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Jesus's followers for sure. But also many others as well, because when the pharisees plotted to have Jesus arrested they bribed Judas to inform them when he was alone, in fear of what the crowds would do.Hailed as Messiah by whom, though?
Were the disciples in that crowd?
There were many different groups in ancient Jerusalem at that time.....and they all believed different things about Jesus and what the purpose of the Messiah actually was....and what it would look like for Israel to be redeemed or restored at that point (and from what or who).
Show me where Scripture tells us they were there (I've actually not really studied that aspect of that event).Jesus's followers for sure.
v21 established what vision Gabriel was referring to in v23. The vision of the little horn in the time of the end was a prophecy.Again, the focus in Daniel 8:21 is not on the vision that Gabriel explained to Daniel before (which we know is recorded in Daniel 8), it's on the fact that it was Gabriel who was coming to Daniel again to explain another prophecy.
In Luke 19, Jesus riding the donkey, a colt, was riding into Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah. His disciples were with him.Show me where Scripture tells us they were there (I've actually not really studied that aspect of that event).
As I said.....there were many followers up until His arrest.....that's when many scattered and gave up on Jesus. Jesus was received by the crowd that day, but within four days the same crowd that hailed Him as their king would shout out, "Crucify Him." and claim they have no other god but Caesar (John 19:15).In Luke 19, Jesus riding the donkey, a colt, was riding into Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah. His disciples were with him.
37 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
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No, it established who he was talking to, which was the same one who explained the vision to him previously. And that was Gabriel. The vision itself is not at all the focus of Daniel 9:21. Instead, the focus was on Gabriel himself who was identified as being the one who had given Daniel the vision from Daniel 8.v21 established what vision Gabriel was referring to in v23.
That just means no one understood it back then at that time, not that no one would ever understand it without further explanation, as you are assuming.Who is the Prince of princes in Daniel 8:25 that the little horn stands up against, but is not broken by (human) hand?
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
In verse 27, does Daniel indicate he understood the vision of the little horn and the 2300 days? Which he did not. And in Daniel 9, Gabriel gave further information on the vision and prophecy of the little horn.
26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.
Daniel did not understand in Daniel 8 the explanation how the vision fitted into the time of the end.No, it established who he was talking to, which was the same one who explained the vision to him previously. And that was Gabriel.
Where are you reading that it is the same crowd?As I said.....there were many followers up until His arrest.....that's when many scattered and gave up on Jesus. Jesus was received by the crowd that day, but within four days the same crowd that hailed Him as their king would shout out, "Crucify Him." and claim they have no other god but Caesar.
You did not answer the question.that no one would ever understand it without further explanation, as you are assuming.
They were Jesus followers.....right?Where are you reading that it is the same crowd?
There was division regarding Jesus. Jesus after the resurrection appeared to his followers, but not to them who were against him.
Maybe because it wasn't time. The details didn't matter until "the time was right ". Remember the instruction to "seal the prophecy until the time of the end" and how "the end" was far off (in time)? I'm going by memory now.....I'll look for that specific reference.Daniel did not understand in Daniel 8 the explanation how the vision fitted into the time of the end.
time of the end, latter days, latter years is Ezekiel 38-39.If I have my timeline correct.... Daniel was about 600 years before John and Jesus. But Gabriel did come back......and spoke with John the baptizer's father (and with Mary - the mother of Jesus). My belief (along with the Nicene Church) is that's because of the prophetic timeline. It was....."the time of the end"....and John would be paving the way.....preparing the crowds....for their anticipated Messiah.
.....and Daniel 12:4time of the end, latter days, latter years is Ezekiel 38-39.
The 483 years were up at least 20 years before Gabriel came to the parents of Jesus and John. All 490 if continuous, years were up. That is why you have to use the wrong decree to "fix" God's prophetic timeline for God. God never declares the timeline needs to be fixed. It is 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 49 years and 434 years. That is all God declared. No one has to make it perfect.Maybe because it wasn't time. The details didn't matter until "the time was right ". Remember the instruction to "seal the prophecy until the time of the end" and how "the end" was far off (in time)? I'm going by memory now.....I'll look for that specific reference.
Daniel 12:4
But you, Daniel, shut up these words and seal the book until the time of the end.
If I have my timeline correct.... Daniel was about 600 years before John and Jesus. But Gabriel did come back......and spoke with John the baptizer's father (and with Mary - the mother of Jesus). My belief (along with the Nicene Church) is that's because of the prophetic timeline. It was....."the time of the end"....and John would be paving the way.....preparing the crowds....for their anticipated Messiah.
No........The 483 years were up at least 20 years before Gabriel came to the parents of Jesus and John.
It seems that this conclusion begins with the strong belief others are "wrong" so the simple math (and revelations from Scripture) are rejected and dismissed.That is why you have to use the wrong decree to "fix" God's prophetic timeline for God. God never declares the timeline needs to be fixed. It is 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 49 years and 434 years. That is all God declared. No one has to make it perfect
No one (but you) has said anything about "fixing " it. But I'm curious why you're cutting off the last 7 years? The total time given was 7 x 70 = 490 years. You're actually cutting off the whole ministry of Jesus by not including the last seven years. 69 weeks only brings the timeline to 26/27 AD. Why stop there?It is 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 49 years and 434 years. That is all God declared. No one has to make it perfect.
This statement is denial that Jesus of Nazareth was ancient biblical Israel's Messiah.The 483 years were up at least 20 years before Gabriel came to the parents of Jesus and John.
It's amazing to me that you don't recognize that Daniel 9:24-27 is all about Jesus Christ (not some future Antichrist) and what He would accomplish for the people of Israel. He is the one who accomplished all of the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 and He is the one who confirmed the covenant that put an end to the animal sacrifices and sin offerings.The explain away syndrome of them who refuse to acknowledge that the vision in v21-23 is about the little horn time of the end prophecy and vision - is amazing to me.
But it says that the 483 years were going to lead to the appearing of the Messiah. So, how do you reconcile that with your view that the first 483 years (69 weeks) were over already at least 20 years before Jesus was even born?The 483 years were up at least 20 years before Gabriel came to the parents of Jesus and John. All 490 if continuous, years were up. That is why you have to use the wrong decree to "fix" God's prophetic timeline for God. God never declares the timeline needs to be fixed. It is 7 weeks and 62 weeks, or 49 years and 434 years. That is all God declared. No one has to make it perfect.
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