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I don't know if this is an answer or not.
I am asking you a question. Note the punctuation at the end of the sentence.
I asked one first. Is your criteria for design "this stuff couldn't have happened naturally"?
You did and I had to ask a question to answer yours.
If you aren't going to answer the OP then I don't know what you're doing here. I have tried to ask questions about the two opinions I've been given on design and I'm getting vague incomplete answers. I would think that people who believe that life is designed would be able to explain their criteria for identifying this design. So far I've gotten "interdependent parts" and "everything looks too fine tuned to be natural". So let's start over. What criteria do you use to determine that something is designed?
If you are unwilling to participate in the thread and discuss rather than control the dialog then there is no point.
I want the OP answered with as little thread derailing as possible. Again, just getting what should be a simple question answered is like pulling teeth. I didn't create this thread so I could hold someone's hand and walk them through their answer. I'm also not going to try and drag an answer out of someone.
Imo, this thread will have only two directions. If you talk about design criteria regarding origins, you'll get an abiogenesis conversation. If you talk about design criteria otherwise, you'll get a genetic engineering conversation.Design criteria anyone?
Imo, this thread will have only two directions. If you talk about design criteria regarding origins, you'll get an abiogenesis conversation. If you talk about design criteria otherwise, you'll get a genetic engineering conversation.
My post was spot on in keeping with the thread. I don't need assistance with my answers. Why not just tell us what you are comfortable with as far as our answers are concerned and let it go at that.
It is apparent that there is a certain direction the OP had in mind and it isn't going that way so frustration is setting in. At least that is what it looks like to me when someone refuses to answer any questions.
You clearly do need assistance since this has gone on for two pages and I've yet to see a comprehensive answer. It should have taken one post to answer the OP. Just one. One post providing the criteria for identifying design. Then we can discuss that criteria. Instead we have to play this game, drag it out, and we still won't get a complete answer. If I started a thread on how to identify common descent I would have seven pages of answers by now and the discussion wouldn't have even started yet. Instead, I'm still waiting for an answer.
You clearly do need assistance since this has gone on for two pages and I've yet to see a comprehensive answer. It should have taken one post to answer the OP. Just one. One post providing the criteria for identifying design. Then we can discuss that criteria. Instead we have to play this game, drag it out, and we still won't get a complete answer. If I started a thread on how to identify common descent I would have seven pages of answers by now and the discussion wouldn't have even started yet. Instead, I'm still waiting for an answer.
I highly doubt you will get a straight answer, based on previous experience.
Also, I also don't think any answer will be a scientific definition and or have any test that would falsify the presence of design.
I highly doubt you will get a straight answer, based on previous experience.
Also, I also don't think any answer will be a scientific definition and or have any test that would falsify the presence of design.
Well like two of us have noted...life. The specific and necessary elements for the first life or cell would be a criteria for Design. The fact that mankind at this point in history points to the success of the plan.
If we disregard the extremely unlikely factors that allow life to exist at all on earth... fine tuning of the universe as well as the requirements for earth itself to accommodate life; we find that the first birth of life to be very unlikely as well if only natural occurring phenomena were at work.
Homochirality and the other requirements of the first life exemplify the limits of life arising by natural occurring phenomena.
So your criteria is "all this couldn't have happened naturally"?
Do you have another means of life's creation other than naturally or supernaturally?
I just want you people who talk about design to explain the criteria for identifying design. Your'e right, I am getting frustrated because you want to discuss before answering.
his thread is for those who believe in Intelligent Design and also for those who believe in Evolution. I don't like using the word believe for either one but there it is.
If you were to look at an organism how would you determine design? What is the criteria you would use? How does this criteria relate to a deity?
Sorry everybody, but there is no poll associated with this thread
For clarification purposes:
Design: purpose, planning, or intention that exists or is thought to exist behind an action, fact, or material object.
For our purposes: planning, or intention that exists behind a material object.
Thanks to TFY for the suggestion
I've given you games?I really do want the question answered and I don't have any ulterior motive or agenda here. I had this same problem with my Jesus Evidence thread before it got shut down. Everyone accused me of being a Jesus myhicist and acting as if I was trying to disprove the existence of Jesus. At least I got answers in that thread and not just games.
Now here it is laid all out for you. You asked in the OP:
T
I answered you asked about my answer. I answered. You asked a question and I asked a question. Don't act as if I didn't respond accordingly to the OP ...an answer. If you don't like my answer that is your problem but don't act like I didn't answer and even explain my answer.
I've given you games?
No Chet you did not try to play games. However you did only provide a partial answer to the OP. Your answer was "interdependent parts". You even admitted that it was only part of your criteria for determining design. Like I said, I'm not going to drag an answer out of someone. If someone wants to respond I would appreciate a full comprehensive answer to the OP.
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