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Honestly, I don't have the time right now to find some sources. I felt this was more of a casual conversation.
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Honestly, I don't have the time right now to find some sources. I felt this was more of a casual conversation.So then to avoid answering directly, you would manuver yourself into a position to give some standard text?
To be honest, I thought more highly of you.
Honestly, I don't have the time right now to find some sources. I felt this was more of a casual conversation.Would be a good topic to discuss in another thread.
Agreed, you know something funny I just thought about well it's not funny but...... The church and state is "suppose to be sepereate" but the government was based off of christian princples and beliefs from what I have learn". Remember when you read the next part remember it's "seperate" but when it comes to going to court you have to swear on the bible, but why if it's "seperate". The government choses what rules to enforce and not.Which beliefs to accept and which ones not to. It's alot of corruption going on in the worl these days hard to tell soemtimes who is and who isn't but all we can do is pray and hope for better.
Nothing to forgive, it's all good.I understand. Please forgive me for pressing.
Just a few points.....
We need to make a distinction between what is done with personal funds vs. ministry funds. Many of these well-known ministers derive a significant amount of income from honorariums, conferences, book & tape sales, etc. that may not be ministry funds. The amounts that one can make from a best-selling book might allow the minister to live in a manner that others consider extravagant, but there is no sin in that, nor is it an abuse of the tax-exempt status of the ministry. Likewise with a gift - if the congregation collects money to give to the pastor (not to the ministry) for a car, it is a gift from the individuals directly to him. We may not think that with how he spends it is wise, but there is no sin in it. As Paul says, "all things are lawful for me but not all things are expedient."
Secondly, much of the scrutiny is coming on ministries because there are so many reports of abuses out there. The IRS currently does not have much power to examine ministries, because churches do not file a Form 990 like PBS or PETA do, to disclose their activities publicly. The IRS cannot initiate an audit if there is no report to audit, that is why they are trying other means to examine these ministries. Judgment does begin in the house of the Lord, and if we do not do a good job of examining ourselves, soberly, it is probably just a matter of time before the legal system of this country does find a way to hold ministries to a higher standard of accountability.
I think history bears it out. Kings are the only authority we ever see scripturally installed. However I do believe a Christian should honorably subject himself to the gov't that has rule over them.
All churches though still fill out taxes in some way. My father-in-law's parent church got audited years ago. You can check it all out at www.wikipedia.org and put in there Indianapolis Baptist Temple.Just a few points.....
We need to make a distinction between what is done with personal funds vs. ministry funds. Many of these well-known ministers derive a significant amount of income from honorariums, conferences, book & tape sales, etc. that may not be ministry funds. The amounts that one can make from a best-selling book might allow the minister to live in a manner that others consider extravagant, but there is no sin in that, nor is it an abuse of the tax-exempt status of the ministry. Likewise with a gift - if the congregation collects money to give to the pastor (not to the ministry) for a car, it is a gift from the individuals directly to him. We may not think that with how he spends it is wise, but there is no sin in it. As Paul says, "all things are lawful for me but not all things are expedient."
Secondly, much of the scrutiny is coming on ministries because there are so many reports of abuses out there. The IRS currently does not have much power to examine ministries, because churches do not file a Form 990 like PBS or PETA do, to disclose their activities publicly. The IRS cannot initiate an audit if there is no report to audit, that is why they are trying other means to examine these ministries. Judgment does begin in the house of the Lord, and if we do not do a good job of examining ourselves, soberly, it is probably just a matter of time before the legal system of this country does find a way to hold ministries to a higher standard of accountability.
Amen Franky!Another good reason to support "flat tax"
There's something not right about Creflo. I don't trust him at all. There are video clips on youtube that says alot about him
Go to youtube and type in "Creflo Dollar denies the divinity of Christ" since love him so much.
REAAAAALLLY?Go to youtube and type in "Creflo Dollar denies the divinity of Christ" since love him so much.
this is from his website.[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Geneva,Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Statement of Beliefs
[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]At World Changers Church International we believe:
[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]…Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that He was crucified, died and was buried. On the third day, He rose from the dead and later ascended into heaven, where He remains at the right hand of God Almighty.
…after death, eternal life begins either in heaven or hell. Where you spend eternity is based on your decision to make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior.
…that when the Rapture occurs, the dead in Christ will rise first, and then those who are alive and remain (those have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior) will be caught up to meet Him in the air.
…the Bible was written and inspired by God.
…faith is acting on the Word of God.
…in water baptism in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
…in the authority of Jesus' name.
…in the indwelling of, and baptism of, the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
…in divine healing—the restoration of health to those who believe and act on the truths written in God's Word. We further believe that Jesus is our Healer and that by His stripes we are already healed.
…tithes and offerings should be freely given to your local church. The local church is the place of membership where God has called you to receive His Word on a consistent basis and to grow spiritually.
…in giving alms to the poor, sick, homeless and others in despair.[/FONT]
And he didn't spend donor's money on lawyers when he stated he was a Roman Citizen.
That relation doesn't hold across different things. For instance food costs across the US (and cars for that matter) do not swing nearly as widely as real estate prices. If you told me a minister was given $100 by some poor Mexicans living in rural Mexico, I would have a huge issue with a minister accepting that, however if it were in San Diego it would be much different.
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