Cultic fundamentalism alive and well in Adventism

[NightEternal]

Have you seen this letter of protest to the GC by Jim Keesler?

http://abundantrest.org/33-adventist-issues-presented-to-the-general-conference/111/

Dear Friends,

I have been S.D.A. for some thirty years. During this time, not once have I contacted the Conference by phone or letter to complain or criticize - nor is this my wish now.

May I say that I believe:

1. The 25 fundamentals as taught by our early pioneers

2. The ministry of Ellen White

3. Health reform

4. Dress Reform

5. Sabbath reform

6. Christian recreation

7. True Christian education, etc.

And it is my desire and determination to teach these principles to others, and practice them by God’s grace, and His indwelling Holy Spirit.

What is my concern?

1. Changes in our fundamental beliefs

2. Pastors and teachers who do not believe in the Spirit of Prophecy or our doctrines

3. Leaders and lay members alike who do not believe in health reform, dress reform, Sabbath reform, Christian recreation, or true Christian education, etc.
Here are some examples:
The Bible and Spirit of Prophecy teach plainly what is to be our position on these points, and yet -

1. Many among God’s professed people are still using coffee, tea, cola drinks, meat, milk, eggs, and cheese (James 4:17).

2. There is a lack of reverence in the sanctuary; with eating, drinking, clapping, gossip (Mathew 18:15), and worldly conversation (like being at a picnic), coming to church dressed for a ballgame, and with some of the girls/women dressed in such a way that could cause their brothers in Christ to stumble morally (Leviticus 19:30).

3. Going to school, or out to eat on the Sabbath (Exodus 20:10).

4. Getting involved in politics, labor unions, or secret societies.

5. Having a church manual.

6. Wearing wedding rings, makeup, and jewelry.

7. Dancing, theater going, card playing, and reading novels.

8. Drama and mime in church.

9. Seeking worldly education, or accreditation for our schools.

10. Earning or conferring Degrees.

11. Use of, or prescribing drugs; Upon request, offering pork in our hospitals.

12. Abortion (6th commandment).

13. Yoking up with non-SDA hospitals (2 Corinthians 6:14).

14. Lawsuits (1 Corinthians 6, and GC 443). And who tricked the church into obtaining 501c3 status? This places the church under government sanction. And trade marking the name SDA? When the church incorporated, it switched from being a church to being a business.

15. Halloween and Christmas parties, participating in Easter sunrise services, and conducting regular Sunday church services.

16. Disfellowshipping faithful pastors and lay members, as well as whole churches and Conferences.

17. Competitive sports.

18. The Celebration Movement, NLP, worldly music, and the use of drama in church.

19. Ecumenism, pulpit swapping, membership in the WCC/NCC.

20. Changing our beliefs and standards through errors in the Sabbath school quarterlies.

21. Divorce and remarriage (Luke 16:18).

22. Tolerating homosexuality and adultery in the church (7th commandment).

23. Military service (violates the 4th and 6th commandments).

24. Improper use of tithe funds (like paying teacher salaries, investing in the stock market - a form of gambling, and buying shopping centers).

25. Women elders, women pastors, and women’s ordination (1 Timothy 3:2).

26. Practicing open communion.

27. Confusion over the 144,000, the nature of Christ, and the trinity (The trinity is a Roman Catholic teaching).

28. Dozens of Roman Catholic references in the church hymnal.

29. Steeples on our churches (From sun worship).

30. Logo change. No one asked for - or got a vote of approval from me. (Our new church logo is on the floor at the Vatican).

31. Church structure and organization founded on a hierarchy like Roman Catholicism. Roman Catholics are sincere and precious (Rev. 18:14). Though having a Christian appearance, Roman Catholicism is largely derived from paganism, and much of the church’s teachings are based on tradition rather than scripture (Matthew 15:9).

32. Trashy books used as required reading or textbooks in our schools.

33. Promoting books of a “new order” such as those written by Morris Venden, and others. And just as washing his hands before the people did not cleanse Pilot from the blood of Jesus, placing a disclaimer in the front of new books does not remove responsibility from our printing establishments of producing sound, truth-filled literature.

What are we if we do something that we do not believe, or believe something that we do not do? According to Revelation 12:17 and Revelation 19:10, the remnant are those who keep the commandments and follow the Spirit of Prophecy counsel. My conclusion? The denomination is no longer Seventh-day Adventist.

(Signed) Jim Keesler

Yes, we have a long ways to go in purging our ranks of such cultic, ultra-conservative thinking. As long as we have extremist wacko's like this guy proferring this stuff and demanding the GC shove it down the throats of the SDA church proper, we will continue to have zero credibility in the greater Christian world.

God, bring some sanity into this organization and soon.

 

[StormyOne]

craziness... do we really need to comment?

 

[Bourbaki]

Yes, we have a long ways to go in purging our ranks of such cultic, ultra-conservative thinking. As long as we have extremist wacko's like this guy proferring this stuff and demanding the GC shove it down the throats of the SDA church proper, we will continue to have zero credibility in the greater Christian world.

God, bring some sanity into this organization and soon.

Leave those cultic Adventists alone and try defending yourself for a change. The charge is willful complicity with the activities of spiritualism in the Seventh-day Adventist church.

 

[Mankin]

Leave the insane people to rot I say. Take away their power so they can't spread their cultic ideals.

 

[Sophia7]

The site said they would post a response from the GC, but I didn't see it. Did the GC ever reply?

 

[NightEternal]

Yes, James Cress (the GC ministerial secretary) did respond:

Dear Brother Keesler,

Greetings to you in the name of our Wonderful Saviour, Jesus Christ, in response to your letter February 25, 2006, but which was postmarked March 27, 2006, and which was forwarded to my attention for a response.
First, you have lodged some serious complaints against the church in general on a vast variety of topics. Some of these are, indeed, serious and should be carefully considered in that context. Others of these are frivolous or matters of personal opinion and do not merit consideration of the same level of importance as those which are of importance.
Permit me to address one such frivolous concern which you state as your # 1 concern - changes in our fundamental beliefs. First, the fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church have never been either a static number, nor a closed document. The last time, prior to the 2005 General Conference Session in St. Louis, in which the fundamental beliefs were amended was in 1980 at the General Conference Session in Dallas. At that time the following preamble was voted by the session as part of the fundamental beliefs: “Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teachings of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set apart here, constitute the church’s understanding and expression of the teachings of Scripture. Revisions to these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language to express the teachings of God’s Holy Word.”
At the 2005 General Conference session the church, led by the Holy Spirit, found better language to express the teaching of God’s Holy Word and added the following fundamental belief. Note: this is not new light, nor new doctrine. It is a better expression of that which we have always believed and taught. The new fundamental belief states: “By His death on the cross Jesus triumphed over the forces of evil. He who subjugated the demonic spirits during His earthly ministry has broken their power and made certain their ultimate doom. Jesus’ victory give us victory over the evil forces that still seek to control us, as we walk with Him in peace, joy, and assurance of His love. Now the Holy Spirit dwells within us and empowers us. Continually committed to Jesus as our Saviour and Lord, we are set free from the burden of our past deeds. No longer do we live in the darkness, fear of evil powers, ignorance, and meaninglessness of our former way of life. In this new freedom in Jesus, we are called to grow into the likeness of His character, communing with Him daily in prayer, feeding on His Word, meditating on it and on His providence, singing His praises, gathering together for worship, and participating in the mission of the Church. As we give ourselves in loving service to those around us and in witnessing to His salvation, His constant presence with us through the Spirit transforms every moment and every task into a spiritual experience.”
The reason I’ve taken time to provide you these two lengthy quotations is to point out the fallacy in your reasoning which suggests that you adhere to some earlier version of fundamental beliefs, and reject the current statement of these same fundamental beliefs and … then … also state that the church is in error for having a Church Manual. Your reasoning is circular at best and argumentative at worst because the original opponents of a church manual were concerned over the very thing a new fundamental belief statement accomplishes. These opponents were fearful that a church manual would set the positions of the church in some concrete, creed-like fashion which could be altered in the future. You simply cannot oppose both positions and maintain any logical integrity.
Now to your specific, handwritten request that your name be removed from membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church, I am returning to you your request for the following reason. Such membership in the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a function only of the local congregation. No other organizational entity can act upon a person’s membership, or discipline by censure. Therefore, any requests that you would wish to make concerning your membership should be directed to the local congregation where your membership resides.
On a personal note, I sincerely hope that you will reconsider this action because both you and your local church family will best thrive spiritually as you join together to hasten Jesus coming.
On the other hand, if you determine that you must remove your membership, I recommend a simple request directed to the church clerk “please remove my name from membership” with the prior enumeration of issues of either importance or frivolous nature which will benefit neither your own spiritual journey nor those who may not be prepared to endure your lengthy recitation.
In the meantime, would you permit a personal recommendation that you carefully and prayerfully read and reflect upon Chapter # 35 in Patriarchs and Prophets prior to acting upon your request? I am praying for a softening of your judgmental accusations against your brethren as a result of you studying the important message of this chapter.
Yours in our Saviour’s service,
(signed)

James A. Cress
Ministerial Association Secretary

http://abundantrest.org/james-cress-responds-to-adventist-issues-letter/113/

Cress obviously knew he was dealing with a loon and his wonderfully patronizing letter reflects that.

Considering James Cress fully supports women's ordination and considers anti-women's ordination to be part of the triumvate of evil in the church, it is hardly suprising Keesler got such a cold response.

Personally, I hope Cress used this ridiculous protest letter to line his cat's litter box.

 

[moicherie]

When rules become more important then people legalism reigns....It would be a good idea of people like this followed Christ example instead of that of the Pharisees.
I wonder if he still lives like an 19th century Adventist ?
I for one have no desire to go back to the 'good old days' which were not so good for people like myself.

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

In January I had blog article on the subject of the letter if anyone is interested.
Breakaway - Traditional SDA Letter

 

[NightEternal]

Just a few comments on the ones that are remotely worth addressing...

1.Changes in our fundamental beliefs

When? Which ones? Where does he get this from? As far as I can tell, the church has prehaps refined and slightly tweaked some doctrine for the better, but to say that there has been outright change is mystifying to me! I only wish we could see some outright, radical changes to certain fundamentals. Alas, I have seen nothing of the sort. If anything, the church has not changed much of anything and still tows the Trad party line. Jan Paulsen even confirmed this!

Paranoia.

2. Pastors and teachers who do not believe in the Spirit of Prophecy or our doctrines

Thank God! We are finally getting some ministers who can think for themselves!

9. Seeking accreditation for our schools.

Is he serious? With no accreditation we could not have functioning schools or qualified faculty, period!!
What a boob. Get your head in the 21st century already!

10. Earning or conferring Degrees.

What?! Okay, this is a new one for me. The latest Trad hobbyhorse? Or has this been making the rounds for some time? I have never heard of such nonsense. Yes, those evil degrees which qualify us for those pesky careers. Evil I say! We should really have a church full of uneducated, minimum-wage neanderthals, what were we thinking?

Moron.

26. Practicing open communion.

Yes, we really should have exclusive communion services and shut out all outsiders and visitors from partaking in the Lord's supper, as it really is only for the very Adventist elite.

Unreal.

30. Logo change. No one asked for - or got a vote of approval from me. (Our new church logo is on the floor at the Vatican).

Where? Who has even heard of such a preposterous thing? Where do these conspiracy nuts get this stuff!?

Paranoia.

32. Trashy books used as required reading or textbooks in our schools.

Where? When? Which books? What curriculum? Which schools? I spent four years in an Adventist college and never once was I assigned to read a 'trashy' book!

33. Promoting books of a “new order” such as those written by Morris Venden, and others.

Bad Morrie!!! Writing about that nasty righteousness by faith! He should have his hands cut off for writing on such an evil subject!

Pssh. What a doorknob this guy is.

My conclusion? The denomination is no longer Seventh-day Adventist.

(Signed) Jim Keesler

Bye, bye. Take your spew elsewhere and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. Now go join your SDA Reform or Shepherd's Rod or whatever. Give a big razz for me to those over at Hartland Institute and Hope International for me wouldya?

 

[moicherie]

To misquote Ghandi, Christ is great, its (some of) His followers that are the problem...

 

[Mankin]

To misquote Ghandi, Christ is great, its (some of) His followers that are the problem...

Lol, when I first saw this thread I thought he typed Celtic fundamentalism alive and well in Adventism. Lol, didn't know the fundies wore blue paint on their faces.

 

[NightEternal]

LOL @ Mankin's sharp wit!

 

[Lebesgue]

Just a few comments on the ones that are remotely worth addressing...

1.Changes in our fundamental beliefs

When? Which ones? Where does he get this from? As far as I can tell, the church has prehaps refined and slightly tweaked some doctrine for the better, but to say that there has been outright change is mystifying to me! I only wish we could see some outright, radical changes to certain fundamentals. Alas, I have seen nothing of the sort. If anything, the church has not changed much of anything and still tows the Trad party line. Jan Paulsen even confirmed this!

Paranoia.

2. Pastors and teachers who do not believe in the Spirit of Prophecy or our doctrines

Thank God! We are finally getting some ministers who can think for themselves!

9. Seeking accreditation for our schools.

Is he serious? With no accreditation we could not have functioning schools or qualified faculty, period!!
What a boob. Get your head in the 21st century already!

10. Earning or conferring Degrees.

What?! Okay, this is a new one for me. The latest Trad hobbyhorse? Or has this been making the rounds for some time? I have never heard of such nonsense. Yes, those evil degrees which qualify us for those pesky careers. Evil I say! We should really have a church full of uneducated, minimum-wage neanderthals, what were we thinking?

Moron.

26. Practicing open communion.

Yes, we really should have exclusive communion services and shut out all outsiders and visitors from partaking in the Lord's supper, as it really is only for the very Adventist elite.

Unreal.

30. Logo change. No one asked for - or got a vote of approval from me. (Our new church logo is on the floor at the Vatican).

Where? Who has even heard of such a preposterous thing? Where do these conspiracy nuts get this stuff!?

Paranoia.

32. Trashy books used as required reading or textbooks in our schools.

Where? When? Which books? What curriculum? Which schools? I spent four years in an Adventist college and never once was I assigned to read a 'trashy' book!

33. Promoting books of a “new order” such as those written by Morris Venden, and others.

Bad Morrie!!! Writing about that nasty righteousness by faith! He should have his hands cut off for writing on such an evil subject!

Pssh. What a doorknob this guy is.

My conclusion? The denomination is no longer Seventh-day Adventist.

(Signed) Jim Keesler

Bye, bye. Take your spew elsewhere and don't let the door hit your butt on the way out. Now go join your SDA Reform or Shepherd's Rod or whatever. Give a big razz for me to those over at Hartland Institute and Hope International for me wouldya?

Don't even get me started on the SDA schools. My son goes to San Gabriel Academy in the Los Angeles area and they completely indoctrinale them with Ellen White.

His 8th grade religion textbook places Ellen White on the same level with Bible prophets John the Baptist and John the Revelator, puhleeeez. And they teach Ellen White more than they do the Word in religion class.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[Mankin]

I didn't know John's nickname was the Revelator. Trads just don't want kids to leave the church so they indoctrinate them. Real smart.

 

[Lebesgue]

I didn't know John's nickname was the Revelator. Trads just don't want kids to leave the church so they indoctrinate them. Real smart.

Didn't work with my son. He "mentally" left the church before I did.

He goes to SDA school because his best friend goes there and we live in a rough neighbourhood with "dicey" public schools.

All in all I am actually glad he is in SDA school as he is safe and getting a reasonably good education and is doing well socially. And I don't have to worry about the gangs in the public school.

Shalom,

Lebesgue