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its ok sometimes the male in me reference people as he i am sorry if i may had disrespected you.
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its ok sometimes the male in me reference people as he i am sorry if i may had disrespected you.I am sorry. I am not following your train of thought here. Please explain. Thank you.
That's maybe because you and I are of different temperaments. I don't fear them and the only real danger false teachers possess is to themselves. That's not to say if a close friend, someone I know face to face goes off after them, I wouldn't try and do something about it.Norbert, this isn't about what individuals choose or don't choose for themselves. this is isn't about whether someone chooses for himself to circumcise himself or his son. This is about the influence of false teachers who are preying on the naive and gullible and who are trying to convince them that they need to come under the Old Covenant system and laws in order to be saved or in order to escape the wrath of God. And it is about pressuring and threatening Christians that if they do not give their allegiance to a physical nation and its government that God's wrath will be visited on them.
“I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.”
Read the Scriptures in the New Testament which teach us about who Israel is today and what our response should be both to the people of the nation and to the nation as a governing body in the world. We are not to bow to them or worship them or adhere to their threats or see them in a god-like status to where we feel we must give them our allegiance (worship) or it is going to impact our relationship with God.
You are fine. I just didn't understand what you were saying to me. That's all.its ok sometimes the male in me reference people as he i am sorry if i may had disrespected you.
I think you misunderstood me, I never said to worship Israel. I'm having trouble sorting through your posts, there is a lot there, and I'm not entirely sure of all the details. My apologies.
Norbert, this has nothing to do with your temperament vs. mine. This is about false teachers teaching what is false to Christians and who are leading them astray and who are threatening their lives if they don't obey the false teaching. And those who are falling for this are by the thousands. And so we have Christians hating and turning against other Christians just because the other Christians don't bow to the nation and give them their undivided loyalties. I had two death threats against me because I was teaching what the Scriptures teach. One person wanted to see me burned at a stake. This is how serious people are taking this, and this is dangerous!That's maybe because you and I are of different temperaments. I don't fear them and the only real danger false teachers possess is to themselves. That's not to say if a close friend, someone I know face to face goes off after them, I wouldn't try and do something about it.
They can be grafted back in through faith in Jesus Christ. The promise is to Abraham and his seed who is Jesus Christ. We must believe in Jesus Christ to be heirs of the promise.I think this helps:
Romans 11:25-32
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
We are under the new covenant. It's new. We are new. No longer conformed to this world, and no longer enemies of God. Christ came to fulfil the law, not do away with it.
Death threats don't stop some Christians on the front lines, they charge head on into it. Dr. Jay Smith and his Christian associates in their fields of expertise in Islamic studies get death threats. Anyone in the field of Christian apologetics who talk to the public get death threats. Even Christian news political commentators on the Daily Wire receive death threats. Plenty of their testimony can be viewed via the Internet.I had two death threats against me because I was teaching what the Scriptures teach. One person wanted to see me burned at a stake. This is how serious people are taking this, and this is dangerous!
Yes, that's true. It is not slowing me down, either. But that really isn't the point. The point is that a false doctrine is being pushed that is using threats and lies to get people to comply and that Christians are turning against other Christians in an effort to comply with what they believe is the truth. And just like Paul had to address the situation with the Christians and the Judaizers in his day, under similar circumstances, we need "to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.”Death threats don't stop some Christians on the front lines, they charge head on into it. Dr. Jay Smith and his Christian associates in their fields of expertise in Islamic studies get death threats. Anyone in the field of Christian apologetics who talk to the public get death threats. Even Christian news political commentators on the Daily Wire receive death threats. Plenty of their testimony can be viewed via the Internet.
It's not slowing these Christians down. They leave me with the impression of charging head long into the labor for Christ with the same disposition as former kings, "You come to me with a sword and with a spear and with a javelin, but I come to you in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.." ESV
I will pray for you!
When you state that "we are under the NC", are you also saying we are the House of Israel or the House of Judah described in Hebrews 8:8?
I know the Westborough Baptist Church is known for its' radicalism and it wouldn't surprise me or anyone on these forums who keep up with public events to be aware that some individuals from that group could go so far as to threaten someone.Yes, that's true. It is not slowing me down, either. But that really isn't the point. The point is that a false doctrine is being pushed that is using threats and lies to get people to comply and that Christians are turning against other Christians in an effort to comply with what they believe is the truth. And just like Paul had to address the situation with the Christians and the Judaizers in his day, under similar circumstances, we need "to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive. For your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, but I want you to be wise as to what is good and innocent as to what is evil. The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.”
You yourself agreed that they can be grafted back in. Guess what? It's happening. Guess what else? Their numbers are increasing. There is a shift in their seeking out the truth. But we as Christians can either help them or hurt them. I've seen a believer's ignorance first hand waste a golden opportunity to witness to an open, seeking Jewish person. While I was building Christ up in their eyes, by this particular believer's arrogance, they were tearing Him down again. Jesus Himself said that those who do not build with Him scatter. Those are the people you avoid and don't build with, because they scatter against the Kingdom of God. We have to know the battle we are fighting. Are we fighting to save souls, or are we retaliating because we are offended? One, the enemy can use against us, the other one he can't.
Clearly not. You have misconstrued the context of Romans 8:8. Those of Israel who are coming into Christ are being born again of the Spirit of God, not the flesh. There is no other way. While all are in our sins, we die in our sins. When we come to Christ we must leave the old man behind and not think in fleshly ways, or allow the flesh to cloud our judgement, or our vision. I'm not saying that Israel is perfect, but what I am saying is that, clearly, God hasn't given up on him yet. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Israel. The God of the LIVING and not the dead.So is your answer a yes to my question?
Clearly not. You have misconstrued the context of Romans 8:8. Those of Israel who are coming into Christ are being born again of the Spirit of God, not the flesh. There is no other way. While all are in our sins, we die in our sins. When we come to Christ we must leave the old man behind and not think in fleshly ways, or allow the flesh to cloud our judgement, or our vision. I'm not saying that Israel is perfect, but what I am saying is that, clearly, God hasn't given up on him yet. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - Israel. The God of the LIVING and not the dead.
They can be grafted back in through faith in Jesus Christ. The promise is to Abraham and his seed who is Jesus Christ. We must believe in Jesus Christ to be heirs of the promise.
Ah! My apologies. Thank you for pointing that out. ReallyI was talking about Hebrews 8:8, you mistook it as Romans 8:8?
When you state that "we are under the NC", are you also saying we are the House of Israel or the House of Judah described in Hebrews 8:8?
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