Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
3.) 1260 Days from the time Israel flees Judea until the Jesus' Second Coming.

Israel starts fleeing into the wilderness in the first 1260 days of the 7 years in Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Because the Abomination of Desolation idol will be setup on day 1185.

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2.) 1290 Days from the Abomination of Desolation until Jesus' Second Coming.

3.) 1260 Days from the time Israel flees Judea until the Jesus' Second Coming.

You have Israel waiting after the Abomination of Desolation is setup 30 days before they start fleeing. Jesus said don't delay.

Also you have the world making merry and exchanging gifts over the deaths of the two witnesses, near the end of the 7 years, when a third of mankind is being killed, starvation everywhere, sickness and death - makes no sense.

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

Douggg said:
Israel starts fleeing into the wilderness in the first 1260 days of the 7 years in Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Because the Abomination of Desolation idol will be setup on day 1185.

So you think God protects Israel for 1260 Days BUT not all the way until the Second Coming which makes no sense brother. 1260 + 1260 = 2520, either God starts protecting them at the 1260 mark all the way until the end or God doesn't protect them until the end and thus they would be killed. One of these days brother its going to KICK IN and you are going to get it, everything is designed around the 1260 DAY EVENT, or the Middle of the Week. The AOD is set up on the 1290, the scriptures tell us that in Dan. ch. 12, stop overlooking that fact brother.

Douggg said:
You have Israel waiting after the Abomination of Desolation is setup 30 days before they start fleeing. Jesus said don't delay.

No, I have Israel as having 30 days to GET OUT and after the 30 days Anti-Christ will be RELEASED to come forth, then he conquers Jerusalem/Israel and more than likely the whole Mediterranean Sea Region as in the MANY he has deals with in Dan. ch 8 and Dan. ch. 9

Dan. 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan. 9: 27 And he shall confirm the covenant (Peace AGREEMENTS)with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So I have Israel as having 30 days, which makes PERFECT SENSE when we think about it. If the Anti-Christ Conquered Jerusalem first and then set up the Abomination of Desolation then how could Israel ESCAPE? You see, that hit me when God/Holy Spirit revealed this unto me a week or so ago !! Of course !! Eureka !! Jerusalem is conquered after the Abomination of Desolation is set up, thus when Israel SEES THAT EVENT, they still have 30 days to Flee and only those who heed Jesus Christs voice will FLEE JUDEA, those doubting Jews will be in for a sad awakening. Only a 1/3 of all living Jews Flee, I realize some will probably no doubt still be in other countries like the USA, but those who have REPENTED hear and understand, those who do not repent will not heed those words Jesus uttered will they brother. BUT....All Israel will be SAVED or preserved as the Holy Word says, thus the seed of Israel will survive into the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Douggg said:
Also you have the world making merry and exchanging gifts over the deaths of the two witnesses, near the end of the 7 years, when a third of mankind is being killed, starvation everywhere, sickness and death - makes no sense.

Because they think the Two-witnesses death will STOP THE PLAGUES !!

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
So you think God protects Israel for 1260 Days BUT not all the way until the Second Coming

The Jews flee beginning with the AoD idol setup on day 1185. Which is 1335 days before Jesus returns. How are you getting only 1260 days from that?

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Because they think the Two-witnesses death will STOP THE PLAGUES !!

In Revelation 13, when the world says who can make war against the beast there are 42 months left. In your theory, the same text should say only 75 days left.

DavidPT · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Of course this assumption would be incorrect because I put forth that starting in verse 36 everything that follows or until Dan. 12:12 is eschatology (at the time it was written almost all of it was eschatology of course, but everything before verse 36 has come to pass already.)

So its via Bible study and prayer that I come to all conclusions from Dan. 11:36 on in my OP. Now you are allowed to differ, but I think my argument will win the day, that is why I placed it in the post.

We shall see what you have to say.........Yippee. I think with a quick browse I already see where you made a WRONG TURN, but I will read in full before citing my opinions.

I don't now why you reversed the way the Scriptures are, unless your in China, but it is what it is I guess you thought your "point" would be noticed more. I notice all points or I don't reply, I do not half step. Nevertheless !! Here;s my counter observation:

If you read my post you would know that's exactly what I stated in this QUOTE FROM MY ABOVE ORIGINAL POST just aver verse 40 !! :

"The king of the south will come (push at) against the king of the north. This means the king being mentioned in verse 36 is the King of the North. I think the reason it was not mentioned there is Gabriel/God did not want to confuse us as to that king still being a pat of the Syrian Wars, we have moved on unto the end times. Now that Gabriel has made that clear in verse 36 he needs to describe these kings as per who they are again. The king of the north was of the Syrian part of the Greek Empire which of course eventually became a part of the Roman Empire (Fourth Beast)."

Now as per to to WHAT KING, lets look at it: But I already know where you are going and you are of course incorrect.

No it is not, its obvious you do not understand Dan. ch. 11, and not any people do. You have to be careful not to let singular verses persuade you without backing it up, here a little there a little. For instance, in verses 5 and 6 we could tale this to be END TIMES if we did not follow all of the pertinent clues available, because it clearly states, "in the end of years"....... But of course its speaking about a SPECIFIC KINGS Years in this instance !!

5 And the king of the south shall be strong, and one of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion shall be a great dominion.

6 And in the end of years they shall join themselves together; for the king's daughter of the south shall come to the king of the north to make an agreement: but she shall not retain the power of the arm; neither shall he stand, nor his arm: but she shall be given up, and they that brought her, and he that begat her, and he that strengthened her in these times.

So the total clues must be taken into account in EACH INSTANCE and this is where you run off the tracks a wee bit. Of course I image (no proof, just an assumption) that you are one of those that believe erroneously that the Abomination of Desolation was of Antiochus Epiphanes and you fell you must "PROTECT THAT THOUGHT PROCESS" to the nth degree, even though its not the Abomination of Desolation Jesus was speaking about. This your equilibrium is thrown off by a previous bias, and that's a blind spot my brother.

So NO, its not obvious that the King in verse 36 is the King in verse 27 because it is not a fact at all, it a bogus assumption with no facts to back it up !!

You take a single verse and without using all the clues you think is END TIME because of it speaking about the end of their Kingdoms !!

27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed (SEE VS. 29).

Neither one succeeded in defeating or ensnaring the other King in his "TRAP". Both dealt deceitfully with EACH OTHER, but it shall NOT PROSPER meaning neither King shall defeat the other king at that point in time, the end shall be at the time appointed (or in other words the end will go the way God as intended it to go in both of THEIR KINGDOMS, not via the design of their hearts. Just like in verse 6 it has nothing to do with the END TIMES !!

And which way did it eventually go brother? The Alexandrians appointed Ptolemy the VII thus it went according to Gods plan, not Antiochus Epiphanes plan nor Ptolemy the VI plan came to pass, as I showed above.........SEE BELOW NOW:

Watching Antiochus Epiphanes operate must have been enthralling back in the day. He pretended to support Ptolemy VI his blood kin, and he pretended to have his best interest in mind, but the truth is he was pitting him against his own brother Ptolemy VII the whole time. Ptolemy VII was of course made king of Egypt by the Alexandrians who did not trust Ptolemy VI any longer.

Now lets revisit a couple more points I made above to DRIVE THIS POINT HOME !! Lets look at ALL THE CLUES not just a singular verse with "FOR YET THE END SHALL BE AT THE TIME APPOINTED ." Antiochus returned to Jerusalem and then to his homeland before returning to Egypt, so the end of both of the Kings involved in lying to each other was not at that PRESENT TIME, the end of both would be LATER ON, at a time appointed by God. Antiochus LEFT EGYPT, SEE BELOW:

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

Antiochus Epiphanes returned north it seems because of a rumor that he had died. That rumor seemingly caused a war to breakout in Jerusalem. Antiochus Epiphanes plundered the temple of God, killed many people, then journeyed north to Antioch. (his homeland)

29 At the time appointed ( GET IT NOW? ) he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

Antiochus Epiphanes soon returned to Egypt with the intention of conquering Alexanderia. The Egyptians however sent a message to Rome asking for help. Three Roman senators were sent by ship to inform Antiochus Epiphanes that he was not to invade Egypt and to demand that he retreat immediately. This of course made him angry and he seems to have taken it out on the Jewish believers. He killed them but allowed the Hellenistic Jews to live as long as they forsook the Holy Covenant !! He was indeed a vile man, seemingly a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ/Beast in some of his mannerisms.

So your whole...... "for yet the end shall be at the time appointed" has been misconstrued by you and of course many others because you do not put ALL OF THE CLUES together !! Then you seemingly can't take correction well either. Its your way or the highway. What it bout it being Gods Way brother, and the facts is all that matters? Here a little, there a little, line upon line.

See vs 29 where it says AT THE TIME APPOINTED he shall return? This is Daniel saying God has an appointed ending for Antiochus. Its about the END OF HIS KINGDOM, not the END TIMES !! Case solved, clues used accordingly.

No we do not, because Antiochis Epiphanes will not be alive when verse 35 comes to pass. Antiochus was a VILE PERSON, but he was not the coming Anti-Christ, just a forerunner of sorts.

And I stated that in my OP. I have a felling you replied without actually reading the OP. Bit of course the King of the North in Verse 36 is the coming Anti-Christ, not Antiochus Epiphanes as I have proven above. You just have your wires crossed a wee bit.

This King of the North comes from the E.U. this he pushes South, East and towards Israel. hes born in Greece and come to power in the E.U. from Turkish parents or grandparents. (Assyrian) Why does God give me these things? Why does H give things to any man? Its His purpose to give unto those of us He chooses and to those who seek truth I suppose.

NO..........watch this !! Here is where Gabriel is speaking about the FUTURE Anti-Christ and the APPOINTED TOME OF THE END !! The King that Arises out of Greece and in the E.U.

After Antiochus, its ALL ROME from there on out until the LAST KING comes forth out of Greece. And thus Gabriel tells us of Israels plight all the way unto the END TIMES !!

33 And they that understand (Paul, Peter, Matthew etc. etc.) among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days (Church Age Saints/Many were Jewish).

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help (Holy Spirit): but many shall cleave to them with flatteries (Satan's LIES). 35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white (CHURCH/Saints), even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed

The Church/Jewish Saints will be TRIED, Purged in the fire, made White by Jesus' Holy blood !! All the way unto the END..........Then verse 35 kicks in Brother !!

The END TIME King, the Little Horn, the Anti-Christ, the coming BEAST !!

I think outside the box, so I reversed the order to illustrate that verse 45 connects to verse 21. If I am wrong about that and that you are correct instead, that should mean that you should be able to show with the text what eventually becomes of the vile person in verse 21. As of verse 21 the vile person is a key player in the prophecy. So what becomes of him then, according to the text in Daniel 11, if verse 45 is not what becomes of him? Unless you can show with the text what becomes of the vile person in verse 21, all you're doing is attempting to make some parts seemingly fit with all these theories you have found via the sources you searched through on the net.

I haven't put any names to any of these. All I did was show the connections. You instead conclude the vile person in verse 21 is meaning Antiochus, while the king in verse 36 is meaning the future AC. Yet it can't be both if the the vile person in verse 21, and the king in verse 36, that these are one and the same.

So once again, if you still insist you are correct, then show with the text in Daniel 11 what becomes of the vile person in verse 21? I already showed with the text what becomes of him, that being verse 45. Now your turn.

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

Douggg said:
The Jews flee beginning with the AoD idol setup on day 1185. Which is 1335 days before Jesus returns. How are you getting only 1260 days from that?

So SUPPOSEDLY, God protects Israel from 1185 for 1260 days and thus until day 2445, thus leaving them NOT PROTECTED for the next 75 days according to His own word which says He protects them for ONLY 1260 Days !! Now that is according to your logic, not mine, because the Holy Word says the Abomination of Desolation is set up 1290 days before the Second Coming.

Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

So there will be 1290 days until the Second Coming from the time the AOD is set up. Thus the 1260 must needs come AFTER Israel FLEES at the 1290.

The Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the Week, meaning at the 1260 of 2520 days of the 70th Week. Thus he Conquers Jerusalem 30 DAYS after the Abomination is set up by the FALSE PROPHET, but does this fit Rev. ch 13?Of course it does, the bible starts cascading in TRUTHS once you follow the TRUTHS or understand these TRUTHS !!

Who sets up the AOD or the IMAGE OF THE BEAST? Well Rev. ch. 13 says the False Prophet does. So the Abomination of Desolation is set up 30 days before the Anti-Conquers Jerusalem and thus becomes the Beast. Israel thus has 30 days to Flee Judea !!

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

Douggg said:
In Revelation 13, when the world says who can make war against the beast there are 42 months left. In your theory, the same text should say only 75 days left.

No sir, the 1335 is the Two-Witnesses showing up 75 DAYS BEFORE the Beast Conquers Israel. When the Beast Conquers Israel at the Midway point, there is 1260 days left until the END or Jesus' Second Coming. All you have to do is look at the CHART in the OP and sub in my three point presentation.

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3.)

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

DavidPT said:
I think outside the box, so I reversed the order to illustrate that verse 45 connects to verse 21.

I knew why you did it, but I was going to read it all anyway, IF I REPLY, I have enough respect to read in most cases, unless I am chatting wth someone that is too cra cra to make heads or tails of.

DavidPT said:
If I am wrong about that and that you are correct instead, that should mean that you should be able to show with the text what eventually becomes of the vile person in verse 21. As of verse 21 the vile person is a key player in the prophecy. So what becomes of him then, according to the text in Daniel 11, if verse 45 is not what becomes of him? Unless you can show with the text what becomes of the vile person in verse 21, all you're doing is attempting to make some parts seemingly fit with all these theories you have found via the sources you searched through on the net.

Of course...I though I did that with BOLD in my last post unto you. If you will go back and read the whole chapter, or you can trust me, many times when it switched from one king to the next, like from Ptolemy I to Ptolemy II it simply states, now in the END OF YEARS they joined themselves together by the King of the Souths daughter, thus it means Ptolemy I passes his Kingdom to Ptolemy II or he died and passed it on via death, we could find out via searching through history books, but the Holy Word is not worried about perfected history, its just giving us the Prophetic Lineage so to speak. But I will revisit that which I bolded above and try to be clearer.

Dan. 11:27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Here we have Antiochus Epiphanes and Ptolemy VI trying to defeat each other by deceiving each other or setting a trap. BUT IT SHALL NOT PROSPER....Do you get what this means brother? Neither mans plans will come to fruition !! Both men will be thwarted by Gods plans. FOR THE END [Of both men] shall be at the time appointed !! Gods TIMING will prevail, not their PLANS. Thus the time of their END will be when God says it will be.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

He will not be WELCOME as he was before and will thus NOT CONQUER the Whole Region as the coming Anti-Christ will do during the End Times (THE LATTER).

The TIME APPOINTED means his DEATH Brother.......see verse 27, for THE END shall be at the TIME APPOINTED !! So what happens at this point in time? He comes against Israel and the Jewish peoples, he would not give up Judea........But God appointed THIS TIME to be his END...He of course died of DISEASE !!

God via Gabriel is telling us his end brother. In verse 27 we are told BOTH KINGS PLANS were not Gods plans thus their MISCHIEF against each other would not prosper, but Antiochus's APPOINTED END would come later. Then in verse 30 we are told that END is upon him, its the APPOINTED TIME of the END spoken of in verse 27.

He was told to get out of Egypt by the Romans, thus its was not like BEFORE and he will not be able to Conquer the whole Mediterranean Sea Region like the coming Anti-Christ will, so it will also not be like the LATTER [TIME].

DavidPT said:
I haven't put any names to any of these. All I did was show the connections. You instead conclude the vile person in verse 21 is meaning Antiochus, while the king in verse 36 is meaning the future AC. Yet it can't be both if the the vile person in verse 21, and the king in verse 36, that these are one and the same.

Of course it can brother, I think I showed that above. Remember Dan. ch 8, the coming Little Horn will come out of the Greek Kingdom in the LATTER TIMES. He also Arises out of the Fourth Beasts Head with 10 Horns (Kings) in the LATTER TIMES. Both have to be put together to get the answer.

DavidPT said:
So once again, if you still insist you are correct, then show with the text in Daniel 11 what becomes of the vile person in verse 21? I already showed with the text what becomes of him, that being verse 45. Now your turn.

Israel is seen as Dead Men's Bones for might near 2000 years, thus says Ezekiel. I am not right brother, God just has a rhythm that is always correct if we can hear it.

DavidPT · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Of course...I though I did that with BOLD in my last post unto you. If you will go back and read the whole chapter, or you can trust me, many times when it switched from one king to the next, like from Ptolemy I to Ptolemy II it simply states, now in the END OF YEARS they joined themselves together by the Kings of the Souths daughter, thus it means Ptolemy I passes his Kngdom to Ptolemy II or he died and passed it on via death, we could find out via searching history, but the Holy Word is not worried about perfected history, but its just giving us the Prophetic Lineage so to speak. But I will revisit that which I bolded above and try to be clearer.

Dan. 11:27 And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Here we have Antiochus Epiphanes and Ptolemy VI trying to defeat each other by deceiving each other or setting a trap. BUT IT SHALL NOT PROSPER....Do you get what this means brother? Neither mans plans will come to fruition !! Both men will be thwarted by Gods plans. FOR THE END [Of both men] shall be at the time appointed !! Gods TIMING will prevail, not their PLANS. Thus the time of their END will be when God says it will be.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

He will not be WELCOME as he was before and will thus NOT CONQUER the Whole Region as the coming Anti-Christ will do during the End Times (THE LATTER).

The TIME APPOINTED means his DEATH Brother.......see verse 27, for THE END shall be at the TIME APPOINTED !! So what happens at this point in time? He comes against Israel and the Jewish peoples, he would not give up Judea........But God appointed THIS TIME to be his END...He of course died of DISEASE !!

God via Gabriel is telling us his end brother. In verse 27 we are told BOTH KINGS PLANS were not Gods plans thus their MISCHIEF against each other would not prosper, but Antiochus APPOINTED END would come later. Then in verse 20 we are told that END is upon him, its the APPOINTED TIME of the END spoken of in verse 27.

He was told to get out of Egypt by the Romans, thus its was not like BEFORE and he will not be able to Conquer the whole Mediterranean Sea Region like the coming Anti-Christ will, so it will also not be like the LATTER [TIME].

Israel is seen as Dead Men's Bones for might near 2000 years, thus says Ezekiel. I am not right brother, God just has a rhythm that is always correct if we can hear it.

The ironic thing about it, you are making some of the right connections more or less, from time to time, but these connections are not making sense if the vile person in verse 21, and the king meant in verse 36, that these are one and the same, my position. Since you at least acknowledge that some of Daniel 8 fits with endtime events, you then should see that verse 27 in Daniel 11---for yet the end shall be at the time appointed---that this connects with the following in Daniel 8.

Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 11:27 says this.

Daniel 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Both of these kings meant here still have to be around when the end that shall be at the time appointed, occurs. When does the text show that occurring?

Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Is or is this not the time of the end meant? But if Daniel 11:40 is meaning towards the end of this age, and if Daniel 11:27 is meaning a time prior to the first coming, how is one to make sense out of why verse 27 makes the point to mention the time appointed the end shall be? IOW, why mention the time of the end in a context not even remotely having a thing to do with the time of the end, that assuming Daniel 11:27 is already fulfilled history that was fulfilled prior to the first coming? The time of the end being placed in that context was placed there for a reason. That reason being that one doesn't come to illogical conclusions about the timing of these events. Yet, apparently some choose to ignore these timing clues in favor of agreeing with secular historians rather than allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture instead.

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
No sir, the 1335 is the Two-Witnesses showing up 75 DAYS BEFORE the Beast Conquers Israel. When the Beast Conquers Israel at the Midway point, there is 1260 days left until the END or Jesus' Second Coming. All you have to do is look at the CHART in the OP and sub in my three point presentation.

1.)
2.)
3.)

You have placed emphasis of the 1335 days on the two witnesses. And no reason the kings of the earth
gather their armies as Armageddon to make war on Jesus.

Your view appears to be....

1. day 1185, 1335 days before Jesus's return, the two witnesses show.... killed 1260 days later
2. 1290 days before Jesus's return, the AoD is setup
3. 1260 days the Jews are in the wilderness.

So you have the Jews in the wilderness for most of the two witnesses's testimony - while the two witnesses are in Jerusalem, after the Jews have left. And the world celebrating over their deaths, during the time when a third of the world is being killed, and the rest starving to death, and dying of disease, the walking dead almost - and you have them going down to Walmart buying presents fore each other. ....

I have just the opposite, I have the two witnesses testifying to the Jews during the perceived messianic age of peace and safety - when they can reach Israel, the Jews. Plus my view matches Revelation 12, the placement of the 1260 days and yours does not.

I have the emphasis placed on the Revelation of Jesus to the world.

1. the two witness have their testimony in the first 1260 days
2. day 1185, 1335 days before Jesus's return, the AoD is setup
3. 1290 days from the AoD setup on day 1185, the heavens part, and the Revelation to the world of Jesus takes place.
4. the kings of the earth as a result gather their armies at Armageddon to make war on Jesus.

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
So SUPPOSEDLY, God protects Israel from 1185 for 1260 days and thus until day 2445, thus leaving them NOT PROTECTED for the next 75 days according to His own word which says He protects them for ONLY 1260 Days !! Now that is according to your logic, not mine, because the Holy Word says the Abomination of Desolation is set up 1290 days before the Second Coming.

First of all, the Holy Word does not say the Abomination of Desolation is setup 1290 days before the Second Coming. That is YOUR INTERPRETATION.

As to your mis-rendering of my logic and and view.....

No, that is not my view nor logic at all. The Jews, who have fled during the 75 day window from day 1185 to day 1260, are protected in the wilderness for the second half, plus the time during the 75 day window in which they fled. They are protected the entire time for which they are in the wilderness.

The 1260 days is the two witnesses's testimony time that takes place before the war in heaven. The 1260 days are the first half of them feeding the word of God to the Jews, which when the AoD is setup on day 1185, the Jews know to flee. Which the window for fleeing is 75 days.

And the two witnesses' testimony results in the 144,000 becoming sealed, receiving Jesus as the savior of their souls, before any hurt is done to the earth. Before the AoD is setup, and the great tribulation begin.

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

DavidPT said:
The ironic thing about it, you are making some of the right connections more or less, from time to time, but these connections are not making sense if the vile person in verse 21, and the king meant in verse 36, that these are one and the same, my position. Since you at least acknowledge that some of Daniel 8 fits with endtime events, you then should see that verse 27 in Daniel 11---for yet the end shall be at the time appointed---that this connects with the following in Daniel 8.

I will engage in the verses later. These passages of old indeed offer us a challenge at times, the old Hebrew and in Aramaic were very limited languages. The Hebrew only had around 4000 words when Moses wrote the Torah, meanwhile we have 500,000 words via the English language.

Reread Daniel 11, many of the Kings at times was spoken of as "IN THE END" but its only speaking of in the end of those particular Kings reigns. We know Antiochus Epiphanes is dead, we know he will not be the End Time Anti-Christ. Now remember, there were no chapters and verses, so when verse 45 is spoken of, then we go right into Dan. 12:1-2 which shows we are in the END TIMES !!

Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up(Rev. 12), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Its an END TIME EVENT Brother. The changeover takes place in verses 33-35, where its speaking of the understanding/righteous being made WHITE and the wicked not UNDERSTANDING, because the TIME OF THE END is yet to be appointed....And this is after Antiochus is dead, of course.

Dan. 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. {Then we move PAST WHAT? The Fourth Beast and the CHURCH AGE all the way unto the End Times where this Anti-Christ who comes out of the Grecian Empire is born, via Turkish parents or grandparents, and comes to power via the E.U. Government. }

I have a Blog that explains the ABOVE in full..... Prophecy Unveiled: End Time Events Revealed: The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

DavidPT said:
Daniel 8:19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Daniel 11:27 says this.

Daniel 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Both of these kings meant here still have to be around when the end that shall be at the time appointed, occurs. When does the text show that occurring?

Of course you are limiting Gods vocabulary here. Gabriel is aloud to talk about THESE Kings end via an APPOINTED TIME and the end of time where the Little Horn arises which will be at the END OF TIME.

DavidPT said:
Daniel 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

This is the Anti-Christ, not Antiochus Epiphanes.

Revealing Times · Feb 17, 2018

Douggg said:
First of all, the Holy Word does not say the Abomination of Desolation is setup 1290 days before the Second Coming. That is YOUR INTERPRETATION.

Yes it does and when you get to heaven you will FIND THAT OUT !! God will say RT told you so.

Douggg said:
No, that is not my view nor logic at all. The Jews, who have fled during the 75 day window from day 1185 to day 1260, are protected in the wilderness for the second half, plus the time during the 75 day window in which they fled. They are protected the entire time for which they are in the wilderness.

The 1260 days is the two witnesses's testimony time that takes place before the war in heaven. The 1260 days are the first half of them feeding the word of God to the Jews, which when the AoD is setup on day 1185, the Jews know to flee. Which the window for fleeing is 75 days.

And the two witnesses' testimony results in the 144,000 becoming sealed, receiving Jesus as the savior of their souls, before any hurt is done to the earth. Before the AoD is setup, and the great tribulation begin.

Its not that hard, anyone who can add should be able to put this together brother.

Douggg · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Yes it does and when you get to heaven you will FIND THAT OUT !! God will say RT told you so.

Here is the text, where does it say in the text Second Coming?

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

DavidPT · Feb 17, 2018

Revealing Times said:
I will engage in the verses later. These passages of old indeed offer us a challenge at times, the old Hebrew and in Aramaic were very limited languages. The Hebrew only had around 4000 words when Moses wrote the Torah, meanwhile we have 500,000 words via the English language.

Reread Daniel 11, many of the Kings at times was spoken of as "IN THE END" but its only speaking of in the end of those particular Kings reigns. We know Antiochus Epiphanes is dead, we know he will not be the End Time Anti-Christ. Now remember, there were no chapters and verses, so when verse 45 is spoken of, then we go right into Dan. 12:1-2 which shows we are in the END TIMES !!

Dan. 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up(Rev. 12), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Its an END TIME EVENT Brother. The changeover takes place in verses 33-35, where its speaking of the understanding/righteous being made WHITE and the wicked not UNDERSTANDING, because the TIME OF THE END is yet to be appointed....And this is after Antiochus is dead, of course.

Dan. 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. {Then we move PAST WHAT? The Fourth Beast and the CHURCH AGE all the way unto the End Times where this Anti-Christ who comes out of the Grecian Empire is born, via Turkish parents or grandparents, and comes to power via the E.U. Government. }

I have a Blog that explains the ABOVE in full..... Prophecy Unveiled: End Time Events Revealed: The Birth Place of the Anti-Christ Revealed

Of course you are limiting Gods vocabulary here. Gabriel is aloud to talk about THESE Kings end via an APPOINTED TIME and the end of time where the Little Horn arises which will be at the END OF TIME.

This is the Anti-Christ, not Antiochus Epiphanes.

In order to even begin to interpret Daniel 11:21-45 correctly, one first has to determine whom the pronouns are referring to, and the timing of these events. When one follows the pronouns beginning with verse 21, it is unmistakable as of verse 45, that the one meant in that verse is the same one meant in verse 21. Therefore only one period of time can be in mind, that period of time having to do with what occurs in the end of this age prior to the 2nd coming, and then at the 2nd coming. Verse 45 seems to be meaning what happens at the 2nd coming, and IMO it is also referring to this in Daniel 8:25---he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand---where I take the Prince of princes to be meaning Christ.

Daniel 11:21-45 has nothing to do with a time prior to the first coming, but has everything to do with a time post the first coming, which includes events that precede the 2nd coming, and events that include the 2nd coming. Until you first correctly determine all of the above, your interpretation of the texts involved are making nonsense of some of the text IMO. Not entirely all your fault though. You're apparently simply parroting some of the same conclusions Commentators found on the web have concluded. IMO also, some of Daniel 11:21-45 seems to be showing what occurs during the first half of the 70th week, and some parts seem to be showing what occurs in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

For example, verse 27. This would fit with the first half of the 70th week. Verse 31, that would fit the 2nd half of the 70th week. But per your interpretation this fails to take into account that there is an entire week involved with the 70th week. Your interpretation does a good job of explaining things that occur in the 2nd half of the 70th week, yet fails to explain anything that occurs in the first half.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The 'he' here meaning the king in Daniel 11:36, the text indicates---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. If this part is further explained in Daniel 11--- and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate---why wouldn't any of the first half of the 70th week also be further explained somewhere in Daniel 11 as well?

Revealing Times · Feb 18, 2018

Douggg said:
Here is the text, where does it say in the text Second Coming?

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

I will try this one more time I have explained this at least 5 times to you here and on other threads but you are not grasping it. I am afraid you can not decipher these events because you have certain events out of place. Until you understand the Children of Israel FLEE at the 1260 Day mark of of the Seven Year end time period, which it seems everyone in the world understands but you and maybe 2 more, you will see that passage and never get it, BUT I GET IT....I shouldn't apologize for understanding it should I ?

Israel FLEES at the Midway point in spite of your protestations, that is when the Anti-Christ comes forth in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, and thus they are protected for 1260 DAYS !! If the were to FLEE at the 1st day they would be protected 2520 days, if they were to flee on day 1185 they would be protected 1335 days (not 1260) but that's not registering with you for some reason, that' on you brother, not me, I can't stop understanding scriptures because you are hung up on an issue. What I have noticed about you brother is once you get something in your mind its there to stay. You really do need to work on that, everyone needs to be able to put off wrong ideas, that's how I roll all the time. God, everyday teaches me new things, I am not stuck to old ideas just because I once had them, else I would be stuck is some bad places.

1.) The 1260 happens 1260 days until Jesus returns or the Second Coming.

2.) The 1290 therefore in JUXTAPOSITION to the 1260 must needs happen BEFORE ISRAEL FLEES, thus the numbers are reverted (backwards) and the NUMBER means an EVENT that is this number of days until the END TIME RETURN of Jesus Christ. Thus its 1290 days until the end.

3.) BLESSED is he that comes unto the 1335 DAY EVENT.....The two-witnesses come BEFORE the Day of the Lord which is the Midway point. They BLESS Israel by TURNING them back unto God just like Malachi 4:5-6 says but that doesn't fit you Anti-Christ is the King of Israel so you look right past that scripture, the Anti-Christ has to be Israels KING !! So you just ignore things that say otherwise brother.

Only when you understand what 99 percent of Christians understand, that Israel FLEES at the Midway point, and ONLY THEN will you understand the 1290 is 30 days before the 1260 and thus 1290 days away from the Second Coming.

Revealing Times · Feb 18, 2018

DavidPT said:
In order to even begin to interpret Daniel 11:21-45 correctly, one first has to determine whom the pronouns are referring to, and the timing of these events. When one follows the pronouns beginning with verse 21, it is unmistakable as of verse 45, that the one meant in that verse is the same one meant in verse 21.

In your opinion....but 95 percent of Christendom disagrees with you brother. We all see the switch over in verse 36 to a different person likened unto Antiochus Epiphanes who was a forerunner to the coming Anti-Christ. One of the KEYS is it has about three verses in there that is not about any King, its a transition period, it explains how the [Blood of Jesus] will turn many men White, and others will still do evil, then the APPOINTED END TIMES COME !! There is a 2000 plus year skip here. Just like the Statue Image in Daniel 2 has a 2000 year SKIP and the Four Beasts of Daniel SKIP to the 5th Beast of Rev. 13 which comes some 2000 some odd years after the Fourth Beast of Rome suffered its Mortal Wound, thus when the Anti-Christ Conquers Jerusalem/Israel the Mortal Wound is HEALED !! The Beast returns !!

God told us in Ezekiel that he would come to see Israel as Dead Men's Bones, and that is exactly what he did for almost 2000 years until 1948 when God raised up those Dead Men's Bones just like He stated in Ezekiel that He was going to do !!

DavidPT said:
Therefore only one period of time can be in mind, that period of time having to do with what occurs in the end of this age prior to the 2nd coming, and then at the 2nd coming. Verse 45 seems to be meaning what happens at the 2nd coming, and IMO it is also referring to this in Daniel 8:25---he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand---where I take the Prince of princes to be meaning Christ.

Daniel 11:21-45 has nothing to do with a time prior to the first coming, but has everything to do with a time post the first coming, which includes events that precede the 2nd coming, and events that include the 2nd coming. Until you first correctly determine all of the above, your interpretation of the texts involved are making nonsense of some of the text IMO. Not entirely all your fault though. You're apparently simply parroting some of the same conclusions Commentators found on the web have concluded. IMO also, some of Daniel 11:21-45 seems to be showing what occurs during the first half of the 70th week, and some parts seem to be showing what occurs in the 2nd half of the 70th week.

For example, verse 27. This would fit with the first half of the 70th week. Verse 31, that would fit the 2nd half of the 70th week. But per your interpretation this fails to take into account that there is an entire week involved with the 70th week. Your interpretation does a good job of explaining things that occur in the 2nd half of the 70th week, yet fails to explain anything that occurs in the first half.

So I was about to ask you if you were a Pretrist, bit instead of thinking Antiochus runs all the way through verse 45, which makes no sense unless ones a Pretrist, you think just the opposite that verse 21 starts off the coming End Time Anti-Christ, now I see where you are coming from at least, I used to think this also, but it just is not the case in my opinion, though I understand the thought process because I also thought the Anti-Christ was from verse 21 on, but Antiochus couldn't be from verse 21 on, that's where I thought you were at. Via my study I will try and list the reasons below that the Anti-Christ can't be from verse 21-45.

1.) In verse 20 we know Seleucus IV was the tax raiser who died early on and that Antiochus was the next King, thus the Will Stand up in his Estate has to be Antiochus, who actually defiled the Temple of God

2.) Antiochus was not next in line, but flattered his way to the Kingdom, thus he shall come in via peace and flattery.

3. For you to be correct here there would have to be no mention of Antiochus Epiphanes or of the Sixth Syrian War vs. Ptolemy VI.

4.) There is NO MENTION of the children of Israel FLEEING HERE nor is there a mention of them being protected for 1260 days, but both or in Dan. 12 verse 7 where it says the holy people are scattered for a time times and half. (1260 days).

These verses below sum up why this can not be the Anti-Christ.

Dan. 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant

All of these things happened to Antiochus Epiphanes. He came back to Egypt but whereas he was welcomed before, the people had turned to Ptolemy VII, and had set word to Rome for help. Thus it will not be as the FORMER (time he was there) nor as the LATTER ( time where the Anti-Christ will subdue them). In this instance, ships from Rome come with a message warning him not to invade Egypt. Then he turns against the Holy peoples with a great fury. The Hellenistic Jews took his par and forsook the Covenant, thus was Jason the High priest whose real name was Yesuah or Joshua.

DavidPT said:
The 'he' here meaning the king in Daniel 11:36, the text indicates---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. If this part is further explained in Daniel 11--- and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate---why wouldn't any of the first half of the 70th week also be further explained somewhere in Daniel 11 as well?

Because the WHOLE CHAPTER is an overview of the entire Greek Kingdom...Its not meant to give elongated details of anyone king its about the whole Kingdom. The Reason Antiochus is 11 verses is hes a forerunner to the Anti-Christ. Everyone else has brief mention. The first half of the 70 Week is pretty much NOWHERE in the book of Revelation either, the Anti-Christ comes to power via PEACE, we are told that in Dan. 8:25 and Dan. 9:27. There is only so much you can detail about PEACE. But when he breaks the PEACE then we get the stories.

Douggg · Feb 18, 2018

Revealing Times said:
Israel FLEES at the Midway point in spite of your protestations, that is when the Anti-Christ comes forth in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK, and thus they are protected for 1260 DAYS

What do you mean by the Anti-Christ comes forth? And what is your basis for the exact middle of the week, day 1260 ?

DavidPT · Feb 18, 2018

Revealing Times said:
In your opinion....but 95 percent of Christendom disagrees with you brother.

I'm considering your other points made in this post as well. Don't have time ATM to address any of those though. But I do want to try and address some of those points later. Only have time to address what you said above.

Using that same reasoning, I'm guessing that perhaps 95% of Christendom also disagrees with me about the 70th week in Daniel 9, where I see a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and that the 70th week is still future. Does that make me wrong to conclude that just because 95% of Christendom disagrees with that conclusion? Since when is the majority always correct every single time? Sometimes the majority has to be wrong, don't you think?

Revealing Times · Feb 18, 2018

DavidPT said:
I'm considering your other points made in this post as well. Don't have time ATM to address any of those though. But I do want to try and address some of those points later. Only have time to address what you said above.

Using that same reasoning, I'm guessing that perhaps 95% of Christendom also disagrees with me about the 70th week in Daniel 9, where I see a gap between the 69th and 70th week, and that the 70th week is still future. Does that make me wrong to conclude that just because 95% of Christendom disagrees with that conclusion? Since when is the majority always correct every single time? Sometimes the majority has to be wrong, don't you think?

I wrote this thinking you were a Perterist and thought that verses 21-45 were PAST TENSE, and in that case over 95 percent would disagree with you, put you were putting forth that everything from verse 21-45 was/is future, this is not an irrational position per se. Apologies offered.

Yes the 70th Week is future, but we now know why we crossed wires so to speak. And I would say 85 percent of Christendom think the 70th Week is in the future. And I do think the Majority of the Church usually comes down on the right side of the word of God. Its like the Holy word written by different men who always seem to agree with each other. Its the Holy Spirit bringing the collective truth to the masses.

Daniel 11 & 12 historically explained step by step.

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