Curious

[BroGinder]

Why is it that one can deem if a person is a Christian or not. The word by definition means to be Christ Like. If I walk to be like Christ, then I am a Christian. Regardless of my belief in the Godhead or not. If I am wrong, then show me I am wrong and show me Love as I have you from the onset.

Never have I spoken a harsh word or condemmed. Infact just the opposite. I seek truth, how can one be a true apostle if one can not teach someone who views things diffrent. Why isolate me and others like me. Wouldnt Jesus want you to share your light with me and not put me in a place of outcast?

With much Love and respect.
Brother Ginder

 

[Digit]

How can you be Christ-like, when you do not believe in God?

Digit

 

[childofGod31]

Here is why:

1. Jesus said: You have to be born again (which means you have to have Jesus in your heart)

JOH 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.
COL 1:27 ... which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Rom 8:9 ...And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.


2. Jesus is the only way.

JOH 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

3. Jesus said that whoever doesn't believe in the Son (Jesus) is condemned (by default).

JOH 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

4. Paul claims that it's impossible to please God and to be Christ-like if you do not have the Spirit of God living in you.

ROM 8:7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[RescueAngel]

Hello,

I think your question is fasinating and a good one. But there is a pretty clear answer here for you.

To be "Christian" one must believe that the Messiah is Jesus Christ, "The Christ". That He was born of the Virgin Mary, lived, suffered, died and was buried and on the 3rd day rose again and defeated death, hence is also the "Resurrection". And now sits at the right hand of the Father in Heaven and will come again, in Glory to judge the living and the dead. Chrisitians may disagree on many aspects of things but these things are fundalmental and we all believe these things. That makes us Christian and not something else.

We do try to be " Christ-like" in our lives as He is our best example of what it is to be Holy and how to live our lives so we too can please Our Father in Heaven.

Remember if you truly are trying to live a life that is to be " Christ-like" you do believe in a God head, Christ did first and formost, His Father in Heaven, everything else was secondary to Christ. That would be anyone's first priority that was trying to live a life that was Christ like, to love and serve God ( Our Father in Heaven) as Christ did. So, to live a Christ like life without God or Our Father in Heaven at the God head first and formost? I don't really know how that would be feasible at all.

Anyone can live a life that is good, where you treat people nicely and fairly but Christ was far more than that, and what seperated Christ from us all was first and formost His love and connection to God the Father and the fact Jesus is God made man. So, how could Christ have separated the God head from Himself? Anyone following Him and trying to be like Him would not be able to or strive to separte that either, because that is the primary goal, and core of what it is all about.

I hope this made sense and strengthens you more, and finds its way to your heart. I think you are a very special person and I think the Lord has touched you already in special ways, you are awakening all the time to them and this part of the journey for you should be exciting, new and sometimes overwhelming but in the end you will look back and thank the Lord for it all, because it will bring you to where it does and that will be a remarkable wonderful place indeed.

Peace
Rescue Angel

 

[Mayflower1]

Dear BroGrinder, yes you have probably done many good things and no one has ever said you haven't. But the reality of it all is that good works doesn't make someone a Christian but only by the power and grace of God.

"For by grace you have been saved by faith and that not of yourselves. It is a gift of God; not as a result of works so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8,9

"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise, grace is no longer grace." Romans 11:6


"For we maintain that a maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law." Romans 3:28

"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:11-13

Without Christ, our righteousness is like filthy rags in His presence. In fact Romans 3:10-12 referring to the non-christians says this...

"as it is written, There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, Together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."

So you cannot seek truth if you are not seeking God and believing on His Word, because His Word is Truth. If you believe His word, then without Christ you are not righteous.

Lastly, I would just like to ask you a question if you don't mind...

1st John 5:13 says this:

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life."

If you were to die today, would you know for sure that you would have eternal life in Heaven just based on your works?

 

[BroGinder]

I appreciate all your comments, however there seems to be an assumtion that I do not believe in Christ.

I believe as scripture says and that is

JOH 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

I am Baptized in Jesus name, and filled with the Holy Ghost. How is it that I am not considered a Christian.

Childofgod, I am so onboard with your post. This is why I am ocnfused as to why the sight doesnt consider me a Christian.

Fire questions at me, scripture at me I am more than willing to answer. I am not ashamed of Christ or what he has done for me.

 

[Digit]

I appreciate all your comments, however there seems to be an assumtion that I do not believe in Christ.

I believe as scripture says and that is

JOH 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

I am Baptized in Jesus name, and filled with the Holy Ghost. How is it that I am not considered a Christian.

Childofgod, I am so onboard with your post. This is why I am ocnfused as to why the sight doesnt consider me a Christian.

Fire questions at me, scripture at me I am more than willing to answer. I am not ashamed of Christ or what he has done for me.

Do you believe in the Trinity?

Digit

 

[BroGinder]

The Bible is the inspired Word Of God. It gives a true history of the creation of the heavens, the earth, and of mankind. It contains the correct prophecy of the ages to come regarding the heavens and the earth, and the destiny of man. Furthermore, there is no salvation outside of that which is contained within its pages.
There is only ONE GOD: the Creator of the heavens and the earth, and of all mankind. This One God, the I AM, is manifested (revealed) to mankind as FATHER (Creator), SON (Savior)(1 Jn.5:20), and HOLY GHOST (indwelling Spirit) (Rom. 8:11). God is a Spirit (John 4:24), the Eternal One, the Creator of all things, and of all men. Thus making Him their Father (through creation) (Malachi 2:10). The LORD is the FIRST and the LAST, and beside Him there is no God (Isa. 44:6).
There was no GOD FORMED before him, neither shall there be after Him (Isa. 43:10). Jesus is the SON of God according to the flesh (Rom. l:3). Jesus is the very God Himself according to the Spirit (Matt. 1:18-23). Jesus is the Christ (Matt. 16:16). Jesus is the Creator of all things (Col. 1:16, 17; Jn.1:10; Isa.40:28). Jesus is God with us (Matt. 1:23). Jesus is God made flesh (John 1:1-14). Jesus is God manifested in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16). Jesus is He which was, which is, and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY (Rev. 1:8; Isa. 9:6). To this, Jesus Himself testified when He said: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:7-11).
Since it took shedding of blood for the remission (forgiveness) of the sins of the world (Heb. 9:22), God as the Father, being a Spirit, had no blood to shed; so He prepared a body of flesh and blood (Heb. 10:5), that He might fulfill the prophecy of Isa.43:11, "Beside ME there is no SAVIOUR". Thus, when Jesus was born into the world, he was Jehovah our Saviour (that is the meaning of the name Jesus), the one God of the universe, the Lord God Almighty, born as a man. This caused the angels to sing, "For there is born this day in the city of David, a SAVIOUR, which is CHRIST THE LORD" (Luke 2:11).
The Holy Ghost is not the third person in the Godhead! The Holy Ghost is the Spirit, Jesus Christ coming to dwell in the hearts and lives of those who receive him. That is why, when speaking of the Spirit, Jesus said "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you" (John 14:16-26; Rom 8:9; 2 Cor.13:5). So, THERE ARE NOT THREE PERSONS IN GOD, but three manifestations of the ONE GOD. God is the Saviour, and his saving name is now revealed to men as JESUS. Therefore JESUS is the name of God. SALVATION consists of deliverance from sin through the blood of Christ. This is accomplished by REPENTANCE from sin, WATER BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission (forgiveness) of sins, and receiving the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, and the continuance of a godly life (Acts 2:26-41).

I do not understand where the Trinity comes from. I do not find it in the Bible. Can you help me with that? I am not being condesending in nature, I Love God with all my heart. I fast, pray and love him as much as anyone. SO I am seeking all truth. Can you please help me to see this.

 

[childofGod31]

BroGinder, (first you posted in "questions asked by non-christians), then I guess I assumed that when you said: regardless if a person believes in the Godhead. I thought you meant - if you are good (trying to live like Christ), then you can get to heaven on your own.

I guess when you said godhead, you meant Trinity, the big mystery.

If you believe that Jesus is God and that Jesus is the Son of God, I think you will be saved. Because that's what the Bible said (in the verses I quoted). Nowhere did Jesus or Paul or Peter said that we have to believe in Trinity in order to be saved. If anybody knows the verses where this was said, I would like to know.

 

[Criada]

THERE ARE NOT THREE PERSONS IN GOD, but three manifestations of the ONE GOD. God is the Saviour, and his saving name is now revealed to men as JESUS. Therefore JESUS is the name of God. SALVATION consists of deliverance from sin through the blood of Christ. This is accomplished by REPENTANCE from sin, WATER BAPTISM IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission (forgiveness) of sins, and receiving the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, and the continuance of a godly life (Acts 2:26-41).

I'm no theologian, but it seems to me that you do believe in the Trinity!
Father, Son and Holy Spirit, one God. Isn't that what it means?
Or am I missing something here?

And:
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

So obviously you are a Christian!

Bless you

 

[Digit]

I'm no theologian, but it seems to me that you do believe in the Trinity!
Father, Son and Holy Spirit, one God. Isn't that what it means?
Or am I missing something here?

And:
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

So obviously you are a Christian!

Bless you

Ding! We have a winner.

So yeah, I'm confused now because BroGrinder seems as Christian to me as... well, me.

God bless!
Digit

 

[BroGinder]

I am so thankful for your insight. However, becuae I stand on oneness, I am not allowed to post anywhere except in the non-christian asking questions forum. I get a thing saying only christians can post here. Anythoughts how I can bridge this. I have so enjoyed the fellowship of the saints here.

 

[ditzi]

You can post in [open] threads in the Christians Only section too, but I think you'd only be able to respond, rather than start threads. I could be wrong though

d xx

 

[dentonz]

Why is it that one can deem if a person is a Christian or not. The word by definition means to be Christ Like. If I walk to be like Christ, then I am a Christian. Regardless of my belief in the Godhead or not. If I am wrong, then show me I am wrong and show me Love as I have you from the onset.

Never have I spoken a harsh word or condemmed. Infact just the opposite. I seek truth, how can one be a true apostle if one can not teach someone who views things diffrent. Why isolate me and others like me. Wouldnt Jesus want you to share your light with me and not put me in a place of outcast?

With much Love and respect.
Brother Ginder

Be blessed brother, I had no idea that people who held Oneness beliefs could not post in the Christian section. If you do some searching around you will find that most Christians do not understand the Oneness doctrine, nor do they understand the "Trinity". I am a minister currently involved in a main-stream Pentecostal organization that believes in the "Trinity". However, some Oneness Pentecostal have the misconception that we don't believe Jesus is God. But we truly do understand that Jesus is God revealed in the flesh, He is the Great I AM, the everlasting Father, and the Mighty God. And that in Him was the fullnes of the Godhead bodily, which is why he had to ascend back to heaven so we could recieve the Holy Ghost. I've had several friends that were Apostolic One-Name believers and brother I can say they're just as much Christian as anyone. My uncle who is a Pastor of a CoG just recently held a cooperative revival with an Apostolic church because their church was in disrepair do to weather. 1 John 2:23 says "... he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."

Be at peace my brother, none of us have all the answers. May you receive all Grace and Peace in the name of Jesus Christ, to the glory of the Father, through the mighty power of the Holy Ghost!!

In Christ,
Bro. Denton

 

[BigNorsk]

So, when Jesus was baptised, the Father spoke from heaven and the Holy Spirit decended like a dove, what do you think that was? Some sort of time sharing or something where God zapped instantaneously from one mode to another so rapidly that the people there didn't even stop seeing Jesus as he became the Father and then the Holy Spirit.

And if Jesus is also the Father and the Holy Spirit, then why would the Holy Spirit descend to Jesus? He would have already been there, just in a different mode, but Jesus would not have had the Holy Spirit then, even though he did.

So how do you just look past this and just take God is one and make it God changes into one role and then another?

Marv

 

[jesussavess]

Good evening Brother Ginder,

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God bless you Brother Ginder and have a wonderful night!

Glad to have you fellowshipping here with us at CF

~ Blessed are the eyes that truly see ~ (Ephesians 1:17-23)
js

​

 

[BroGinder]

So, when Jesus was baptised, the Father spoke from heaven and the Holy Spirit decended like a dove, what do you think that was? Some sort of time sharing or something where God zapped instantaneously from one mode to another so rapidly that the people there didn't even stop seeing Jesus as he became the Father and then the Holy Spirit.

And if Jesus is also the Father and the Holy Spirit, then why would the Holy Spirit descend to Jesus? He would have already been there, just in a different mode, but Jesus would not have had the Holy Spirit then, even though he did.

So how do you just look past this and just take God is one and make it God changes into one role and then another?

Marv

Marv what a wonderful question. One I recently visited and studied myself. What I discovered was really awesome.

You see that whole incident was not for those around. God told John the Baptist that he would know the Messiah by the following signs. So those signs were specifically for John the Baptist. No other reason, but to confirm what God had told him.

So often in the Bible as Jesus prayed he speaks to the father. The hardest part for some to understand is that there was two sides, just as there is with us. There was the FLesh of Jesus and the SPirit of God in that Flesh.

The vessel was no diffrent than you and I. It bled, hurt, cried, grew angry but sinned not.

In the old testament the Lord says, except me there is no saviour. We all agree Jesus is our saviour I am sure. Anyway, just a few thigns to ponder. I appreciate all the support. I have recently become a licensed minister in the state of Illinois and appreciate the Love felt in this thread. God Bless you all!!!

 

[DArceri]

John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

 

[gracealone]

HI Brother Grinder,
I do believe in the Trinity but not because I can completely understand it. In fact there are many mysteries of God.. why? questions... How? questions that I don't have answers for. If everything there is to know about God could be fully comprehended by our finite minds that would mean that He is not infinite in His nature. He has given us enough knowledge of Himself and His Character in the life of His Son Jesus Christ in order for us to choose to believe and recieve salvation by faith.
Several verses that assure me that Jesus is part of the God Head are ones like, "By Him and For Him were all things created"... "Jesus Quote, " Before Abraham was I AM" " I AM " was understood by those to whom he was speaking to mean that He was claiming to be God and that is why the Jewish religious leaders became enraged by it and wanted to crucify Him. Here's another very familiar verse.. "For unto us a CHILD is born. Unto us a SON is given."
The child is the human form Jesus took on while here on earth, but the Son had to already exist in order for God to give Him to the world for the atonement of our sins. If Jesus was merely a fleshly messenger.. a good teacher, the verse would have ended with the child.. but He was much much more than that, He was The Son, "The Word which became flesh and dwelt among us...."
Hope this helps you out some as you consider the possiblity of the Trinity.
God Bless

 

[gracealone]

P.S.
I think the problem is that Trinity to us means the same thing as Oneness to you. Trinity is oneness... Jesus said.. I and my Father are ONE.