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What age is the author of Hebrews referring to then?Where in Scripture does it say that "there was an end of the Jewish age"? Where does it even mention a "Jewish age"? It simply doesn't exist.
I get a bit overwhelmed at lists like that. Can you group them perhaps? #10 is the only one not starting with "when?" But just casting my eye over most of the 15 points, I would say - at the 2nd coming, yet to come. Unless some of the questions relate to Satan being cast out of heaven?I think it is only fair to expect you to answer my questions when I am answering yours.
- When was/is sin eliminated?
- When was/is the sinner eliminated?
- When was/is death eliminated?
- When was/is corruption eliminated?
- When was/is Satan eliminated?
- When was/is marriage eliminated?
- When was/is perfect righteousness introduced?
- When was/is peace and perfection finally introduced?
- When was/is incorruption introduced
- Are we still living in an "evil age" or not?
- When does crying stop?
- When does pain stop?
- When does sorrow stop?
- When does curse finish?
- When was/is all rule, authority and power finally put down?
There was an end to the old covenant - namely the cross. Where in Scripture does it say that "there was an end of the Jewish age"? Where does it even mention a "Jewish age"? It simply doesn't exist.
The last days are never limited to the Jews or to a "Jewish age." Where do you get that? The sacred text teaches the opposite! It relates to the Gospel going out to the nations (Isa 2 and Micah 4).
As I have shown you, the change from old corrupt age to the new perfect age occurs at the second coming. You are yet to address all my biblical support demonstrating that.
I refer you back to the sacred text that you have not exegeted.
It mentions this when it says that in the "last days" the new age would be ushered in where Gentiles were reconciled and a new covenant would be established. So out with the old, in with the new.
The last days were referred to as when the prophecies would take place. If we're in those last days now, then the prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.
And I have shown you where Jesus defines eternal life and it isn't heaven he's talking about at all. He says it is knowledge of the father. John says knowledge of God is obeying his commandments. So eternal life isn't just heaven and Christ's second coming.
You've decided to believe something and won't accept any other explanation even from the text itself. Paul wrote there is more than one age to come 2000 years ago.
I get a bit overwhelmed at lists like that. Can you group them perhaps? #10 is the only one not starting with "when?" But just casting my eye over most of the 15 points, I would say - at the 2nd coming, yet to come. Unless some of the questions relate to Satan being cast out of heaven?
All I am getting from you is personal opinion and inference. Can you give, and exegete, the inspired text?
I am merely referring to scriptures already posted. That you won't consider them does not cause in me a requirement to repeat them again. You are trying to universalize the term age and apply it to heaven alone every time the term or word is written. This is improper exegeses. You also want the "last days" to have no finality even though I am sure you know that this term implies an end, and the old covenant finally passed away. So the last days in reference to that passing away has to have an end. And since the end occurred and the authors of the new testament indicated that they were in that time witnessing that end, we cannot still be in the same period of last days they were in.
Hebrews 1
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
That word 'worlds' there is the same word translated 'ages' in other places. It isn't a universal word that means the same thing every time it is encountered. Του αιωνον - the ages or, in this case, the worlds.
And Paul here is stating that they lived in a specific, distinct, "last days."
"These last days."
Here he indicates that the prophecies which spoke of last days were "these" in which Jesus spoke.
He's speaking to Jews who were going apostate and trying to return to the old law. So his opening statement is to remind them of the connection of prophecy to the current time and to let them know that this new covenant was the end of the last days spoken of in prophecy. He further drives home this point later.
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
So he says, using perfective participle, that the first covenant is obsolete (and continuing to be obsolete) and then references the future language of the prophecies - "is becoming."
This isn't indicating that there is a future passing away but that the prophecies which were written and pointing to the future "last days" - have been fulfilled.
Peter in his first sermon tells the crowd that what they were witnessing was prophecy which referenced the 'last days' and they were obviously then in those last days.
6 But this [the miraculous work you're seeing right now] is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
17 ‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your young men shall see visions,
Your old men shall dream dreams.
18 And on My menservants and on My maidservants
I will pour out My Spirit in those days;
And they shall prophesy.
19 I will show wonders in heaven above
And signs in the earth beneath:
Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
21 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.’
By definition, we cannot be in the same 'last days' that prophecy spoke about.
We might be in the last days before Christ's second coming but since we know that the Last Day comes as a 'thief in the night' we have no way of knowing how near we really are to that event. It could be another 10,000 years or tomorrow. Only when that event happens will we know whether we're in the last days of the Last Day.
Clearly, we're in the in-between age of the 'last days' spoken of in prophecy and Christ's return. The age we live in now is not the eternal heavenly age which begins after the 'Last Day' though Christ did say that we would have eternal life before that Last Day occurred.
I am at a total loss how you came to that conclusion. If you have read any of my posts you will know that I believe that "the last day" of "the last days" is the climactic coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Clearly, if you would actually read my posts you would realize that I have argued that "the last days" were inaugurated by Jesus Christ and will end at His climatic future coming. This does not disprove my position.
You are confusing the change from the old covenant to the new covenant (which actually happened at the cross, not AD70), and wrongly equating that with the last days.
Prove it! You keep expressing your opinions. We are still there!!! He is still pouring out His Spirit on all nations. Prophecy visions dreams continue until Jesus comes again.
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 parallels, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect (or teleios) is come, then that which is in part shall be done away … For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.”
But since they were "the last days" they weren't the beginning days by definition. He brought about the end of the last days as Paul wrote.
The last days of prophecy were the last of days, not the beginning of days as Paul clearly states in Hebrews.
What you are basically saying is that the last days never ended. You don't accept that they ended even though the prophecies were clearly talking about the end of the old covenant.
Paul is talking about the end of spiritual gifts and the ushering in of scripture not the second coming of Christ. In fact, this should be obvious because he does not use a personal pronoun here but a reference to a thing.
The gifts were discontinued and replaced with perfect knowledge - the scriptures.
Clearly, if you would actually read my posts you would realize that I have argued that "the last days" were inaugurated by Jesus Christ and will end at His climatic future coming. This does not disprove my position.
Hello claninja,The 70 week clearly prophesies of and finds its fulfillment in the new covenant and gospel
Daniel 9:24 “Seventy sevens are decreed about your people and your holy city, 1.) to finish the transgression, 2.) to put an end to sin, 3.) and to atone for iniquity, 4.) to bring in everlasting righteousness, 5.) to seal both vision and prophet, 6.) and to anoint a most holy.
All 6 items find their fulfillment in the 70th week, with the death of Christ. For it is Christ who was cut off in the midst of the week in order that the sacrifice and offering would be ended.
Hebrews 10:8-9 In the passage above He says, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings You did not desire, nor did You delight in them” (although they are offered according to the law). Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second.
1.) finish transgression. God redeemed his people from the transgressions committed under the old covenant
Hebrews 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
2.) put an end to sin. Christ put away sin by his sacrifice
Hebrews 9:26 But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
3.) atone for iniquity. Christ is our high priest and atones for our sins.
Hebrews 2:17 or this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people.
4.) Bring in everlasting righteous. The righteous standards of God have forever been fulfilled in those who are in Christ.
Romans 8:3-4 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin.c He thus condemned sin in the flesh, so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5.) Sealing vision and prophet. Christ fulfilled everything written about him in the Law, prophets, and psalms.
Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
6.) annoint the most Holy. Christ is the anointed most Holy.
Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how Jesus went around doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
What were the last days prophecies about? The last days of what?
The last days of time.
Exactly. To suggest that the Messianic period has an ending itself - and not that it brought an end to another period of time - changes the whole New Testament (IMO). That neglects to recognize the enormous impact Christ's incarnation had during His first Advent. His kingdom has no end. He is on the throne of David's now (in my belief):They were an end to something and obviously it wasn't time.
Exactly. To suggest that the Messianic period has an ending itself - and not that it ended another period of time - changes the whole New Testament (IMO). That neglects to recognize the enormous impact Christ's incarnation had during His first Advent.
That's nonsense. The last days of the old covenant were what the prophecies were about and that's what the apostles said they were about. The last days were the days when the old covenant passed away and Jesus arrived to usher in the new covenant. They were an end to something and obviously it wasn't time.
Not so! Where does it mention the "last day" of your "last days"?
Joel 2:27-32 says, “And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed (speaking of the Lord’s first Advent). And it shall come to pass afterward (after Messiah’s appearing), that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit (speaking of the intra-Advent period). And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come (referring expressly to Him climactic Coming). And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call (This is speaking of the eternal rest that pertains to the elect in eternity).”
Please note, this passage relates to the last days period that commenced in scriptural times, includes us now, and will continue until the Second Advent.
The same prophecy that Peter said was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost.
The last days didn't commence, they ended. They were called 'last days' to reference the end of something. That end was the end of the old covenant. If they didn't end, then they weren't the 'last' of anything at all. You are rendering the term 'last days' meaningless by your faulty exegesis.
When did "the last days" commence? What era did they cover? When did they finish?
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