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Daniel 7, Daniel 2, Revelation 13:1-2

Douggg

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The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.
 

RandyPNW

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The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.
I think that's 100% true. The Apostle John took pains to explain that Rome was this final pagan Kingdom of the age even while he was under Roman restraint. And so, John had to use tact and hints to convey this, while at the same time we have to show the same care in dealing with the increased paganism in our formerly Christian societies.

It's important to recognize the pagan elements infiltrating our once-Christian society because I've seen some Christian friends of mine gradually adopt political platforms that favor the liberalization of Christian faith. They are supporting abhorrent pagan practices in the name of "democratic freedoms."

In the interest of pushing back against "Christian bullying," they have begun to support outright evil practices in our society. We need to be made aware of these things in order to preserve our Christian conscience and Christian testimony.

May I add this, even though it may or may not be completely true? In reading about the "fatal wound" of the Beast I'm wondering if it isn't talking about the "death blow" Christianity administered to ancient pagan Rome?

Christianity took over the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Church, but gradually, we've seen a return to ancient Roman paganism. The "wound" seemed to be "healed," and people wondered with amazement, excited that out of Christianity new immoral freedoms are emerging and even "blossoming!"
 
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Benjamin Müller

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My dad believes when it's written in Revelation 17:11 that he's of the seven but he's the eighth, that the EU is the 7th resurrection. He's of the 8th because the EU will most likely fall apart in the coming economic crisis and reform into ten toes so it'll be like an EU 2.0 and that is the 8th. It's a new system, but it's upcycled from the last so it's of the 7th buuuuuuut, it's really the eighth
 
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dfw69

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The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman Empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.
In the future the 10 horns will be formed… they are not formed yet

Only after they are formed will the little horn rise control over then

I believe they will be the 10 lost tribes of Israel that will form during the false messianic age

It is during those days that the stone from heaven falls upon those 10 horns ..

The 10 horns are not the EU but are to be the northern kingdoms from Jerusalem
 
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dfw69

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Even so, come quickly Lord Jesus.
As much as we want Him to come soon to reign over His creation sister it’s not happening soon. …

man cannot up seat Him with their wanting of fulfillment of prophecies. It just doesn’t work that way…not that your implying anything sister

But He comes at the appropriate time to do so

I do however pray for His rapture soon :) We all should be looking forward for that to happen :)

But this old teaching that the EU will somehow fulfill prophecy is just not correct and those expectations afterwards will not manifest because the scriptures are not pointing to the EU

I say this so no one is disappointed when He doesn’t show up to reign anytime soon

And those that will say in the future “He’s here” is lying

It’s really best that people listen to Paul sermon about the end times in 2 Thes 2
And the warnings of Jesus in Matt 24 so that we are not expecting Him to come to reign soon nor the day of the Lord to take place soon
 
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Douggg

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I believe they will be the 10 lost tribes of Israel that will form during the false messianic age

It is during those days that the stone from heaven falls upon those 10 horns ..

The 10 horns are not the EU but are to be the northern kingdoms from Jerusalem
The 10 northern tribes of Israel do not match with Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Revelation 13:1-2, and Revelation 17:17.

Here's why....

In Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2, the legs in the statue that was toppled were made of iron - symbolic of the Roman Empire. The feet of iron mixed with clay indicate a weakened makeup in its final days of the ten toes (ten kings). Some nations of the EU are strong, others are weak.

The ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's Daniel 2 dream are the ten kings of Daniel 7:23-24 that shall arise out of the fourth kingdom - i.e. the Roman empire.

The Roman empire in the end times has materialized itself as the EU.

In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings will hand their EU kingdom over to the beast to become dictator of the EU.
 
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dfw69

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Matt. 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Yes but He said that after all He warns about in the first 43 verses :)
 
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Benjamin Müller

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The 10 Tribes of Israel will most likely be revealed at the end times, but they are not the ten toes. It's the time of Jacob's trouble and Israel will be scattered throughout the nations. The ten toes will be gentile countries. Satan's counterfeit system wants to misdirect people against Israel. So when a High Priest rises over a temple in Jerusalem, they'll most likely call him the false prophet, when he's one of the witnesses. And if he makes calls out to the lost ten tribes, people will say they are the ten toes, but it's the Pope who is the false prophet, and it's 5 nations is east Europe and 5 in west Europe that will be the ten toes. Italy, Germany, Austria, Hungary are at least four I can think of who would be part of EU 2.0.
 
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dfw69

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The 10 northern tribes of Israel do not match with Daniel 2, Daniel 7, Revelation 13:1-2, and Revelation 17:17.

That’s probably because they do not exist yet … but if they did, I think you would agree it’s talking about them … This 10 horn prophecy is in the future


Here's why....

In Nebuchadnezzar's dream in Daniel 2, the legs in the statue that was toppled were made of iron - symbolic of the Roman Empire.
Yes

The feet of iron mixed with clay indicate a weakened makeup in its final days of the ten toes (ten kings).
Yes

Some nations of the EU are strong, others are weak.
But this is an assumption to think its the EU … The vast empire is divided into 10
5 in the east and 5 In the west

But what if it’s something else that will develop in the future? I believe so …

The strong will rule with iron and those that are clay are mold for Gods hands

The ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar's Daniel 2 dream are the ten kings of Daniel 7:23-24 that shall arise out of the fourth kingdom - i.e. the Roman empire.
10 kings implies 10 Kingdoms.. right?
The EU are not 10 kingdoms with 10 kings ruling over them ..right? I understand that it could change in future


The Roman empire in the end times has materialized itself as the EU.

but the Roman Empire can materialize into something else in the future
In Revelation 17:17, the ten kings will hand their EU kingdom over to the beast to become dictator of the EU.
Yes but it’s not necessarily the EU , the land could transform into something else in the future …
 
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dfw69

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The 10 Tribes of Israel will most likely be revealed at the end times,
Ah finally someone sees the possibility…

but they are not the ten toes.
Maybe
It's the time of Jacob's trouble and Israel will be scattered throughout the nations.
Yes

The ten toes will be gentile countries.
Yes but let me show you another possibility …

the 10 toes are gentile kingdoms or states but also they will identify themselves as the 10 tribes of Israel … kinda like armstrongism

So it’s not entirely impossible to believe that they would identify themselves as Israelites….

Satan's counterfeit system wants to misdirect people against Israel.
Please provide an explanation of the counterfeit system?

Like Gentiles wanting to be Israelites ?

So when a High Priest rises over a temple in Jerusalem, they'll most likely call him the false prophet,
He will most likely be called a false messiah as they anoint a priest into office

when he's one of the witnesses.
This High Priest you mentioned will be one of the witnesses of Jesus or a witness to something else?

And if he makes calls out to the lost ten tribes, people will say they are the ten toes,
Yes but I’m open to other possibilities…

You mentioned a call out to the lost ten tribes …Is it the high priest who determine who is of what tribe?

And how would that call be performed?

but it's the Pope who is the false prophet,
The pope is not a threat to Judaism nor Jerusalem


and it's 5 nations is east Europe and 5 in west Europe that will be the ten toes.
In the future that land can change its borders and even names to transform into 10 vast territories

Italy, Germany, Austria, Hungary are at least four I can think of who would be part of EU 2.0.
The vast territory of the old Roman Empire holds more than 10 countries within its borders

EU 2.0 will not fulfill prophecy…
 
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Benjamin Müller

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Ah finally someone sees the possibility…

Ezekiel 11:15 Honestly, I think it's more than a possibility. I think it WILL happen.
the 10 toes are gentile kingdoms or states but also they will identify themselves as the 10 tribes of Israel … kinda like armstrongism
Ah! Well, I believe armstrongism, although I don't really read that work. I read Yair Davidiy's from britam.org


Do you know of Jonathan Cahn? He likens these end days of America to the House of Israel which I know is more than a coincidence, even if he doesn't understand. Americans; British; Canadians; Australians; French, they will be taken into captivity during the time of Jacob's trouble. If not captivity then they will be occupied by the Assyrian (Germanic) forces.


Yair Davidiy identifies Assyria with Austria, and Hitler was Austrian, if you remember. . . . and Nahum identifies the beast power with Nineveh/Assyria. The Beast Power will most likely come from Austria, though I suppose he could come from Germany.
Please provide an explanation of the counterfeit system?
Satan has set up counterfeit religion(s) to divert from the True God. Not every denomination out there is under the umbrella of salvation because those religions are tainted with paganism and many stem from the Babylonian Mystery Religion. God commands do not as the heathen do, for what they do I hate, yet people still do it and claim to be serving and loving God while brazenly rebelling against His command.

Jesus Christ told Peter that he had prayed for him because Satan wanted to have him. (Luke 22:31-32) Peter led the Church in Jerusalem and yet the counterfeit system has Peter in Rome--where Satan dwells, according to Rev. 2:13


Catholicism is just one counterfeit system. All counterfeits looks like the real thing, sound like the real thing, feels like the real thing, but they are not the real thing.
Like Gentiles wanting to be Israelites ?
Gentiles can be grafted in.
This High Priest you mentioned will be one of the witnesses of Jesus or a witness to something else?
One of the Two Witnesses of Revelation and Zechariah.

Is it the high priest who determine who is of what tribe?
For the sake of temple ceremony, I believe the High Priest would have an important role in indenifiying the tribes. Only Levi can serve in the temple, but others in administration, outside of the temple could determine it as well.
And how would that call be performed?
The Exodus and End Times are book ends. Israel was brought forth out of Egypt by a strong hand. God using Moses and Aaron: a civil servant (for lack of better term) and a high priest. Zechariah 3-4 indicates the two witnesses are also a civil servant and a high priest. Isaiah 52:4 identifies the Pharaoh of the oppression (and by extension the Exodus) as Assyrian. Nahum identifies the best power as Assyrian. Isaiah 10 recounts that Assyria is the rod of my indignation.

In the end times Israel is not Egypt, but the whole world, because the whole world has become a spiritual Egypt. God send his two witnesses in like manner of Moses and Aaron, to bring forth the children of Israel out of the world and back into their inheritance. Whether they agree with Armstronism; British-Israelism; or Yair Davidiy, I don't know.

While Christ was preaching He said He had not been sent except to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Christ isn't returning to redeem the world; He is coming to redeem the children of Israel and any Gentile who is grafted in and obedient to God and the laws of His kingdom.
The pope is not a threat to Judaism nor Jerusalem
We'll have to disagree on that. The Pope with the Beast Power, are threats against us, in multiple ways.
In the future that land can change its borders and even names to transform into 10 vast territories
It's ten nations in Europe, however they join, however they manifest, I don't know, but it's 5 countries from the west and 5 from the east. The ten toes are divided between two legs. This is symbolic of the Great Schism of 1054.
 
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dfw69

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Ezekiel 11:15 Honestly, I think it's more than a possibility. I think it WILL happen.

I agree …only the true Israelites will be those who will be sealed at the appointed time ….

There is the saints of god who keep the commandments of God and testify of Jesus which will include any word given to them and the gospel message as well as the hope of His return to reign in Jerusalem… they are called saints not Israelites

And in the future it is prophecied that they will be persecuted . Because that type of message will be suppressed by mystery Babylon
Ah! Well, I believe armstrongism, although I don't really read that work. I read Yair Davidiy's from britam.org

I don’t believe in that type of thinking …

But this is where I can see a possibility of the Ten horns , which are gentiles in nature but will identify themselves as Israelites

Do you know of Jonathan Cahn?
No
He likens these end days of America to the House of Israel which I know is more than a coincidence, even if he doesn't understand.
America is not the house of Israel


Americans; British; Canadians; Australians; French, they will be taken into captivity during the time of Jacob's trouble.
This is false and here’s why …the time of jacobs trouble starts in Jerusalem .All the prophecies point to Jerusalem in some way

Why?

Because the throne of David belongs to Jesus and Satan is trying to prevent His take over of what is rightfully His



If not captivity then they will be occupied by the Assyrian (Germanic) forces.

This is not true either … Germany is not the land of Assyria



Yair Davidiy identifies Assyria with Austria, and Hitler was Austrian, if you remember

This type of thinking will have you walking into false prophecies :)

. . . . and Nahum identifies the beast power with Nineveh/Assyria.

Ok
The Beast Power will most likely come from Austria, though I suppose he could come from Germany.
Again false prophecies

Satan has set up counterfeit religion(s) to divert from the True God.

I see
Not every denomination out there is under the umbrella of salvation
True
because those religions are tainted with paganism

Easter, Christmas , all the holidays that are not the feast of the Lord is paganism?

It’s harmless… I don’t see people going to hell because they have an Easter hunt for thier children to eat candy

Salvation is more that Easter egg hunting and opening presents on Christmas Day

It’s the faith .. it’s the love .. it’s the mercy ..it’s the treatment unto others that matter most to God

A human trafficker and all those involved are going to hell
A person dressed in a Halloween costume for candy is not …

and many stem from the Babylonian Mystery Religion.
Idolatry such as idol worship to sacrifice children .. orgy practicing..laws created for abortions poisoning food /water population control weather manipulation gene altering vaccinations satanism and every evil doctrine …the evil list goes on and on that comes from Mystery Babylon

God commands do not as the heathen do, for what they do I hate,
Yes do not believe in mystery Babylon’s evil ways to commit any of the different manifestations of evils upon mankind for whatever agenda they believe is true and worthy to pursue at all cost

God sees those things hidden in darkness…


yet people still do it and claim to be serving and loving God while brazenly rebelling against His command.

Do you really know who the enemies of God are?… I can give you a hint ..It’s not the candy loving Halloween costume people knocking on your door saying trick or treat …

Jesus Christ told Peter that he had prayed for him because Satan wanted to have him. (Luke 22:31-32)
Thank God he didn’t kill himself in shame for denying His Father 3 times unlike Judas did … the poor soul ..satan got to Judas


Peter led the Church in Jerusalem and yet the counterfeit system has Peter in Rome--where Satan dwells, according to Rev. 2:13
Satan seat at that time was located in pergamos in Asia Minor ..not Rome

But yes I see many things wrong with the Roman church but is it mystery Babylon? Nope

Mystery Babylon is yet to be manifested she will come from the land of Shinar Zech 5


Catholicism is just one counterfeit system.
Yes
All counterfeits looks like the real thing,
Yes
sound like the real thing, feels like the real thing, but they are not the real thing.
True

So what is the real thing? Armstrongism?

No seriously… who holds the true doctrine of Jesus ?
Who hold the true doctrine of God?
What is the real thing?
Gentiles can be grafted in.

Grafted into the promises
Grafted In Christ
it’s already done

We are grafted into the promises ..not into becoming the Israelites

There is no Jew in Christ
There is no gentile
We do not need to be identified in this way anymore

We are now the children of God

We are Abraham’s children through adoption of Christ and heirs according to the promise


One of the Two Witnesses of Revelation and Zechariah.
I believe they will be Elijah and Enoch


For the sake of temple ceremony, I believe the High Priest would have an important role in indenifiying the tribes. Only Levi can serve in the temple, but others in administration, outside of the temple could determine it as well.

In revelation the saints who are persecuted are identified as only keeping the commandments and testifying of Jesus with no mention of them being called Israelites …

It really is an assumption to assume they are in fact Israelites…

As for the Israelites in the last days … only in revelation 7:3-8 do we have the sealing of the servants of God by an angel from the east…the Israelites may not exist until that moment and the 10 horns will be a copy cat

The Exodus and End Times are book ends. Israel was brought forth out of Egypt by a strong hand. God using Moses and Aaron: a civil servant (for lack of better term) and a high priest. Zechariah 3-4 indicates the two witnesses are also a civil servant and a high priest.
But was Arron a high priest at the time of the exodus? When did his office start ?

In Rev it is said that they are 2 prophets
Enoch and Elijah were both prophets

Isaiah 52:4 identifies the Pharaoh of the oppression (and by extension the Exodus) as Assyrian. Nahum identifies the best power as Assyrian. Isaiah 10 recounts that Assyria is the rod of my indignation.
Yes
In the end times Israel is not Egypt, but the whole world, because the whole world has become a spiritual Egypt.

I can see this happening in the future during a false messianic age but they are only identifying themselves as Israelites and not necessarily be true Israelites
God send his two witnesses in like manner of Moses and Aaron, to bring forth the children of Israel out of the world and back into their inheritance. Whether they agree with Armstronism; British-Israelism; or Yair Davidiy, I don't know.
But that is not how rev says it takes place it says the 2 witnesses are killed and they are resurrected and go up with no mention of them gathering or calling out of spiritual Egypt ….

And spiritual Egypt is Jerusalem according to scripture Rev 8:11 so if anything they are calling them out of Jerusalem… possibly to flee to the mountains in light of what’s coming next ..

The call for the scattered elect will come from Jesus who returns and sends forth his angels to gather them …

While Christ was preaching He said He had not been sent except to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.
Yes amen
Christ isn't returning to redeem the world; He is coming to redeem the children of Israel and any Gentile who is grafted in and obedient to God and the laws of His kingdom.
Well it says he comes for the elected ,the chosen , the sheep …how they are to be chosen remains to be seen but Matt 25 gives clues …

It is for their treatment upon His brothers and sisters in Matt 25:40


We'll have to disagree on that. The Pope with the Beast Power, are threats against us, in multiple ways.
Ok
It's ten nations in Europe, however they join, however they manifest, I don't know, but it's 5 countries from the west and 5 from the east. The ten toes are divided between two legs. This is symbolic of the Great Schism of 1054.
Yes but the old Roman Empire territory was vast and as of right now there are multiple nations within those borders .. the 10 EU is but a fraction of the nations inside the old Roman Empire territory which means some form of transformation takes place in the future to make it only 10 to fulfill prophecy in the last days

At its peak, the Roman Empire spanned from Britain, down to North Africa, and east to Turkey. In modern times, this includes 40-50 different countries, including those only partially conquered by Romans.
 
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dfw69

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Well, I could argue that you as well would be following false prophecies. I have nothing further to discuss if you reject British Israelism.
I see well thanks again for your replies ..I appreciate you …

I enjoyed your last response , thanks for being honest in your replies

I hope I did not offend you in any way …I was just trying to make my points on my beliefs

Have a blessed day Benjamin and thanks again brother …peace :)
 
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Benjamin Müller

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I hope I did not offend you in any way …I was just trying to make my points on my beliefs
:)
I disagreed with much of your post, especially in regards to your defense of Christmas and Easter--not just Armstrongism / British Israelism. I felt it was best to stop before we did offend each other. Blessed are the peace makers.
 
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Tigger Boy

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I think that's 100% true. The Apostle John took pains to explain that Rome was this final pagan Kingdom of the age even while he was under Roman restraint. And so, John had to use tact and hints to convey this, while at the same time we have to show the same care in dealing with the increased paganism in our formerly Christian societies.

It's important to recognize the pagan elements infiltrating our once-Christian society because I've seen some Christian friends of mine gradually adopt political platforms that favor the liberalization of Christian faith. They are supporting abhorrent pagan practices in the name of "democratic freedoms."

In the interest of pushing back against "Christian bullying," they have begun to support outright evil practices in our society. We need to be made aware of these things in order to preserve our Christian conscience and Christian testimony.

May I add this, even though it may or may not be completely true? In reading about the "fatal wound" of the Beast I'm wondering if it isn't talking about the "death blow" Christianity administered to ancient pagan Rome?

Christianity took over the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Church, but gradually, we've seen a return to ancient Roman paganism. The "wound" seemed to be "healed," and people wondered with amazement, excited that out of Christianity new immoral freedoms are emerging and even "blossoming!"
The Daniel 7 dream that Daniel had, and the Daniel 2 dream that Nebuchadnezzar had, and the Revelation 13:1-2 composite description of the beast coming out of the sea, John was shown - all match.

Babylonian empire
Medes-Persian empire
Greek empire
Roman empire

The EU is the Roman empire materialized in the end times. The EEC (European Economic Community) that became the EU (European Union) was founded by the 1957 treaty of Rome.

The ten kings and the Daniel 7 and Daniel 8 little horn will come out of the EU.
Doug, Yes, I will agree that Dan.2, and 7, prophecies reveal the four kingdoms as you have them listed in their proper chronological order. I do not agree that composite beast in Rev. 13: 1-2, is the Roman Empire. With that said, the only matching descriptives shared with the composite beast and the fourth beast of Dan.7, is both beast have ten horns. You and I both have one head and two ears, but that does not make us the same person. In regard to the composite beast it has many more descriptives, I don't think it wise to ignore them and expect to arrive at it's correct identity. What do you understand the seven heads to symbolize, and the one that seemed to have a fatal wound that was healed before it comes up out of the sea?
 
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Douggg

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Doug, Yes, I will agree that Dan.2, and 7, prophecies reveal the four kingdoms as you have them listed in their proper chronological order. I do not agree that composite beast in Rev. 13: 1-2, is the Roman Empire. With that said, the only matching descriptives shared with the composite beast and the fourth beast of Dan.7, is both beast have ten horns. You and I both have one head and two ears, but that does not make us the same person. In regard to the composite beast it has many more descriptives, I don't think it wise to ignore them and expect to arrive at it's correct identity. What do you understand the seven heads to symbolize, and the one that seemed to have a fatal wound that was healed before it comes up out of the sea?
Revelation 17 - timestamp status - first century
seven heads - no crowns (end times completion)
ten horns - no crowns (end times completion)

Revelation 12 - timestamp status - end times, the 7 years before Jesus returns.
seven heads - crowns (seven kings completion)
ten horns - no crowns

Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

In Revelation 13, the seven heads are seven sequential kings of the fourth kingdom, which that kingdom is in Daniel 7 - the Roman Empire, which in the end times is represented by the EU. They are the seven sequential kings of Revelation 17:10. They are kings of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.

Revelation 12 and Revelation 13 in the above comparison table, I made, are time stamped the end times.

In Revelation 13, with 42 months left in the 7 years, King 7 the little horn person will have been killed and brought back to life as King 8, the beast king of Revelation 17:11.

The seven sequential kings of Revelation 17:10 are...

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the end times little horn (leader over the ten EU kings, leaders)

8. the beast king (the little horn after he is killed and brought back to life)

He is called the beast king in Revelation 17:11, because in the mystery about the scarlet colored beast, Satan, in Revelation 17, addressed in Revelation 17:8 - 17:8a is talking about the garden of eden serpent beast who was used by Satan. The garden of eden serpent beast became a disembodied spirit upon physically dying, his body disintegrating. He was and is not, and is in the bottomless pit at present -to someday be allowed to come out and possess - the mortally wounded but healed head king in Revelation 13.

There are no crowns on the 7 heads in Revelation 13, because that king 7 has been killed - the prophecy of the 7 kings of Revelation 17:10 is over at that point.

The beast coming out of the sea, as whole, in Revelation 13, having the composite makeup - is the end times kingdom of the beast king and the ten kings (horns with crowns) that will rule with him. That kingdom will be the EU in its final stage. The beast king will be dictator of it (Revelation 17:17).

Here is a graphic I made of the beast coming out the sea. The composite makeup is because the EU with 42 months left in the 7 years will have gained control of the terrilories once held by the Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, empires. Basically, they will control all the oil in the middle east and parts of Africa. Which will be a critical factor, considering it is the life blood of nations, toward the end of the seven years - which forces the kings of the south, the north, and east (Revelation 16:12) to attack the beast king in Daniel 11:40-45 - as the beast king will be funneling the precious resource to the EU and the western nations who will be allied with the EU.



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Tigger Boy

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Revelation 13 - timestamp status - end times, 42 months before Jesus returns
seven heads - no crowns. one head mortally wounded but healed - the beast king.
ten horns - crowns (to rule with the beast king).

In Revelation 13, the seven heads are seven sequential kings of the fourth kingdom, which that kingdom is in Daniel 7 - the Roman Empire, which in the end times is represented by the EU. They are the seven sequential kings of Revelation 17:10. They are kings of the Julio-Claudian bloodline.
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Douggg, Appreciate your response. A lot to unpack. Our understanding of these prophecies vary greatly, and I'm not under the illusion that what I share will change your thinking, but nonetheless it's interesting to understand what others believe and how they arrive at it.

ln this post I will focus on your quotes, and share my understanding of the seven heads and the ten horns of Rev.13, composite beast. To start off we both agree that the 42 months are literal, and not a symbolic day for a year as most expositor interpret it, and it does occur just before the return of Christ. While speaking of time I believe God has a law/hermeneutic as to how to translate time within apocalyptic prophecy. It is: all time prophecy being fulfilled during the operation of the Jubilee calendar, (1437 B.C-1994) is symbolic, translated day/year, otherwise it is literate time. Since Rev. 13, is a future advent and well based the close of the Jubilee calendar (1994) it is therefore literal time.

I believe to properly understand what causes this composite beast to rise up out of the sea, one needs to understand the conditions on planet earth at the time. So I will go back in Rev. earlier chapters and share what I believe prophecy reveals. I will skip over the seals and start with the trumpet judgements in Chapter 8. They start the tribulation, and were predetermined by Father at the foundation of earths creation,
as a part of the plan of salvation. Whereas Jesus began the judgement of the dead in 1844, which still is ongoing, the living who shall experience the tribulation shall bring judgement upon themselves by whom they choose to worship, The Lamb/Christ or the Lamb like beast/Satan. God will put the earth in survival mode in order that all will seriously consider their need of a savior. The trumpets are redemptive judgements in which only one third of His wrath will be poured out, and the offer of salvation remains open for 1260 days. Whereas, the seven last vile/ bowl judgements are punitive and are poured out in full measure (Rev.14:9&10) on the wicked who have chosen to worship the devil and receive his mark.

God gave to Israel, His early trustees of the gospel, a model in the form of the earthly sanctuary, on how the plan of salvation would be implemented. The sanctuary was an exact model of the heavenly, but much smaller. And all the services pointed to how God would save fallen mankind. It had two alters, the brazen alter out in the courtyard, for individuals to confess their sins, and apply the sacrificial blood on the horns of the altar, and the golden altar of incense located in the Holy Place before the veil, that separated it from the Most Holy Place. Daily, morning and evening a priest would offered a year old perfect lamb, at the brazen alter, and apply it's blood on the horns of the golden alter of incense, along with a special incense. This model demonstrates that God intercedes for mankind on two levels, Corporate and individual.

Why two levels? Within the camp of Israel, God's presence rested over the mercy seat within the Most Holy place. In His mercy toward individuals within the camp of which there were thousands, each of the twelve tribes were only allowed a certain window of time for access to the sanctuary to make personnel confession of sin and have their guilt transferred by the blood of their sacrificial offering to the brazen altar. In the meantime the "Daily" was being conducted morning and evening continually at the golden altar of incense. It was the corporate, Daily sacrifices that kept the wrath of almighty God from destroying individual who had not yet transferred their sins to the sanctuary.

On the tenth day of their seventh month, (a religious year of seven months. Similar to a nine month school year) The Day of Atonement took place. The most solemn day of the religious year. On that day, the sanctuary was cleansed of the accumulated guilt that had been transferred there by individuals. Individuals who had not transferred their sins into the sanctuary prior to the Day of Atonement were cut off from the camp. God in His love for individuals, put in place a service that would alert the people of the coming Day of Atonement/judgementTh, so nobody would be caught off guard to its approach. It was called the Feast Of Trumpets. For nine consecutive days prior to the Day Of Atonement the priest would blow trumpets morning and evening. In essence they were a warning, get ready! get ready! judgement is coming.

With this understanding in mind, please read (Rev. 8: 2-12) To understand it correctly it must be understood in a literal sense for three reasons. First: if it were symbolic, the bible must define the symbols. Example, what are people if not people? What are rivers, if not rivers? What is the sun or moon, if not the sun and moon? Second, the physical outcome of each trumpet is consistent with the trumpet judgement itself. Third, the placement of the golden altar of incense, is consistent with the earthly model, as well as the trumpet judgements which will accomplish the same purpose as the Feast of Trumpets, both, giving warning of God's coming judgement.

Let me summarize, John is shown seven angles standing before the thrown of God. He sees another angle ministering at the golden altar of incense before the thrown as well. (Remember the placement of this altar was the same in the earthly sanctuary) John then sees the ministering angle fill the censer with coals from the altar, used for burning incense, and hurled it to the earth. This act by the angle brings an end to corporate intersession for planet earth, therefore, God's redemptive wrath, will begin. So that mankind can know the timing of this event in heavens temple, God has linked literal manifestations on earth by way of, peals of thunder, rumblings, flashing of lightning and a earthquake. These manifestations will occur in the exact chronological order given, to dispute the argument that they are random acts of nature.

What John describes as hail and fire in the first trumpet, we would call a meteor shower. A huge mountain all ablaze, an asteroid, in the second trumpet. A great star blazing like a torch, a large meteorite in the third trumpet. John does not indicate what would cause the sun, moon and stars to go dark in the forth trumpet, but the following article will give us better insight.

This article was published in National Geographic, entitled, "Extinction", in its June 1989 edition. The article proposed the following scenario: "Giant meteorite strikes earth, setting the planet afire. Volcanoes erupt, tsunamis crash into the continents. The sky grows dark for months, perhaps years. Unable to cope with the catastrophic changes in climate, countless species are wiped off the face of the planet." Too, the article suggest that great fires resulting from an asteroid would destroy crops, trees and vegetation. Even worse, wind storms created by the fires would destroy buildings hundreds of miles from the impact. Dust and smoke from the fires would find their way into the jet stream and block much of the Sun's light, thus altering the world's climate and chances of human survival.

This scenario would seem unbelievable for most individuals to ever affect the earth, but if you correctly understand the trumpet judgements you know its only a matter of time. God not only informs us of His coming judgements He also informs us of mans response. That response is revealed in the composite beast rising up out of the sea [peoples, multitudes, nations, languages, Rev.17:15] a global response.

What do the seven heads on the composite beast represent? In Rev. 13:1 we find they have blasphemous names written on them. This indicates they are religious in nature and they are anti-christ. Second, we know that one head was wounded, but the deadly wound was healed when the composite beast comes up from the sea. The head that was wounded is the papacy. There are seven heads, that is, there are seven of the same thing. Because the wounded/healed head represents a religious system (the papacy), the remaining six heads must also represent religious systems.


 
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