings.

AV1611VET said:
And also, why steal from the Catholics?

Lutherans didn't believe in transubstantiation.

AV1611VET said:
Something sounds fishy in Denmark, and I suspect scientists weren't buying the NO CHANGE belief.

The SS wasn't. Hitler wasn't. You might not know this, but like many far-right people today, Hitler and his bunch were superstitious, believers in weird occult ideas. I think they were hoping to find something physical. But of course, Christians knew better.

Occultism in Nazism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T18:02:49-0500

AV1611VET said:
So if the elements don't change at all -- (including the DNA) -- what or who tipped scientists off to go and steal some consecrated wafers for testing?

The Barbarian said:
SS troops. On orders of Hitler's underlings.

Did you miss in Post 1554, where I said:

From AI Overview:

Scientists last tested a Eucharistic wafer for DNA in 2014, as part of a study comparing genetic material to known samples. The study included consecrated hosts stolen from churches in the US and Canada. According to Church Life Journal, this testing was part of a PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA amplification, a standard laboratory procedure.

I don't think Hitler had any SS troops in 2014.

Ophiolite · 2025-08-19T18:28:53-0500

AV1611VET said:
I don't think Hitler had any SS troops in 2014.

So, you don't subscribe to all conspiracy theories. Suprising!

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T19:13:38-0500

AV1611VET said:
Scientists last tested a Eucharistic wafer for DNA in 2014, as part of a study comparing genetic material to known samples. The study included consecrated hosts stolen from churches in the US and Canada. According to Church Life Journal, this testing was part of a PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) DNA amplification, a standard laboratory procedure.

There is this:

Scientific Analysis of Eucharistic Miracles: Importance of a Standardization in Evaluation

Numerous instances of consecrated communion wafers turning into human tissue and blood have been reported throughout history and the contemporary international media, referred to as Eucharistic miracles. Various suggestions have been put forth to explain such phenomena, ranging from miraculous...

www.forensicscijournal.com

But it doesn't seem to fit your expectations. In fact, the Church points out that the nature of transubstantiation would not be detectable by any scientific methodology.

The concept of substance and species (sometimes tightened into "substance and accident" is that the bread and wine retains all the properties of bread and wine, while it has been changed into a completely different substance.

Hans Blaster · 2025-08-19T19:21:55-0500

The Barbarian said:
But it doesn't seem to fit your expectations. In fact, the Church points out that the nature of transubstantiation would not be detectable by any scientific methodology.

You must take pity on your invisible interlocutor, for he has never taken communion and would not know that it tastes (if you can properly use "taste" to describe the sensation) like bad "bread", not any sort of mammal flesh (human or otherwise).

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T19:23:53-0500

The Barbarian said:
There is this:

From your link:

Numerous instances of consecrated communion wafers turning into human tissue and blood have been reported throughout history and the contemporary international media, referred to as Eucharistic miracles.

So much for transubstantiation then, huh?

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T19:31:05-0500

Hans Blaster said:
You must take pity on your invisible interlocutor, for he has never taken communion and would not know that it tastes (if you can properly use "taste" to describe the sensation) like bad "bread", not any sort of mammal flesh (human or otherwise).

From AI Overview:

In Catholic theology, the bread and wine, after consecration during Mass, are believed to transform into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, a doctrine known as transubstantiation. While the appearance, taste, and texture of the bread and wine remain, their substance is believed to change into the substance of Christ's body and blood.

This has now been substantiated by science.

My question is ... why?

Who called for science to come in and test something they already believe didn't happen?

Oh wait ... scientists stole those wafers.

Nevermind.

FaithT · 2025-08-19T20:19:08-0500

AV1611VET said:
There's some "missing links" that haven't answered their summons yet.

"Police" are out looking for them now.

Nothing detrimental to the theory.

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T20:20:23-0500

AV1611VET said:
So much for transubstantiation then, huh?

That's what Hitler thought. But then he called Christianity a "Jewish fraud."

FaithT · 2025-08-19T20:21:02-0500

AV1611VET said:
From your link:

Numerous instances of consecrated communion wafers turning into human tissue and blood have been reported throughout history and the contemporary international media, referred to as Eucharistic miracles.

So much for transubstantiation then, huh?

Why does that destroy the idea of transubstantiation?

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T20:25:11-0500

AV1611VET said:
My question is ... why?

According to St. Paul, it's what Jesus told His apostles at the Last Supper.
1 Corinthians 10:16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

You may argue that Paul was mistaken, but I don't think so.

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T20:25:54-0500

FaithT said:
Why does that destroy the idea of transubstantiation?

That's a part of the Bible some people don't like.

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T20:26:26-0500

FaithT said:
Why does that destroy the idea of transubstantiation?

Barb said this:

The Barbarian said:
I think a lot of misguided people have tried to use science to disparage Christian faith.

And I'm agreeing with him.

Using the wafer as an example of people using science to disparage Catholicism.

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T20:28:17-0500

The Barbarian said:
According to St. Paul, it's what Jesus told His apostles at the Last Supper.
1 Corinthians 10:16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord?

You may argue that Paul was mistaken, but I don't think so.

I think you're somewhat confused as to what I'm saying.

I'm actually AGREEING with a post you made earlier.

And you seem to want to argue about for some reason.

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T20:29:19-0500

The Barbarian said:
That's a part of the Bible some people don't like.

We see the Lord's Table as one of two ordinances -- not sacraments.

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T20:56:21-0500

AV1611VET said:
We see the Lord's Table as one of two ordinances -- not sacraments.

God doesn't seem to care if anyone doesn't like what He does.

The Barbarian · 2025-08-19T20:57:30-0500

AV1611VET said:
I think you're somewhat confused as to what I'm saying.

Why would I be different than anyone else here?

FaithT · 2025-08-19T21:07:22-0500

AV1611VET said:
From AI Overview:

In Catholic theology, the bread and wine, after consecration during Mass, are believed to transform into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, a doctrine known as transubstantiation. While the appearance, taste, and texture of the bread and wine remain, their substance is believed to change into the substance of Christ's body and blood.

This has now been substantiated by science.

My question is ... why?

Who called for science to come in and test something they already believe didn't happen?

Oh wait ... scientists stole those wafers.

Nevermind.

You’re kind of offensive. Do you know that?

AV1611VET · 2025-08-19T21:15:51-0500

FaithT said:
You’re kind of offensive. Do you know that?

I've been told that from time to time.

Darwinian evolution - still a theory in crisis.

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