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Creationist have problems with evolution because evolution makes sense.

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MoonLancer

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CraigBaugher said:
Ok boys & girls...

How many of you believe in UFOs & USOs?
How many believe in superior life forms?
Click to expand...

I would say I believe in the possibility of life in the universe, but i wouldn't say much more then that.

theirs nothing mathematically wrong with the idea of bending space or warping it, gravity does it all the time. we also know gravity bends time as well, but with standard propulsion, i think moving faster then light is unlikely

And did they just evolve too, and they just evolved quicker? Or is their a superior spirit, like God... creating all these beings?
Click to expand...
well i think the common assumption is that their are parts of the universe much older then our own. If conditions like the earth exists someplace else in the universe (which is likely considering the vastness of space), Is it illogical to assume life could not arise someplace other then earth?
 
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thaumaturgy

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CraigBaugher said:
Ok boys & girls...

How many of you believe in UFOs & USOs?
Click to expand...

I fail to believe in UFO's (I have no idea what USO's are, but if it's the United Services Organization, well I've seen a USO at the airport).

I have no reason to believe that the stories of UFO's are necessarily not better explained by mistaken interpretations. If there were extra-terrestrial intellects who have visited the earth one would think there would be more incontrovertible evidence (like a planet nearby with sufficiently advanced life forms to be able to have covered the vast distances between them and us in the time necessary AND still have had time to become as advanced as they'd need to be to do so by now...and yet ironically leave little actual trace of their presence like radio transmissions from their homeworld, etc.)

BUT, and this is the big point: I do not therefore say there is NO INTELLIGENT LIFE "out there".

I merely assume that the UFO accounts we currently have on hand here are likely not that extraordinary thing.


I fail to believe in any of those things since they are not currently in evidence. If such evidence comes to our attention incontrovertibly, then indeed there would be some shifting needed in our understanding.

That's why science is so cool! It can grow and advance as the new information comes in.

And did they just evolve too, and they just evolved quicker? Or is their a superior spirit, like God... creating all these beings?
Click to expand...

Well, cart-before-the-horse, until we find evidence for the things described this is little more than the beginnings of a really good straw-man argument.
 
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Chalnoth

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Then why didn't you state your point when I asked?
 
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Chalnoth

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They're as fanciful as unicorns and leprechauns. At least ones that visit Earth. And I, personally, do not see any life forms as "superior" to any others. Though given just how big the universe is, it seems unlikely to me that there don't exist other civilizations out there that aren't more advanced.
 
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AV1611VET

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thaumaturgy

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AV1611VET said:
My taxes and your scientific colleagues say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Really?

As Chalnoth pointed out and might be key, there's a difference in believing there may be some intelligent life waaay off in the distance that we can trace by radio signal and believing in UFO visitations to the planet earth.

One is not necessarily equivalent to the other. All UFO's from outer space would necessarily be from outer space but not all outer space life would necessarily be here visiting earth, or even capable of it.

The key here is "distance". Radio signals can travel much further and at or near the speed of light. Most physical items cannot get to that speed, certainly not easily. But even life that matches us up to our earliest strong radio broadcast could leave a signal that we might pick up if they are as "close" as 60 or so lightyears away (about 300,000,000,000,000 miles).

So the mere act of monitoring "out there" versus thinking of something as being here are two very different concepts.
 
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AV1611VET

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thaumaturgy said:
As Chalnoth pointed out and might be key, there's a difference in believing there may be some intelligent life waaay off in the distance that we can trace by radio signal and believing in UFO visitations to the planet earth.
Click to expand...
Tell that to your [late] colleague ---
Wikipedia said:
Astronomer Clyde Tombaugh, who admitted to six UFO sightings, including three green fireballs supported the Extraterrestrial hypothesis (ETH) for UFOs and stated he thought scientists who dismissed it without study were being "unscientific."
Click to expand...
Or is he a sore spot with you guys now because of Pluto?

And how much study did you put into it before dismissing it?
 
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MoonLancer

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AV1611VET said:
My taxes and your scientific colleagues say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Show me again where your taxes pay for anything of the sort. I know we have been through this, but if i recall you could not answer anything specific, you simply averted the issue.
 
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CACTUSJACKmankin

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I dont think there is any sufficiently good evidence that extraterrestrial species have visited this planet. There certainly are UFOs (unidentified flying objects) and USOs (unidentified submerged objects) but the logical leap is to claim that they are piloted by aliens as opposed to a simply misidentified terrestrial object.

I think that the chances that life is a unique phenomena to this planet are so slim as to safely be considered impossible. the number of stars in the observable universe has 24 zeros in it. even if life is a 1 in a trillion chance the number of stars with (class m) planets with habitable life is very very large.

I suspect that even if warp drive is physically impossible there will be technological ways around it. that is admittedly a guess.
 
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Chalnoth

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CACTUSJACKmankin said:
I suspect that even if warp drive is physically impossible there will be technological ways around it. that is admittedly a guess.
Click to expand...
Well, failure to have some way of getting around the speed of light limitation doesn't prevent interstellar travel. It just prevents interstellar round trips (as everybody you ever knew would be dead by the time you got back).
 
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USincognito

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CraigBaugher said:
How many of you believe in UFOs & USOs?
Click to expand...

Interesting that you would include USOs. Are you a fan of the subject or do you listen to C2C?

As far as either category of Unidentified objects, people are either seeing something or thinking they're seeing something. The evidence doesn't point to them being ET spacecraft though. Despite enless reports of physical evidence like Alien Implants, Crop circles and crash recoveries, not a single bit of evidence has been produced that definatively points to the Earth being visited by ETs.

CraigBaugher said:
How many believe in superior life forms?
Click to expand...

Define superior and we can talk. There definately could be, if they exist, alien species that have had more time to evolve or have developed civilization longer, survived some of the factors in the Drake Equation and reached Type I, II or III status on the Kardashev scale. I just don't see any evidence that they have.


No. Apparently, if they exist, they've figured things out we haven't yet - including things which we consider purely theoretical at this point.

To paraphrase the old joke, the technologists and theologians climb the mountain to find the science fiction writers waiting for them.

CraigBaugher said:
And did they just evolve too, and they just evolved quicker?
Click to expand...

Carl Sagan said something along the lines that humans could be the first to evolve (someone has to be), we could be the last species surviving the Drake factors or the Universe could be teeming with life. Currently we just don't know and don't have any evidence that anyone other than us is here.

CraigBaugher said:
Or is their a superior spirit, like God... creating all these beings?
Click to expand...



eta - So, any comments on the numerous replies to your plant evolution question?
 
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Chalnoth

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AV1611VET said:
Tell that to your [late] colleague ---Or is he a sore spot with you guys now because of Pluto?

And how much study did you put into it before dismissing it?
Click to expand...
That which is presented without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Nobody has yet presented any verifiable evidence for UFO's. It's as simple as that.
 
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Chalnoth

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AV1611VET said:
Verify the unidentified --- now there's a concept!
Click to expand...
Right, so we can start talking about aliens on Earth when somebody brings something forward that is actually, you know, alien. It could be as simple as a bacteria or a few cells and it would be absolutely definitive.
 
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AV1611VET

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Chalnoth said:
Right, so we can start talking about aliens on Earth when somebody brings something forward that is actually, you know, alien. It could be as simple as a bacteria or a few cells and it would be absolutely definitive.
Click to expand...
But we're not talking about bacteria or a few cells under a microscope, are we?

We're talking about an assembled transport vehicle capable of interstellar travel.

Which brings up another point:

Possibly moves as fast as the speed of light, yet parts or pictures are needed for verification.
 
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Chalnoth

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AV1611VET said:
But we're not talking about bacteria or a few cells under a microscope, are we?
Click to expand...
That's not what the UFO enthusiasts are talking about, because they have no clue what real evidence would consist of.

AV1611VET said:
We're talking about an assembled transport vehicle capable of interstellar travel.

Which brings up another point:

Possibly moves as fast as the speed of light, yet parts or pictures are needed for verification.
Click to expand...
So "it's hard" means that we have valid reason to believe in it even without evidence? Come on! If you go that route, I can make up whatever I please and you have to think it's okay to believe in it as long as the evidence is hard to find!
 
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