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Creationists False on Key Point

Dale

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Darwin's theory of evolution is very different from Lamarck's. Lamarck imagined that an animal wanted to change, had a desire to change. Darwin's theory doesn't depend on an animal having the intelligence or will to want anything.

It is true that the fact of species change was known before Charles Darwin. What Darwin did was propose a theory to account for the known fact that species appear to change. The many species that have become extinct have been replaced by species that are still around.
 
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PeterDona

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When did Jesus give the government to the church exactly.
Look up the word "Kingdom"
example,
Fear not little flock, for it is the Fathers good pleasure to give you the kingdom
You are Peter, and on that rock I will build my church (Kingdom again), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 
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Dale

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What evidence would you accept?

Do you accept skeletons of animals as evidence?

Creationists keep telling me that there can't be a new species. In plants, new species have been observed.
 
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Raggedyman

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Look up the word "Kingdom"
example,
Fear not little flock, for it is the Fathers good pleasure to give you the kingdom
You are Peter, and on that rock I will build my church (Kingdom again), and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So you have established the church as Gods kingdom, not the earth
The earth is not the kingdom, its a broken place of sin, thats patently obvious
Jesus is the rock, chief corner stone Mathew 16, was what Jesus was referring to in context, Peters words to Jesus; Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

Ephesians 2:20
"of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. ....

Matthew 21:42

'The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. ...

Its all about Jesus, Jesus also said to Peter Matthew 16:23
But turning and seeing his disciples,
he rebuked Peter and said, “Get behind me, Satan!
Peter is no rock, a flawed sinner is all


Anyway we disagree, i think you are wrong, just have to accept we disagree
 
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Raggedyman

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What evidence would you accept?

Do you accept skeletons of animals as evidence?

Creationists keep telling me that there can't be a new species. In plants, new species have been observed.


As evidence of what, dead animals?

Yeah, skeletons are dead animals, no arguments there

What new species of plants are there, genetic manipulated plants, I think that proves intelligent design
 
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PeterDona

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Anyway we disagree, i think you are wrong, just have to accept we disagree
It is a side discussion from the main theme of this thread yes.
Other (confirming) passages that spring to my mind are:
"Thy kingdom come"
"He has put us far above all principality and power" (Eph 1:21)
I think the understanding of the dominion of christians to rule over everything in prayers, and according to the working of Gods power in us, is not a widespread teaching. Some churches practise it, some dont. For my part, I draw on Curry Blake. See a little here if youre intrigued.

 
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Raggedyman

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Thy kingdom come
Meaning
Your kingdom come, please send your kingdom to us as it's not here yet
Thy will be done, Gods will is something we want to come, why, because His will is not done on earth
Want to grow spiritually, closer to God, have more power in the Spirit, in healings, in wealth, in holiness
Stop sinning, read the blessings in the sermon on the mount and ask for them, grow your fruit of the Spirit.
God has called the sick and broken, not the healthy, we beg God to come and do His will

He has put us above principality and powers yet we are sinners who fail and are broken, it's a promise of the future rest. We as Christians are promised struggle against these principalities and powers of this dark world, as described. The greatest blessings described in the bible are explained in the sermon on the mount, it's not the blessings the prosperity gospel preaches, wealth of relationship in Christ of s greater than finances
As Jesus said to pilot, I am not a kin of this place.

If this planet was Gods Kingdom, why send Christ back on a white horse with a sword as described in revelation if not to take back His people from here

This earth is not Gods, God is in heaven.

Again, we disagree, just accept we disagree and try and accept why I disagree, try and understand my viewpoint

Oh your mate preaching, he missed the part where Christ was sinless and was close to the father, hence Christs amazing powers. Want power, stop sinning, want your prayers to work, stop sinning, want spiritual strength, pray for God to unleash the blessing of the sermon on the mount.
This world is going to suffer because of sin, that's a promise, the bible says so
 
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PeterDona

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If this planet was Gods Kingdom, why send Christ back on a white horse with a sword as described in revelation if not to take back His people from here

When Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence."
it does not necessarily mean, that his kingdom will not rule OVER this world. It could mean only, that his kingdom is not OF this world, meaning e.g. that Jesus kingdom is not rooted in earthly matters, but comes from above. (a good government) But still, Jesus does use a strong word, "kingdom". So it must imply government, and a powerful government.

Concerning the sinless position, that is granted us when we enter into Christ, which is what we do at the baptism. Christ gives us his righteousness.

I am not much into what will happen at the end at Christs return. So I can not answer that part of your thoughts.
 
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Raggedyman

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Totally agree
Christs kingdom is spiritual
Christ will need to return to take back the physical and set up His new kingdom.
That is the promise and why we pray thr Lord's Prayer as discussed
 
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classicalhero

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When I saw that the OP stated about "two creation accounts" I knew this person hasn't seriously studied the Bible, otherwise he wouldn't come up with that conclusion.
http://creation.com/genesis-contradictions
 
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Dale

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When I saw that the OP stated about "two creation accounts" I knew this person hasn't seriously studied the Bible, otherwise he wouldn't come up with that conclusion.
http://creation.com/genesis-contradictions



“In addition to the two stories of Creation found in Gen. 1 and 2, there are accounts in Ps. 104 ...”


--Harper's Bible Dictionary under Creation
NY: Harper & Row, 1973
 
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Dale

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When I saw that the OP stated about "two creation accounts" I knew this person hasn't seriously studied the Bible, otherwise he wouldn't come up with that conclusion.
http://creation.com/genesis-contradictions


On two creatons accounts in Genesis, see the following.

Differing Conceptions of the
Divine Creator


Prof. Marc Zvi Brettler


“I begin with a simple question: According to Genesis, in what order were the land animals, man, and women created? This “simple” question has two different answers. According to Genesis 1:24-27, God creates the land animals (vv. 24-25), and then man and woman (vv. 26-27). However, in Genesis 2:7, God creates man, and then in v. 19 creates animals, and in v. 22 creates woman. Thus, the commonly heard idea that Genesis 2 is an elaboration upon Genesis 1, filling in various details, does not work—the two accounts tell different stories.”




Link:
http://thetorah.com/conceptions-of-the-divine-creator/
 
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Dale

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BukiRob

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Dr Gerald Schroeder is spot on when he says that people who debate creation almost always either do not understand the science or the bible or both.
 
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BukiRob

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A lot of assumptions going on there with no basis in fact to support those suppositions.

Scripture does not say Mt Ararat rather it says the ark came to rest on the mountains (plural) of Ararat.

Your suggestion that the mountains of Ararat were "picked" because they were the tallest that the Israelite's knew about its pure, unsubstantiated speculation.

The flood was about G-d eradicating corrupted DNA out of mankind's gene-pool to thwart Satan's attempt to prevent the Messiah from ever being born! Were told that ALL flesh had corrupted its way. Its why not only man, but everything that had the breath of life was destroyed.

Noah was a real person who lived it is NOT a parable.
 
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BukiRob

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Then that person was not reading from or familiar with what scripture tells us. There is a growing body of evidence that there are VAST amounts of water below the earths crust. Recent discoveries tell us that there is more water below the earths surface than in all of the oceans combined. It is in the flood start we see where all the water came from and it was NOT from space.
Genesis 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on the same day all the fountains of the great deep burst open, and the floodgates of the sky were opened. The flood was caused by the water below the earths surface being released and covering it.




Pure speculation without any shred of fact to back up these absurd assertions. No where in scripture does it indicate that there were not predatory animals. NO WHERE.

Just because "some" crackpots who say they are creationists hold to a particular view does not mean that creation science holds those same views.
 
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BukiRob

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More importantly there is absolutely no conflict with our OBSERVED age of the universe and a literal 6 day creation!

Because time is relative based upon where it is observed.

If one is serious about creation science then one of the place to read up on this topics IRC.org Articles posted here are published by scientists. In other words, an article about TIME and Space and creation would be written by a PhD with a degree in physics
 
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BukiRob

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By you sure paint things with ALL and EVERY

I am a literal and could not disagree more with your assertions.

99.99% have bought into the LIE and frankly are even unaware of it. The lie is that pre-antediluvian man was little more than caveman.

Quite the opposite is true. Adam and Eve were geniuses who produced geniuses. Eve would have been the intellectual equal of DaVinci and Einstien and would have made today's most beautiful super model look like plain Jane.

Case in point.... 2 brothers Jubal and Tubal-Cain. All Jubal did was invent music along with all of the stringed instruments along with wind instruments upon which it was played. Yeah, you've got to be insanely brilliant to come up with that. His brother Tubal-Cain somehow figured out that by heating up certain rocks they would melt and then you could produce tools made of Bronze and Iron....

We get a small glimpse of just how smart these people were. So why did the flood come? It came because G-d said that "all flesh had corrupted its way."

Now think about that..... at what point in mankinds history of being fallen has man NOT been corrupted in its way???? Answer:Man has ALWAYS been corrupted in his natural state. That being true, then the Father MUST be speaking about something OTHER than mans fallen state....

We get a second hint when Yeshua tells us that ""For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be."

Seems pretty ordinary life as usual... except that in the days of Noah "all flesh had corrupted its way."

So something more is going on here. First off, the theory that Angels left their station and slept with women is almost certainly not true. Again Yeshua states plainly that Angles are unable to procreate. We know this because when asked about who the woman would be married too after having several husbands who preceded her in death he tells them that they do not understand... and that when we are raised we like the angels will not give or be given to marriage.

The Sethian line (son born to Adam and eve after Able is murdered) is a righteous line that produces Noah. I believe that pre-flood man was manipulating both human and animal DNA and were producing corrupted beings G-d never intended exists.... as a result the human gene pool was corrupted. Satan did this in an effort to PREVENT Messiah from ever coming to man.

This was so common place (altered DNA or genetically modified humans and animals) that if you weren't you were an oddity.

All of this was orchestrated by Satan to prevent Messiah from ever coming to earth.
 
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BukiRob

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I completely disagree and when I read articles on IRC.org I certainly do NOT see what you suggests.

You are trying to lump crack pots who neither understand scripture or science with scientists who are believers and are presenting ACADEMIC arguments for creation
 
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BukiRob

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If the world is about 6,000 years old today then it was about 4,000 years old in New Testament times. Is that too much arithmetic for a creationist?
There are MOUNTAINS of scientific evidence that support a young universe theory.

For example, the Cassini space probe just discovered lakes and ponds of methane near the equator of one of Saturn's moons. This is impossible with a universe that is billions of years old as these methane lakes should have dried up billions of years ago.

Yet another example from Cassini, discovered frozen carbon dioxide on Iapetus, another of Saturn's moons, even though sixty-trillion tons of the carbon dioxide are lost to space during each orbit. To explain this, researchers proposed that it is replenished from below the surface or from impacts, but neither explanation has supporting evidence.

Or how about this gem....
Moving on to cosmic scales, the Hubble Space Telescope team announced in February a new record for the oldest galaxy.7 Despite being nearly as old as the Big Bang in the consensus timescale, it appeared bright and active. A member of the research team said, "We certainly were surprised to find such a bright young galaxy 13 billion years in the past."
 
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