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Curiosity: did you discover anything else, when you discovered "Evolution"? Or just that?

How many discoveries would you have to make before "Evolution" was dwarfed, in your opinion?

  • A few discoveries would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Many discoveries would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A great number of discoveries would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More discoveries than I can remember, would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More discoveries than I can do something with, would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • More discoveries than I can understand, would dwarf Evolution

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • Evolution cannot be dwarfed

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Evolution cannot be dwarfed, because it is not like other discoveries

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I don't know what to make of this, in any immediate sense: did you discover anything else, when you discovered "Evolution"? Or just "Evolution"? I mean there is no sense, in saying "I discovered Evolution, just because", right? There must have been something about it, that appealed to you, that set it apart from other things vying for your attention. How did other things change, when you discovered "Evolution", if they did? Can you say with confidence, "God didn't change"? Would it make sense to say "facts in general developed a greater context"? All these things are valid elements of inquiry, are they not?

I think part of my struggle has been with the idea that you can be elitely "evolved" as a rule, so to speak and that other discoveries that could have been made at the time are somehow 'irrelevant' - that "Evolution kills off" other discoveries, in an attempt to zone in on what strengthens Evolution, to the exclusion of all else. It makes far more sense to say, "Evolution is just the beginning of discovery" that the interactions between it and other discoveries around it has greater and greater significance, as the fullness of Evolution reaches the head. We needn't fear other discoveries, that much is certain.

Do we progress, to a maturer sense of "Evolution", a more integrated sense? Can we bring forward the progress of other discoveries, knowing we have made one of "Evolution"? That the unlikelihood of discovering "Evolution" is all the more reason to trust how it was discovered, that to see the window and to open it are compatible discoveries - which we should respect. There is power in this, that discoveries themselves have a sort of p factor for more discoveries in general - which encourages understanding and development and so on. It is not for nothing that God gave us a brain!

In time it should be able to assess which discoveries made with Evolution, have proved a help (not a hindrance) and how their lifespan varies from creature to creature. This is power. To have and hold a discovery in its original context, emboldens and embosses the discovery - because it can be understood as a response to a pressure, not necessarily a compunction to some kind of negativity that cannot be understood or trusted (if you will). If the concept is married to discoveries that help, how much the greater the interpretation and knowing that will come with the whole of them? Bearing in mind that there are only so many discoveries you can make, in a given context!

Perhaps, and this is the danger, there will be discoveries that limit "Evolution" and we must decide whether more progress can be made with or without them, but that is a topic for another discussion! May you find this well read.
 

BobRyan

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first we "discover" that

1. rocks, dust, gas and sunlight will never (in all of time) come up with a rabbit or a human brain. It is not a property of rocks.
2. Then we "discover" that there is no abiogenesis "experiment" that shows a single celled life form being the result of random chemical reactions of any kind at all. In fact no such thing as amino acids self-organizing into DNA strands that then form a nucleus and wrap themselves in a cell wall. Not even if one attempt to "contrive" and manipulate such a set of chemical reactions.
3. Worse than that - we can't even get bacteria to form that way - so it is not just a problem with single celled eukaryotic life forms that have a nucleus.

Lacking the experimental confirmation of these basic first-steps - we are left wondering how it can be "assumed" to have happened anyway.

Now what I expect is that a lot of people will agree with 1,2,3 and then argue that these basic first-steps should not be "expected" in a scientific experiment. No matter how intelligent we are - we should not be expected to accomplish them even in a lab experiment. Which is a bit "odd" because there are some well known areas at many popular shows and attractions in this world - that have that same "feature".
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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first we "discover" that

1. rocks, dust, gas and sunlight will never (in all of time) come up with a rabbit or a human brain. It is not a property of rocks.
2. Then we "discover" that there is no abiogenesis "experiment" that shows a single celled life form being the result of random chemical reactions of any kind at all. In fact no such thing as amino acids self-organizing into DNA strands that then form a nucleus and wrap themselves in a cell wall. Not even if one attempt to "contrive" and manipulate such a set of chemical reactions.
3. Worse than that - we can't even get bacteria to form that way - so it is not just a problem with single celled eukaryotic life forms that have a nucleus.

Lacking the experimental confirmation of these basic first-steps - we are left wondering how it can be "assumed" to have happened anyway.

Now what I expect is that a lot of people will agree with 1,2,3 and then argue that these basic first-steps should not be "expected" in a scientific experiment. No matter how intelligent we are - we should not be expected to accomplish them even in a lab experiment. Which is a bit "odd" because there are some well known areas at many popular shows and attractions in this world - that have that same "feature".

Why are you conflating abiogenesis hypothesis with the theory of evolution? They are not the same thing.
 
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Mr Laurier

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Hi there,
Hi Gott.

So I don't know what to make of this, in any immediate sense: did you discover anything else, when you discovered "Evolution"?
I did not so much "discover" evolution, as I understood it when I was first introduced to the concept.
As a discarded child, growing up in a dumping ground for unwanted children, I had access to a lot of old books. As a result, I read a lot.
Reading was my escape from the hell I was living in.
Some of the books I read, were biology textbooks from the 1930s, 40s, and 50s.
They touched on evolution as part of the wider field of biology.
 
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