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Creationist flood challenge

Pete Harcoff

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For those who believe in the world-wide flood of Noah, I would like to see a couple things answered with respect to the flood and geology:

1) Which geological strata are pre-flood, which strata were laid down during the flood, and which strata are post-flood?

2) Based on the geological evidence, what is the time frame for the flood; when did it occur and how long was it? (note the bolded section)
 

Frumious Bandersnatch

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Pete Harcoff said:
For those who believe in the world-wide flood of Noah, I would like to see a couple things answered with respect to the flood and geology:

1) Which geological strata are pre-flood, which strata were laid down during the flood, and which strata are post-flood?

2) Based on the geological evidence, what is the time frame for the flood; when did it occur and how long was it? (note the bolded section)

You aren't seriously expecting answers to these questions are you? If you are can I have some of what you must be smoking?

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Frumious Bandersnatch said:
You aren't seriously expecting answers to these questions are you? If you are can I have some of what you must be smoking?

Oh I know. But you'd think the inability for creationist flood geology to answer such basic questions would be cause for concern among creationists.

I'd be interested to see if any of the forum's flood proponents take a stab at it, but yeah, I don't think anyone can answer these.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Pete Harcoff said:
Oh I know. But you'd think the inability for creationist flood geology to answer such basic questions would be cause for concern among creationists.

I'd be interested to see if any of the forum's flood proponents take a stab at it, but yeah, I don't think anyone can answer these.

It doesn't bother them at all that layers deposited by this supposedly unique event that supposedly rearranged all the world's geology can't be distinguished from layers that were supposedly laid down either before or after the flood by totally different processes. Once you have made the huge leaps of illogic necessary to ignore all the other falsifications of the global flood this becomes a minor problem. After all when you can claim that desert deposits, fossil soils and massive layers of evaporated salt were formed during a worldwide flood the fact that you can't tell exactly what layers are flood deposits seems trivial. When Answers in Genesis gets their museum built they should put a sign over the door that says All logic abandon ye who enter here.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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Alessandro

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What evidence would one expect from a global watery cataclysm that drowned the animals, birds and people not on the Ark? All around the world, in rock layer after rock layer, there are billions of dead things that have been buried in water-carried mud and sand. Their state of preservation frequently tells of rapid burial and fossilization, just like one would expect in such a flood.

There is abundant evidence that many of the rock strata were laid down quickly, one after the other, without significant time breaks between them. Preservation of animal tracks, ripple marks and even raindrop marks, testifies to rapid covering of these features to enable their preservation. Polystrate fossils (ones which traverse many strata) speak of very quick deposition of the strata. The scarcity of erosion, soil formation, animal burrows and roots between layers also shows they must have been deposited in quick succession. The radical deformation of thick layers of sediment without evidence of cracking or melting also shows how all the layers must have been still soft when they were bent. Dykes (walls) and pipes (cylinders) of sandstone which connect with the same material many layers beneath show that the layers beneath must have been still soft, and contained much water. That the sandstone could be squeezed up through cracks above to form the 'clastic' dykes and pipes, again shows rapid deposition of many strata.

The world-wide distribution of many geological features and rock types is also consistent with a global Flood. The Morrison Formation is a layer of sedimentary rock that extends from Texas to Canada, clearly showing the fallacy of the still popular belief that 'the present is the key to the past' - there are no processes occurring on earth today that are laying down such large areas of sedimentary layers. In reality God's revelation about the past is the key to understanding the present.

The limited goegraphic extent of unconformities (clear breaks in the sequence of deposition with different tiltings of layers, etc.), is also consistent with the reality of the global Flood. And there are many other evidences for the Flood.
 
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troodon

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Alessandro said:
The Morrison Formation is a layer of sedimentary rock that extends from Texas to Canada

How about you try and explain why there are no birds, no sea life, and no modern mammals in the Morrison ;)

I bet you can't
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Alessandro said:
There is abundant evidence that many of the rock strata were laid down quickly, one after the other, without significant time breaks between them.

Then it should be obvious which strata are pre-flood strata, which strata the flood laid down, and which are post-flood strata. So which strata are which?
 
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troodon

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Alessandro said:
As simple as it is, I must refuse, if I did what would that achieve, more denial.
I haven't denied anything.... yet :D

You must understand that I am not trying to convince you of anything, nor am I bashing your views, I am merely stating what I believe.

I'm just asking your opinion as to why there are no modern mammals, no sea life, or any birds whatsoever in the Morrison. Shouldn't we see prairie dogs, buffalo, deer, bears, squirrels, or wolves if the Morrison covers almost the entire American mid-West? Just asking :cool:
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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Alessandro said:
You tell me ;)

The answer is quite simple. The animals fossilized in the Morrison formation lived and died millions of years before the appearance of modern mammals. Millions of fossils of eocene, miocene and pleistocene mammals have been found found all over the world as are millions of dinosaur fossils, but never in the same strata.

As to the reason that creationists can't tell exactly which strata were deposited by a worldwide flood that is also quite simple. There are NO strata that were deposited by a worldwide flood.

The Fumious Bandersnatch
 
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David Gould

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Frumious Bandersnatch said:
As to the reason that creationists can't tell exactly which strata were deposited by a worldwide flood that is also quite simple. There are NO strata that were deposited by a worldwide flood.

The Fumious Bandersnatch

Exactly ...

Alessandro, if you are truly interested in examining the truth or otherwise of the global flood story, this is a question that is interesting to examine. Go to other creationist web sites. Show them Pete's challenge. See if they have an answer - and don't be fobbed off. Get them to answer, yes or no, as to whether they can tell which deposits are the flood deposits. Then at least you will get an idea for where the science of creation science is at.
 
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Frumious Bandersnatch

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There is abundant evidence that many of the rock strata were laid down quickly, one after the other, without significant time breaks between them.

This is false. Have you ever heard of angular unconformities? How about paleosols? How about evaporites?

The Frumious Bandersnatch
 
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David Gould

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Alessandro said:
Not false but different to what you believe.

As an off topic aside, do you accept that it is possible that your beliefs are incorrect? Or are you a post-modernist, seeing everyone's views as being equally true? Or do you know that what you believe is the truth (obviously you believe that what you believe is the truth - if you didn't, you wouldn't believe it ;))
 
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