Cremation Question

Caedmon · Oct 12, 2002

VOW stated this in a thread in the Protestant/Reformed/Nondenominational Forum:

The Catholic Church has changed its stance on cremation. As long as the person who died and/or the survivors do not intend cremation to be a statement against the belief of the resurrection of the body, cremation is allowed. And because of the belief in the resurrection of the body, the cremains should not be scattered, but either interred or even deposited at sea in a closed container.

I am inclined to believe that God could resurrect the body regardless of its location or condition. In fact, if we consider the natural process of decomposition, the molecules making up a human body don't stay in one place for very long, but rather are reincorporated back into the environment.

Therefore, why does it matter to the Church what happens to the body after death?

The Squalid Wanderer · Oct 12, 2002

Dear HumbleJoe,

The matter is one of symbolism. Burial of the body was generally seen as a statement of faith that the body would be resurrected, thus respect was accorded to it.

Cremation in times past was usually seen as an expression of gnostic anti-materialism, where the material universe was seen as bad and death as a liberation of the human soul from the material plane in which it was trapped. Thus the body was reduced to ashes because it was of no worth. The idea of resurrection would have been repulsive to the gnostics because it would have meant reimprisonment to a material existence.

Cremation and burial have lost much of this symbolic meaning to the general public and I believe this to be the reason for the change in Catholic teaching.

isshinwhat · Oct 12, 2002

Cremation was only looked down upon because some did it to profess a denial in the Resurrection of the Dead. It wasn't cremation itself that was looked down upon, but the heretical statement that it signified for some.

God Bless,

Neal

Caedmon · Oct 12, 2002

Well, if the Church believes it is only symbolic, and that cremation is perfectly acceptable, then why the subsequent restrictions? Why is it taught that "the cremains should not be scattered, but either interred or even deposited at sea in a closed container"?

isshinwhat · Oct 12, 2002

To the Church, symbolism reflects belief. The reason for the restrictions is not the Church's unbelief in God's ability to regenerate the body of the deceased, but instead they are placed on the faithful to curtail misconceptions or heretical statements that there is not a bodily resurrection. It is symbolic, but many heresies have arisen over misunderstandings of symbolism. It is the duty of the Church's shepards to try to prevent this. They have loosened their restrictions because they have worked and such misbelief is no longer as widespread. In the future they could be loosened further. It all depends on the leadership of the Holy Spirit, the sure guide of our Faith.

God Bless,

Neal

Caedmon · Oct 12, 2002

Originally posted by isshinwhat
To the Church, symbolism reflects belief. The reason for the restrictions is not the Church's unbelief in God's ability to regenerate the body of the deceased, but instead they are placed on the faithful to curtail misconceptions or heretical statements that there is not a bodily resurrection. It is symbolic, but many heresies have arisen over misunderstandings of symbolism. It is the duty of the Church's shepards to try to prevent this. They have loosened their restrictions because they have worked and such misbelief is no longer as widespread. In the future they could be loosened further. It all depends on the leadership of the Holy Spirit, the sure guide of our Faith.

This is the illustration that I have learned concerning Catholic belief(from the FAQ):

Deposit. Left by the Apostles. Includes both Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Infallible, cannot be altered, changed, added to, or subtracted from.

Dogma. Promulgated by ecumenical councils or declared by reigning Pontiff. Also infallible, also cannot be changed---but also cannot contradict Scripture, Tradition, or previous infallible statement or another dogma.

Doctrine. Explanation of some aspect of the Faith. Not infallible, can be changed, evolved, condemned, abandoned.

Discipline. Rule established by the Church to help the believer walk the straight and narrow path; includes both celibacy and not eating meat on Fridays during Lent and fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Devotion. Lowest level of Catholic belief; usually more or less up to the individual believer to practice or not. Includes 99% of all Marian practices, including the Rosary, First Fridays, and belief in apparitons of Mary such as Lourdes or Fatima.

Click to expand...

(source: David Currie, "Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic)

So is this cremation issue a Doctrine or a Discipline?

isshinwhat · Oct 12, 2002

I would say discipline.

Neal

The Squalid Wanderer · Oct 12, 2002

I agree with isshinwhat, it is a matter of discipline and not doctrine. *edited to remove my imbecility*

Caedmon · Oct 12, 2002

Originally posted by The Squalid Wanderer
I agree with isshinwhat, it is a matter of discipline and not doctrine. That is why it can be altered

Then why was Doctrine described as "Not infallible, can be changed, evolved, condemned, abandoned."?

The Squalid Wanderer · Oct 12, 2002

O.k., cancel that last sentence and put me down on the record as simply agreeing with isshinwhat. I'm not Catholic and don't know all of their terminology, sorry.

VOW · Oct 13, 2002

To Joe:

What DIFFERENCE does it make if it is a discipline or a devotion or whatever? There won't be a graded test later!

Peace,
~VOW

Caedmon · Oct 13, 2002

Originally posted by VOW
To Joe:

What DIFFERENCE does it make if it is a discipline or a devotion or whatever? There won't be a graded test later!

Peace,
~VOW

Sorry! :o Ok VOW, I won't ask it again. I like to know that kind of stuff. I just have to look at everything. I feel compelled to do so.

VOW · Oct 13, 2002

To Joe:

I do understand your curiosity, Hon, and I applaud it. However, there comes a time where you have to let it go. Swallowing the horse and choking on the tail type thing, yanno.

Peace,
~VOW

Caedmon · Oct 13, 2002

Originally posted by VOW
Swallowing the horse and choking on the tail type thing, yanno.

I love it when you say that. What does it mean?
Is it similar to "swallowing the horse, and straining a gnat?"

LOL, I love one-liner wisdom. That's why I like Proverbs.

VOW · Oct 14, 2002

To Joe:

What does it mean?

If you've already swallowed a whole horse, Joe, obviously you're done with the hard part. Swallowing the tail is nothing, compared to the whole horse. Take care of the big stuff, the little stuff will take care of itself.

(And there's probably a Proverbs to that effect!)

Peace,
~VOW

Wolseley · Oct 14, 2002

The practice of cremation (or not) is a Discipline, which means the Church imposed it for a specific purpose, and the Church can lift it if she sees fit. Only the original Deposit and defined Dogma cannot be changed.

Well, if the Church believes it is only symbolic, and that cremation is perfectly acceptable, then why the subsequent restrictions? Why is it taught that "the cremains should not be scattered, but either interred or even deposited at sea in a closed container"?

Because those cremains were once the body of believing Catholic, and therefore the Temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19); any material remains which were the dwelling place of God are to be treated with respect and reverence, and given a decent resting place; preferably on land, or if necessary at sea.

Caedmon · Oct 14, 2002

Originally posted by Wolseley
Because those cremains were once the body of believing Catholic, and therefore the Temple of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 6:19); any material remains which were the dwelling place of God are to be treated with respect and reverence, and given a decent resting place; preferably on land, or if necessary at sea.

Ahhh, I see. Thanks for the insight Wols.

Wolseley · Oct 14, 2002

You're welcome, sir.

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