Curch Universal

[TruelightUK]

The One Body of Christ - the Catholic Church (in its true sense, not the post-reformation one!).

How exactly are we to understand this concept today, with our myriad of sectarian groupings? And how does this compare with the understanding of the early Church?

Anthony

 

[ps139]

I believe that the Catholic Church is the One True Church....it seems to me that the question you may be getting at is "Where to the Protestants fit in?" Many Protestants are extremely devoted to Jesus, and I believe they are somehow connected to and included in the One Universal and Catholic Church. For example, they are in schism because of certain beliefs. Many Catholics are in schism with Rome also because of difference in thinking on maybe an issue or two. Also, I have not been to confession in 2 weeks, and I have a mortal sin on my conscience. I cannot receive the Eucharist and so I am not in full communion with the Church. How is this different from a Protestant who is also not in full communion with Rome? I don't know if there are varying degrees of schism and communion, but I know this: that all have fallen short of the glory of God, and we can only be restored to that glory and made perfect through the grace of God, a free gift from Christ.


And I know this has nothing to do with the post, but I can't figure out how to change my font (its too big) and if someone can email me I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks.

 

[Peter]

Augustine had a handy phrase:

"There are those that the church has that God does not. And there are those that God has that the church does not."

Can we, in our limited created selves, limit God's grace? In no way.

I've had to deal with this issue head up for the past two years in my own home. The problem is that there is a misunderstanding of being in the church and being of the church.

When the question is asked "what is the church?", the answer comes back one or the other.

Is the church made up of all believers? Yes. Is there an earthly governing body called the church? Yes.

The church is not an organization with mystery. It is a mystery with organization.

Peace.

Peter

 

[R.E.Taet]

What makes a Catholic a Catholic? Could not a Catholic change his mind on theological issues, and become more Protestant than Catholic in his beliefs, yet still faithfully attend his Catholic Church? And at the same time could not a Protestant become very Catholic in his beliefs and still go to his Protestant church?

Is it the belief? For surely not all Catholics have one opinion on everything, and are with out disagreement. Which is what most Protestants are, people that recognize eachother as saved, but at the same time recognize that they disagree on some issues.

 

[4sightsounds]

 

[ej]

What makes a Catholic a Catholic? Could not a Catholic change his mind on theological issues, and become more Protestant than Catholic in his beliefs, yet still faithfully attend his Catholic Church? And at the same time could not a Protestant become very Catholic in his beliefs and still go to his Protestant church?

The Nicene Creed is a statement of belief, common to all Christians.

Perhaps you're speaking more along the lines of doctrine... if that is the case, then you can find your answers if you research the history of the Church, and of the Bible.

Alternatively, you could post your question in IDD or OBOB - there are some gifted teachers and apologists there.

The Holy Spirit will bring unity between us all

 

[ej]

Is it the belief? For surely not all Catholics have one opinion on everything, and are with out disagreement. Which is what most Protestants are, people that recognize eachother as saved, but at the same time recognize that they disagree on some issues.

No, not all Catholics have identical opinions . Personally, I find transubstantiation a difficult concept to comprehend. Having attempted self-education, I wonder whether the Catholic / Protestant / Evangelical interpretations are more similar than most would care to admit .

Regarding interpretation of scripture, the Catholic church can be traced directly back to the Apostles. Catholic means Universal, Apostolic means of the Apostles!
Segregation between the 33,000 Protestant denominations is brought about by each believing itself to be superior, and correct. Clearly, this cannot be the case for all 33,000 denominations!

 

[Philip]

What makes a Catholic a Catholic? Could not a Catholic change his mind on theological issues, and become more Protestant than Catholic in his beliefs, yet still faithfully attend his Catholic Church?

On certain doctrinal matters, such as the Real Presence, a Catholic can not hold Protestant beliefs and still faithfully attend the Mass. He might regularly attend it, but this is not the same.

And at the same time could not a Protestant become very Catholic in his beliefs and still go to his Protestant church?

If one has become Catholic in belief, then one must become a member of the Catholic Church. One of the most important Catholic doctrines is the unity of the Church. Remaining outside the Catholic Church would be denying this aspect of the Catholic Faith.

Is it the belief? For surely not all Catholics have one opinion on everything, and are with out disagreement. Which is what most Protestants are, people that recognize eachother as saved, but at the same time recognize that they disagree on some issues.

Catholics disagree on some issues, but not on dogma. The same is true for Protestants, but to a lesser degree.

 

[R.E.Taet]

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

On certain doctrinal matters, such as the Real Presence

Would you consider this belief, Real Presence, a salvation dependant issue? (if one did not believe it, he is not saved)

 

[Philip]

Would you consider this belief, Real Presence, a salvation dependant issue? (if one did not believe it, he is not saved)

That is for God to decide.

However, it is the position of the Catholic Church that if a person is Catholic and denies the Real Presence, then that person is in a state of sin since he is placing his judgement over the teachings of the Church.

 

[R.E.Taet]

since he is placing his judgement over the teachings of the Church.

Do you know a list of teachings of the Church that would put one in a state of sin for not believing in? I would be interested in seeing it.

 

[Philip]

Do you know a list of teachings of the Church that would put one in a state of sin for not believing in? I would be interested in seeing it.

IANC so you might get a better answer in the One Bread, One Body forum. Otherwise, you might try The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[BenDare]

The Church is a unique, divine creation. It is like human organizations somewhat in the way that humans are like animals physically. The Church is the Body of Christ. As such, His life is the Force which unifies its parts. The head directs the body. The Mind of Christ directs the Church. Human organizations can only exist as its members agree on a stated set of rules. The Church exists because its members share a mutual Life Force, the Holy Spirit. Groups of Christians organize in order to fulfill the tasks given them by God. Such groups may not agree with other groups, but they respect one another and are sensitive to the oneness they share under the Head. If we think of the Church primarily as an organization which demands obedience to its rules, we become too myopic to see the marvelous miracle of Christ's diversified, multicultural, unified, temporal, eternal Church. There is nothing like it on earth -- or anywhere else!