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It is an assumption that drives their claims. Secular scientists assume that God doesn't exist therefore they assume that "God didn't do it." As a result, all scientific claims are made with these assumptions in mind."God didn't do it" is not a claim made by science.
No, the question of God's existence just doesn't come up in scientific discourse. It's an unfalsifiable proposition and has no business there anyway. As usual, this discussion is not really about God's existence or His authorship of our being; it's about the Bible and how some Christians think it should be interpreted.It is an assumption that drives their claims. Secular scientists assume that God doesn't exist therefore they assume that "God didn't do it." As a result, all scientific claims are made with these assumptions in mind.
Is the discussion about the Bible and how it should be interpreted? Because I am fairly certain the discussion is about how God created and/or modified living things on earth. My argument regarding biblical interpretation is that the intent of Genesis was never about explaining how God created the universe and life on earth. Rather, the intent has always been why. The "how" is not relevant to the purpose of the metanarrative.No, the question of God's existence just doesn't come up in scientific discourse. It's an unfalsifiable proposition and has no business there anyway. As usual, this discussion is not really about God's existence or His authorship of our being; it's about the Bible and how some Christians think it should be interpreted.
Saying that the existence of God is an unfalsifiable proposition is a way of saying that the existence of God can never be disproven by science. I wouldn't have thought that was something you would disagree with.That's what Yasser Arafat thought about Israel.
"Israel? there because of fulfillment of prophecy??? Ha! She has no business being there!"
And Mr. Arafat got a good dose of cause-and-effect, didn't he?
But rather than academia learning from its mistakes, academia keeps right on ignoring this scientific principle, and will one day join Mr. Arafat in the Lake of Misfit Collegians.
It is an assumption that drives their claims. Secular scientists assume that God doesn't exist therefore they assume that "God didn't do it." As a result, all scientific claims are made with these assumptions in mind.
To answer the question as to whether or not God selectively breeds animals is difficult to answer seeing how you do not want to hear biblical references. The Bible suggests that the answer is yes but as you stated in the OP, you are not interested to hear about what the Bible says.
And those many scientists who are already Christian have no problem with it. Creationism is not about the existence of God, it's about the Bible.You know, if you replaced all non-religious scientists with Christians, science would still work the same way. The whole purpose of science is to try to find natural explanations for things, because we can't test the supernatural. That's not denying the existence of God, that's just being practical.
I agree. Which is why I originally asked the question as to what the OP hoped to accomplish.You know, if you replaced all non-religious scientists with Christians, science would still work the same way. The whole purpose of science is to try to find natural explanations for things, because we can't test the supernatural. That's not denying the existence of God, that's just being practical.
It can't.Saying that the existence of God is an unfalsifiable proposition is a way of saying that the existence of God can never be disproven by science.
I wasn't aware I was saying that, but if so ... kindly disregard.Speedwell said:I wouldn't have thought that was something you would disagree with.
I agree. Which is why I originally asked the question as to what the OP hoped to accomplish.
The OP is looking for a more stringent explanation to qualify as a valid explanation, along the lines of a scientific theory, and that can't happen because supernatural.
The simple answer to the question is that I do not know. I personally lean towards an "apparent age" theory young earth theistic creationism (if you need an explanation on "apparent age theory" I would be happy to provide one). However, whether through the creation of a single celled organism or by molding a human being from clay, the process may be helpful to better understanding God through His creations but it is ultimately irrelevant to our salvation. There is much debate on God's sovereignty. The fact that God is sovereign essentially means that He has the power, wisdom, and authority to do anything He chooses within His creation. Whether or not He actually exerts that level of control in any given circumstance is actually a completely different question. Often, the concept of divine sovereignty is oversimplified. We tend to assume that, if God is not directly, overtly, purposefully driving some event, then He is somehow not sovereign. So in response to your question, because I know I went a little out of the way, is that the bible suggests that God has a hand in all of creation because of his preeminence over all of creation. However, to what extent does God actively determine the decisions of His creation is debatable.I'm already familiar with what the Bible says so I really don't need it quoted to me. While it doesn't explicitly say anything about God selectively breeding animals, we can explore this all the same.
So how did God go about it? Does God use the same process that human breeders use today? Or is some other process used?
Which life forms did God breed? Did God start with a single celled organism and start from there? Were more complex life forms used? Which are the result of this selective breeding and which are not?
To me a valid explanation has to include the how. That's what I'm trying to get at.
That is a fair question to ask. However, biblically it has never been about "How". Rather, it has always been about why? Science can explain the how. But in regards to life, it cannot explain why? Because "why" implies a purpose and purpose implies that an intelligent being bestowed a purpose onto that creation. This, of course, goes far beyond the scope of physical science and into the metaphysical.To me a valid explanation has to include the how. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Well, the how is supernatural. It's not explainable. It's an omnipotent intelligence doing whatever an omnipotent intelligence wants.
We still have all sorts of unknowns in science that we skirt around. Why does matter have gravity? How does quantum tunneling work? Why is the speed of light in a vacuum the same for every observer? Sometimes an explanation just has to work with what we've got.
That is a fair question to ask. However, biblically it has never been about "How". Rather, it has always been about why? Science can explain the how. But in regards to life, it cannot explain why? Because "why" implies a purpose and purpose implies that an intelligent being bestowed a purpose onto that creation. This, of course, goes far beyond the scope of physical science and into the metaphysical.
great. so we can explain anything in biology by creation too. and thus we dont need evolution to explain it.
Once again I see creationists claiming that "creation" is a valid explanation for life on Earth.
Therefore creationists should be able to explain the mechanisms, processes, forces, etc, involved in the creation and/or modification of living things on Earth via a designer.
Disclaimer: Not interested in Bible quotes. I know what the Bible says and it doesn't explain anything. If you want to invoke God "speaking" things into existence or shaping people out of clay, you need to explain the mechanism, processes, forces, etc behind such an act.
I see that now. Yeah... I think it is best to leave the "How" questions to scientists and the "why" questions to theologians.There are creationists on this forum though that make it about how. I started this thread specifically in response to a post here: Why Argue Against Evolution and a Natural Origin?
These sorts of claims pop up. When they do, I'm interested to see what sorts of explanations creationists have for things.
What makes you think that the validity of creationism lies with our ability to explain it's nature?
If you are genuinely interested in learning more about God, and the answers you have been given haven't satified you, then I will challenge you to simply open up to Him. There's no harm in praying and simply asking God to open yourself to Him. Is this something you've tried before or would be open to try?
I was in a period of my life not long ago where I was in deep depression, anguish, and misery.
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