Crop Circles a Hoax?

[TheNewAge]

This is a re-post because I thought the original name was misleading.
I don't know if this is the proper forum to address this under, but I could find no better place for this post, since we discuss science and religion here. This is something I have spent a lot of time wondering about lately, especially after reading some literature on it. All of you, please tell me if I am starting a strawman too.

There is a phenomenon occurring right under our very noses that I believe deserves some discussion:

CROP CIRCLES

It has been reasonably proven that these formations have not been created by the hand of man. With that said, I think the implications are pretty disturbing, regardless of what philosophy or beliefs we hold dear to us.

If mankind did not create this phenomenon, who did? From a religious point of view, that would perhaps have to place the answer to that question strictly within the confines of the supernatural. For those of us who are largely non-religious in nature, could extraterrestrial intelligence be at work? Either explanation seems farfetched, but impossible to ignore.

Is the fact that this phenomenon receives little or no publicity, or empirical study, just proof that perhaps mankind is not so advanced yet in his thinking, in that he is still able to ignore something that is unexplainable?

I was just curious what opinions there are out there regarding crop circles.

 

[TheNewAge]

Sorry!
A few members responded to this post when it was named "A Mystery on Earth" and I wanted transfer their posts over to here but could not figure out how, besides copy and paste.

 

[Tomk80]

Crop circles are made by men. We know some of the people who do it, and 'Ufologists' cannot discern between the crop circles they make and the 'real ones'. Conclusion from this is that there are no 'real ones', every crop circle is man-made.

Second, if aliens or some other made crop circles, why are they becoming increasingly more complex in comparison to 20/30 years ago? Are the aliens learning how to make them here? Are they alien art projects?

 

[TheNewAge]

If crop circles were made by men, how did they do it? Is there a weblink that details these efforts? As far as my research has found, our attempts at duplicating them have been a fiasco and an utter failure.

 

[TheNewAge]

I am not resistant to the possibility that crop circles are merely a hoax. Matter of factly, that would make it much eassier to reconcile them in my mind.
However, the genuine ones have been thus far unduplicatable by even the best teams of scientists equipped with the best tools and technology.

Some of the characteristics of supposedly genuine ones include:
1) flawless geometry - many of the geometric shapes contained within are perfectly formed, down to a single blade of grass. Ones created by scientists are always imperfect.
2) the phisiological changes in the vegetation - the affected plants' stems are warped to angles as sharp as 45 degrees in some specimens, yet there is no damage to the plants and they continue to grow in this fashion. Scientists attempting to recreate a crop circle do so by stepping on the (wheat) in order to flatten it down, to simulate this effect. The obvious end result is trampled, dead crops.
3) Most of the specimens display scarring caused by intense heat, that again, does not destroy the vegetation.
4) Nearly 75% of all crop circles are formed within a time period of less than 30 minutes (many in even as little as ten minutes). Again these teams of scientists, with their best efforts, working under the cover of night, took several hours to create circles with all of the above mentioned imperfections, that could not rival the complexity of design contained within the genuine ones.
5) Many crop circles emit a low level microwave radiation.

It is hard to find sources of information on the subject that are objective and creditable (that do not mix pseudoscience and superstitious mumbo-jumbo conclusions with their findings), but a simple search on Google or in Barnes and Noble will reveal a wealth of sources of information.

Here is one that I felt was somewhat reliable:
http://www.bltresearch.com/index.htm

 

[Big Rob]

Darwin himself creates each individual crop circle. Thread closed.

 

[BananaSlug]

Though most are able to be explained, I think around 6% have no explanation (I can't remember the source). The sceptic side of me says, "people did it" but the cryptozoolgist/paranormal investigator/ufologist says, "maybe aliens did it." It is a fascinating dream anyway!

 

[Ampoliros]

I am not resistant to the possibility that crop circles are merely a hoax. Matter of factly, that would make it much eassier to reconcile them in my mind.
However, the genuine ones have been thus far unduplicatable by even the best teams of scientists equipped with the best tools and technology.

Some of the characteristics of supposedly genuine ones include:
1) flawless geometry - many of the geometric shapes contained within are perfectly formed, down to a single blade of grass. Ones created by scientists are always imperfect.
2) the phisiological changes in the vegetation - the affected plants' stems are warped to angles as sharp as 45 degrees in some specimens, yet there is no damage to the plants and they continue to grow in this fashion. Scientists attempting to recreate a crop circle do so by stepping on the (wheat) in order to flatten it down, to simulate this effect. The obvious end result is trampled, dead crops.
3) Most of the specimens display scarring caused by intense heat, that again, does not destroy the vegetation.
4) Nearly 75% of all crop circles are formed within a time period of less than 30 minutes (many in even as little as ten minutes). Again these teams of scientists, with their best efforts, working under the cover of night, took several hours to create circles with all of the above mentioned imperfections, that could not rival the complexity of design contained within the genuine ones.
5) Many crop circles emit a low level microwave radiation.

It is hard to find sources of information on the subject that are objective and creditable (that do not mix pseudoscience and superstitious mumbo-jumbo conclusions with their findings), but a simple search on Google or in Barnes and Noble will reveal a wealth of sources of information.

Here is one that I felt was somewhat reliable:
http://www.bltresearch.com/index.htm

It might be aliens. I doubt it, though; and 'perfect' crop circles seem a bit eh anyway - Scientists know that the circles are perfect, down to a blade of grass? How could they not recreate that? Bit of surveying, a well-organized plan, buncha people...I'm not thoroughly convinced that the circles are 'too complex' to be engineered by a bunch of guys with wooden planks and rope.

Not to mention, I question why aliens come all the way to Earth to flatten our fields. Seems a bit...odd.

 

[GoSeminoles!]

I'm calling BS on the whole list.

Some of the characteristics of supposedly genuine ones include:
1) flawless geometry - many of the geometric shapes contained within are perfectly formed, down to a single blade of grass. Ones created by scientists are always imperfect.

This is a ridiculous claim on the face of it. Perfect down to a "single blade of grass?" Give me a break. And what constitutes geometric perfection? Complex geometric shapes are not difficult to form. Go play with your spirograph set.

2) the phisiological changes in the vegetation - the affected plants' stems are warped to angles as sharp as 45 degrees in some specimens, yet there is no damage to the plants and they continue to grow in this fashion.
Scientists attempting to recreate a crop circle do so by stepping on the (wheat) in order to flatten it down, to simulate this effect. The obvious end result is trampled, dead crops.

This is not unusual at all. Whether a plant will live or die after being stomped on depends on the stage of its life cycle and, well, luck.

3) Most of the specimens display scarring caused by intense heat, that again, does not destroy the vegetation.

If it didn't destroy the vegetation, then by definition it wasn't intense heat. And I don't know what scarring means in this context.

4) Nearly 75% of all crop circles are formed within a time period of less than 30 minutes (many in even as little as ten minutes).

And how would anyone know this unless he photographed his field and then again 10 minutes later?

Again these teams of scientists, with their best efforts, working under the cover of night, took several hours to create circles with all of the above mentioned imperfections, that could not rival the complexity of design contained within the genuine ones.

Circlemakers have made exquisitely complex patterns all by themselves.

5) Many crop circles emit a low level microwave radiation.

Big deal. What doesn't?

 

[Lycaenidae]

Crop circles are made by Satan to trick us into worshipping aliens.

 

[BananaSlug]

Not to mention, I question why aliens come all the way to Earth to flatten our fields. Seems a bit...odd.

Maybe they're intergalactic highway signs?

 

[Edx]

Maybe they're intergalactic highway signs?

"your planet is scheduled for demolition"

 

[Patzak]

I think the first and perhaps only question one should ask when considering crop circles and aliens is simply "why?". Imagine: you're an alien, you have traversed thousands of lightyears and after thousands of years of travel you finally come upon a semi-intelligent civilization. So what do you do? Do you make contact and establish diplomatic relations? Do you just leave them alone untill they advance enough to be integrated into the galactic society? No. You make crop circles. And abduct people to anally probe them.

I think the main problem here is that people have taken a perfectly valid concept of extraterrestrial life and mixed it up with all sorts of paranormal mumbo-jumbo so now we have aliens communicating telepathically with a small number of select individuals, they come from the "omega dimension" or something, using their tachyon-powered invisible spaceships, and they are here to help us reach a higher level of consciousness (which is what the age of aquarius is all about) using, why not?, subliminal messages hidden in crop circles.

One should either consider aliens as an explanation for crop circles rationally (i.e. my first paragraph) or not consider them at all, because at the moment you bring in the paranormal, the field's open for just about anything - why should the aliens be responsible if we can blame the crop circles on Elvis clones or leprechauns or the Loch Ness monster?

 

[BananaSlug]

When I was in junior high I had a strange hook on the chupacabra. It just seemed so creepy and neat at the same time.

 

[TheNewAge]

I'm calling BS on the whole list.

Point 1: Perfect down to a "single blade of grass?" Give me a break. And what constitutes geometric perfection? Complex geometric shapes are not difficult to form. Go play with your spirograph set.

Point 2: This is not unusual at all. Whether a plant will live or die after being stomped on depends on the stage of its life cycle and, well, luck.

If it didn't destroy the vegetation, then by definition it wasn't intense heat. And I don't know what scarring means in this context.

Point 3: And how would anyone know this unless he photographed his field and then again 10 minutes later?

Circlemakers have made exquisitely complex patterns all by themselves.


Big deal. What doesn't?

Point 1: The supposedly genuine crop circles have been photographed aerially it was determined that they were geometrically perfect using digital imaging.
Yes, we can create somewhat perfect geometric designs using a kid's spirograph, but there are still imperfect. And these imperfections when multiplied to cover the area covered by crop circles would not yield the geometrically perfect designs present in genuine examples. The imperfections in the sample hoaxes made by researchers with a rope and some boards, again took hours to make and display uniformly distributed imperfections.

Point 2: Leaving the continued lifecycle of affected plants in crop circles to luck is inconclusive, considering that there would be a degree of variance in those exhibiting unusual morphology and those that do not. This is not the case in the genuine ones. ALL of the affected vegetation continues to grow in this askew fashion.
Additionally, research teams have been unable to duplicate the bending of the plant stalks in the manner that is present in genuine examples. And when I said that there was scarring caused by intense heat, I was using the word intense, in a relative fashion. I was not the researcher so I can make no assumptions about the surface conditions present at the time of formation.

Point 3: From a purely objective standpoint, NO, it has not been proven yet, to my knowledge, that these formations occurred in a span of 30 minutes or less. This information was obtained from the mouth and testimony of the afflicted farmer, who may have been hitting the bottle or under some other influence...Many of the land owners have testified to this though.

Of course the complexity of the patterns is no argument for legitimacy because crop circles are actually simple representations of fractal geometry.

I feel dangerously close to being forced into a corner and being sided with the superstitious people who would love nothing more than for folks to think that UFO's or druids created crop circles. Let me make it clear that my interest in this topic is purely that of a skeptic who would like to see a scientific explanation for this phenomenon, but up until now has not. Perhaps it is out there and I just haven't stumbled upon it yet in my web searches, but thus far, the explanations have not been objective in the slightest manner.
I figured that this would be a good place to start, since we are all debating evidence vs superstition here.
No, Darwin didn't make them. Can we use the same objectivity and scrutiny that has been afforded Creationism and ID ism and not resort to silly plays with words?

 

[EvoDan]

Crop circles are irreducibly complex, and evidence of an intelligent designer.

 

[Loudmouth]

Is it me, or is the crop circle phenomena (the cult, not the circles themselves) remind you of Intelligent Design folk. CCC for crop circle cult and ID for intelligent design.

CCC: These features are too complex for man to be responsible.
ID: These features are too complex for evolution to be responsible.

CCC: Therefore, we pick aliens as the responsible party, offering no other evidence of their existence than the circles themselves.
ID: Therefore, we pick (insert favorite deity here) as the responsible part, offering no other evidence of it's existence than the complex features themselves.

 

[BananaSlug]

^Very true indeed

 

[TheNewAge]

I think the first and perhaps only question one should ask when considering crop circles and aliens is simply "why?". Imagine: you're an alien, you have traversed thousands of lightyears and after thousands of years of travel you finally come upon a semi-intelligent civilization. So what do you do? Do you make contact and establish diplomatic relations? Do you just leave them alone untill they advance enough to be integrated into the galactic society? No. You make crop circles. And abduct people to anally probe them.

I think the main problem here is that people have taken a perfectly valid concept of extraterrestrial life and mixed it up with all sorts of paranormal mumbo-jumbo so now we have aliens communicating telepathically with a small number of select individuals, they come from the "omega dimension" or something, using their tachyon-powered invisible spaceships, and they are here to help us reach a higher level of consciousness (which is what the age of aquarius is all about) using, why not?, subliminal messages hidden in crop circles.

One should either consider aliens as an explanation for crop circles rationally (i.e. my first paragraph) or not consider them at all, because at the moment you bring in the paranormal, the field's open for just about anything - why should the aliens be responsible if we can blame the crop circles on Elvis clones or leprechauns or the Loch Ness monster?

I think you summed up my thoughts on this best. Thank you. I was beginning to feel cornered... for the wrong reasons.

I wanted to conduct an objective inquiry without the introduction of new age rhetoric, poeple trying to dowse for water or conduct seances in crop circles, or explanations that lie outside the realm of the scientific, although speculations are welcome, if for no other reason than everyone's entertainment.

 

[TheNewAge]

Is it me, or is the crop circle phenomena (the cult, not the circles themselves) remind you of Intelligent Design folk. CCC for crop circle cult and ID for intelligent design.

CCC: These features are too complex for man to be responsible.
ID: These features are too complex for evolution to be responsible.

CCC: Therefore, we pick aliens as the responsible party, offering no other evidence of their existence than the circles themselves.
ID: Therefore, we pick (insert favorite deity here) as the responsible part, offering no other evidence of it's existence than the complex features themselves.

True that. I worded my original post poorly. OOps!
Anyways, can we just focus on the phenomenon and its particulars now?