Cultural Seperation

[Phantom35]

This has bothered me for a long time about the modern "Otaku" subculture...

Anime simply refers to animation, and manga simply to graphic novels, as I understand it. The terms are used to connote that the work is either from or is very heavily influenced by Japanese works, often to make it seem less childish to those who are ignorant of the medium. I think this actually reinforces the medium ignorance, because the division is purely cultural, and I think it's a step forward when those cultural barriers start to break down a little. (I think it is happening... oh so slowly, but still.) While "Anime & Manga" are still a vastly different medium from "Cartoons and Comic Books", but that line is getting a little blurrier all the time. I think most anime fans would start calling themselves "Animation fans" (or just continue applying "Anime" to things... that works too...) if other countries started producing mature (and I don't mean that in the sense of being able to have the characters swear and make sex jokes- I mean an intellectually mature plot... or at least wittier humour than your typical gag comedy), decent-budget animated works. And they are starting to do so.

Just my little mini-rant, with far too many parentheses, which was originally meant to be about the terminology used by the "Otaku" sub-culture.

Not exactly the most socially important thing I could've spent the time to write up my thoughts on, but certainly not the least. So... discuss?

 

[Qyöt27]

Anime simply refers to animation, and manga simply to graphic novels, as I understand it.

Only in Japan is it non-specific; as 'anime' is a twice-filtered loanword, the general usage in English is to refer to Japanese animation ('manga' is a direct loanword from Japanese, and thus would only refer to Japanese comics, although there is some usage of the term to refer to both Japanese comics and Japanese animation in some areas in Europe - one possible reason is the presence of Manga Entertainment, who actually deals in licensing anime). And I've seen some reports that Japanese fans of Western animation and comics do in fact have terms to denote that those are specifically Western. Can't remember right now what the terms actually were, though, or if they were simply using the English words 'cartoon' and 'comic'.

The terms are used to connote that the work is either from or is very heavily influenced by Japanese works, often to make it seem less childish to those who are ignorant of the medium.

You might find a large amount of resistance to the 'heavily influenced' stuff being referred to as anime. It likely depends on how old (in age or # of years in the fandom, as the two are not mutually exclusive; there's 40-somethings that have only been engaging for a few years, and there's those in my age range that have been in it for a decade or more) the fan you're talking to is - older fans are far more likely to initiate a tongue-lashing session if they hear shows like Avatar or whatever else being called anime*. And the reasoning is because they were around when the term explicitly meant 'Japanese animation', as in, stuff produced in Japan for a Japanese audience.

*Especially since the phenomenon of Western animation taking influences from anime isn't really new at all. It's been happening since the 80s, and some cases that would never get called anime look far more influenced by it than some modern things that certain groups of fans will mistakenly use the word 'anime' for. Just look at SWAT Kats. That's from 1993 (and I really do miss that show). The only difference is that it was drawing from the actual animation techniques used in Japanese animation, not necessarily trying to fool people into thinking it was Japanese (which they often fail miserably at, anyway - it's usually painfully obvious when something was produced for Western audiences). Or it was simply a case where Hanna-Barbera lost their minds.



The rest of it, well, that's the Animation Age Ghetto for you**. That article actually covers some of the contributing factors as to why animation is treated the way it is in the West, along with examples that actually do or did go against the mold in recent years.

Still, I can't help but notice that even most 'mature' animation in the U.S. falls into the comedy realm, or perhaps action (and I mean animation produced for Western audiences, although the anime that gets broadcast on American TV stations is subject to that pigeonholing too - and with anime it's actually almost always action series that might have sprinklings of comedy in them, not genuine comedy series). Drama, romance, or other genres get vastly underrepresented, if they get representation at all.

**and going along with the previous mention of SWAT Kats, one of the user anecdotes on that TVTropes page:

SWAT Kats jumps to mind. Running from 1993 to 1995, It was among the earlier western attempt at breaking the ghetto, and, in spite of the numerous problems that popped up because of that, the series went on to become a hit and garnered high ratings. However, Ted Turner, owner of Hanna-Barbera, single-handedly forced its cancellation against outraged fan protests - for the sole reason that he personally disliked the show's Darker and Edgier content.

 

[stacymay]

This has bothered me for a long time about the modern "Otaku" subculture...

Anime simply refers to animation, and manga simply to graphic novels, as I understand it. The terms are used to connote that the work is either from or is very heavily influenced by Japanese works, often to make it seem less childish to those who are ignorant of the medium. I think this actually reinforces the medium ignorance, because the division is purely cultural, and I think it's a step forward when those cultural barriers start to break down a little. (I think it is happening... oh so slowly, but still.) While "Anime & Manga" are still a vastly different medium from "Cartoons and Comic Books", but that line is getting a little blurrier all the time. I think most anime fans would start calling themselves "Animation fans" (or just continue applying "Anime" to things... that works too...) if other countries started producing mature (and I don't mean that in the sense of being able to have the characters swear and make sex jokes- I mean an intellectually mature plot... or at least wittier humour than your typical gag comedy), decent-budget animated works. And they are starting to do so.

Just my little mini-rant, with far too many parentheses, which was originally meant to be about the terminology used by the "Otaku" sub-culture.

Not exactly the most socially important thing I could've spent the time to write up my thoughts on, but certainly not the least. So... discuss?

I don't call myself an Otaku, only because I don't really collect anime merchandise or anything like that. I enjoy anime and some American cartoons, but honestly I don't care about the distinction. Anime is a subgenre of animation in the US because it comes from Japan, so we can call it anime and distinguish it from our animation. Granted this would be confusing if we were visiting Japan, but it would stop being confusing pretty quickly.

Also, there are a couple of American cartoons of the past (and one I can think of from the present - Avatar!) that are pretty mature - namely Batman the Animated Series.

Anyway, I can see why this bothers you but try not to let it. It's really no big deal. I mean, anime may be more popular in the US than it was in years past, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still not the same as our animation and even if we draw influence from each other there will always be some sort of cultural separation - however there's really nothing wrong with that, after all it's fun to learn about another culture (especially considering the Western world's large impact on post-war Japan).

My rant is pointless - I have no idea what I'm even saying -_- I guess I'm just trying to say that I like anime as anime and American cartoons as just cartoons. No biggie to me.