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Creationism’s Evolution

Washington

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The interesting recap of the evolution of creationism here ↓ is part of a larger Dec. 2008 Scientific American article titled, "The Latest Face of Creationism in the Classroom," which I encourage everyone to read.
Creationists have long battled against the teaching of evolution in U.S. public schools, and their strategies have evolved in reaction to legal setbacks. In the 1920s they attempted to ban the teaching of evolution outright, with laws such as Tennessee’s Butler Act, under which teacher John T. Scopes was prosecuted in 1925. It was not until 1968 that such laws were ruled to be unconstitutional, in the Supreme Court case Epperson v. Arkansas. No longer able to keep evolution out of the science classrooms of the public schools, creationists began to portray creationism as a scientifically credible alternative, dubbing it creation science or scientific creationism. By the early 1980s legislation calling for equal time for creation science had been introduced in no fewer than 27 states, including Louisiana. There, in 1981, the legislature passed the Balanced Treatment for Creation-Science and Evolution-Science in Public School Instruction Act, which required teachers to teach creation science if they taught evolution.The Louisiana Balanced Treatment Act was based on a model bill circulated across the country by creationists working at the grassroots level. Obviously inspired by a particular literal interpretation of the book of Genesis, the model bill defined creation science as including creation ex nihilo (“from nothing”), a worldwide flood, a “relatively recent inception” of the earth, and a rejection of the common ancestry of humans and apes. In Arkansas, such a bill was enacted earlier in 1981 and promptly challenged in court as unconstitutional. So when the Louisiana Balanced Treatment Act was still under consideration by the state legislature, supporters, anticipating a similar challenge, immediately purged the bill’s definition of creation science of specifics, leaving only “the scientific evidences for creation and inferences from those scientific evidences.” But this tactical vagueness failed to render the law constitutional, and in 1987 the Supreme Court ruled in Edwards v. Aguillard that the Balanced Treatment Act violated the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution, because the act “impermissibly endorses religion by advancing the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind.”

Creationism adapts quickly. Just two years later a new label for creationism—“intelligent design”—was introduced in the supplementary textbook Of Pandas and People, produced by the Foundation for Thought and Ethics, which styles itself a Christian think tank. Continuing the Louisiana Balanced Treatment Act’s strategy of reducing overt religious content, intelligent design is advertised as not based on any sacred texts and as not requiring any appeal to the supernatural. The designer, the proponents say, might be God, but it might be space aliens or time-traveling cell biologists from the future. Mindful that teaching creationism in the public schools is unconstitutional, they vociferously reject any characterization of intelligent design as a form of creationism. Yet on careful inspection, intelligent design proves to be a rebranding of creationism—silent on a number of creation science’s distinctive claims (such as the young age of the earth and the historicity of Noah’s flood) but otherwise riddled with the same scientific errors and entangled with the same religious doctrines.

Such a careful inspection occurred in a federal courtroom in 2005, in the trial of Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District. At issue was a policy in a local school district in Pennsylvania requiring a disclaimer to be read aloud in the classroom alleging that evolution is a “Theory...not a fact,” that “gaps in the Theory exist for which there is no evidence,” and that intelligent design as presented in Of Pandas and People is a credible scientific alternative to evolution. Eleven local parents filed suit in federal district court, arguing that the policy was unconstitutional. After a trial that spanned a biblical 40 days, the judge agreed, ruling that the policy violated the Establishment Clause and writing, “In making this determination, we have addressed the seminal question of whether [intelligent design] is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that [intelligent design] cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents.”

The expert witness testimony presented in the Kitzmiller trial was devastating for intelligent design’s scientific pretensions. Intelligent design was established to be creationism lite: at the trial philosopher Barbara Forrest, co-author of Creationism’s Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design, revealed that references to creationism in Of Pandas and People drafts were replaced with references to design shortly after the 1987 Edwards decision striking down Louisiana’s Balanced Treatment Act was issued. She even found a transitional form, where the replacement of “creationists” by “design proponents” was incomplete—“cdesign proponentsists” was the awkward result. More important, intelligent design was also established to be scientifically bankrupt: one of the expert witnesses in the trial, biochemist Michael Behe, testified that no articles have been published in the scientific research literature that “provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred”—and he was testifying in defense of the school board’s policy.
SOURCE

Four more pages of the article follow at the source site.
 

Hespera

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The USA is a strange place, so modern and sophisticated in some ways, and yet with its feet still in the intellectual dark ages. Well, no, creationism predates the dark ages even.

Its a source of embarrassment to educated Americans, and something for those who wish us ill to laugh and sneer at. Our friends hope we will grow up.

Its nice that creationists dont like to blow things up but the living fossil level of rigid unreason that we find so disturbing about the Taliban and their 12th century beliefs is not so different on an intellectual level from the beliefs of creationists.
 
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The USA is a strange place, so modern and sophisticated in some ways, and yet with its feet still in the intellectual dark ages. Well, no, creationism predates the dark ages even.

Its a source of embarrassment to educated Americans, and something for those who wish us ill to laugh and sneer at. Our friends hope we will grow up.

Its nice that creationists dont like to blow things up but the living fossil level of rigid unreason that we find so disturbing about the Taliban and their 12th century beliefs is not so different on an intellectual level from the beliefs of creationists.
I do indeed hope that you will grow up, and I think misinterpretation of the bill of rights plays a big part,
it would seem that people are allowed to bring down the county in pursuit of their individual rights,
I would have thought the rights of the country came first, but what do I know,
( I understand that the American people are afraid of their government, that's why they keep their guns)
if everyone in the US was a creationist, the US would be a third world country compared to Afghanistan.

And there is a difference between the Taliban and creationists,
the Taliban will kill people who try to stop them living the way they want, however evil it is,
creationists on the other hand only want to ruin every ones life,
the one similarity they do have is that both are wasting their time believing in old books.

Also the argument about why God has forsaken the US is invalid,
because the US has more people who say they believe in a God, than don't,
either that or it's the (so called) Christians doing all of the sinning.
(done in the name of their God of course)

Who would they blame if there were no Gods? perhaps they should have hundreds like the Romans did.

Think about all of those people who died before the coming of Christ,
where did their immortal souls go? perhaps they just died like all of the other animals.
 
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Tinker Grey

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Well, no, creationism predates the dark ages even.
I'd like to exercise my innate pedantry here. When I think of an "ism" and specifically when I think of creationISM, I think of a position that exists to be a contrast to some other position. If no one believed in a god anywhere in the known world, then the concept of atheism would not exist. Since there was no concept of God creating the world (in the west) in any way other than what was stated in Genesis. (Though, of course, it should be noted that some intellectuals in the Christian and Jewish community suspected that the text was a greatly simplified explication if not outright allegorical/metaphorical. See Maimonides and Augustine.)

As such, creationISM could not and did not exist until the common understanding was challenged. That is, creationism is only as old as Origin of Species.
 
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Hespera

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I'd like to exercise my innate pedantry here. When I think of an "ism" and specifically when I think of creationISM, I think of a position that exists to be a contrast to some other position. If no one believed in a god anywhere in the known world, then the concept of atheism would not exist. Since there was no concept of God creating the world (in the west) in any way other than what was stated in Genesis. (Though, of course, it should be noted that some intellectuals in the Christian and Jewish community suspected that the text was a greatly simplified explication if not outright allegorical/metaphorical. See Maimonides and Augustine.)

As such, creationISM could not and did not exist until the common understanding was challenged. That is, creationism is only as old as Origin of Species.

I see that my effort to avoid being pedantic ans use a shortcut way of expressing an idea didnt do much to prevent a surfeit of pedanticism on a obvious point
 
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Hespera

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I do indeed hope that you will grow up, and I think misinterpretation of the bill of rights plays a big part,
it would seem that people are allowed to bring down the county in pursuit of their individual rights,
I would have thought the rights of the country came first, but what do I know,
( I understand that the American people are afraid of their government, that's why they keep their guns)
if everyone in the US was a creationist, the US would be a third world country compared to Afghanistan.

And there is a difference between the Taliban and creationists,
the Taliban will kill people who try to stop them living the way they want, however evil it is,
creationists on the other hand only want to ruin every ones life,
the one similarity they do have is that both are wasting their time believing in old books.

Also the argument about why God has forsaken the US is invalid,
because the US has more people who say they believe in a God, than don't,
either that or it's the (so called) Christians doing all of the sinning.
(done in the name of their God of course)

Who would they blame if there were no Gods? perhaps they should have hundreds like the Romans did.

Think about all of those people who died before the coming of Christ,
where did their immortal souls go? perhaps they just died like all of the other animals.


Why are you saying you "hope I grow up"? Am i expressing what seem to you like childish ideas? I need to grow up because I am misinterpreting the bill of rights???

Creationists and Taliban. Lots of differences. Intellectual level of rigid out of date beliefs, pretty much the same.
 
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MoonLancer

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MoonLancer

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Creationists and Taliban. Lots of differences. Intellectual level of rigid out of date beliefs, pretty much the same.

As I see it and I have said before, I think the difference between extremist Muslims vs extremist Baptists or other fundamentalists is the cultural influence that is NOT derived from the bible/koran. It is the secular laws such as the bill of rights that keep us from becoming too much like Muslim extremists.

Basically In some places, the koran is the guide to the laws of the lands. If the koran is taken literally and is applied to the culture directly, that's when one sees its folly and faults. Now granted the bible is not as extreme as the koran but its close. If the bibles words were taken literally and turned into law, America would be much like these Muslim countries that war with each other and the world and fly planes into buildings or stone little kids.

theirs also a resource component i am aware of, but i wont get into.
 
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AV1611VET

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Now granted the bible is not as extreme as the koran but its close. If the bibles words were taken literally and turned into law, America would be much like these Muslim countries that war with each other and the world and fly planes into buildings or stone little kids.
I'll say this much, MoonLancer --- you're not too far off with this post --- the difference is who is at the helm.

If the U.S. Constitution consisted of the Bible --- and, if you atheists ran this country based on how you guys interpret the Bibe (i.e. allegorically and w/o regard to context or dispensation), then this is what we can expect:

  1. slavery
  2. stoning of children for disobedience to parents
  3. genocide to any nation that crosses us
  4. Saturday as the Lord's Day
  5. April 1st as a national holiday
Like I said, I can't believe this website correctly reflects the attitudes of real atheists and scientists worldwide.

If it does, then I need to get out more.

But if you guys ran this country according to the way you guys interpret the Bible, this country would be in very bad shape.
 
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gaara4158

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I'll say this much, MoonLancer --- you're not too far off with this post --- the difference is who is at the helm.

If the U.S. Constitution consisted of the Bible --- and, if you atheists ran this country based on how you guys interpret the Bibe (i.e. allegorically and w/o regard to context or dispensation), then this is what we can expect:

  1. slavery
  2. stoning of children for disobedience to parents
  3. genocide to any nation that crosses us
  4. Saturday as the Lord's Day
  5. April 1st as a national holiday
Like I said, I can't believe this website correctly reflects the attitudes of real atheists and scientists worldwide.

If it does, then I need to get out more.

But if you guys ran this country according to the way you guys interpret the Bible, this country would be in very bad shape.
What possible context or circumstance could possibly justify the stoning of stubborn toddlers?
 
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CACTUSJACKmankin

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I'll say this much, MoonLancer --- you're not too far off with this post --- the difference is who is at the helm.

If the U.S. Constitution consisted of the Bible --- and, if you atheists ran this country based on how you guys interpret the Bibe (i.e. allegorically and w/o regard to context or dispensation), then this is what we can expect:

  1. slavery
  2. stoning of children for disobedience to parents
  3. genocide to any nation that crosses us
  4. Saturday as the Lord's Day
  5. April 1st as a national holiday
Like I said, I can't believe this website correctly reflects the attitudes of real atheists and scientists worldwide.

If it does, then I need to get out more.

But if you guys ran this country according to the way you guys interpret the Bible, this country would be in very bad shape.
because american christians didnt engage in slavery, committ genocide against the natives, or hang witches. Nope! that was atheists
 
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AV1611VET

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What possible context or circumstance could possibly justify the stoning of stubborn toddlers?
You tell me --- it's you guys that think the Bible teaches the stoning of "stubborn toddlers" --- not us.
 
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AV1611VET

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because american christians didnt engage in slavery, committ genocide against the natives, or hang witches. Nope! that was atheists
I have no idea what point you just made here.

If tomorrow the Bible was declared our Constitution, and if tomorrow you guys were chosen to run this country the way you guys have been interpreting It here in this forum; then starting tomorrow, we're in trouble.
 
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gaara4158

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You tell me --- it's you guys that think the Bible teaches the stoning of "stubborn toddlers" --- not us.
Alright, enlighten me with what the Bible is really referring to when it says

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city, to the gate of his city. And they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones; so you shall put away the evil from among you, and all Israel shall hear and fear.
 
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MoonLancer

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You tell me --- it's you guys that think the Bible teaches the stoning of "stubborn toddlers" --- not us.

Its because you look the other way at all the bad parts of the bible. Muslim extremists don't. They take it and swallow it whole. Now granted it says if you die in the name of Ala that all your sins are forgiven and you get sexy virgins . The bible has a different delima where if you confess regardless of yoru wrongs in life, you are forgiven. basically a blank check.

You don't take all parts literally, only some parts. Clearly this is BECAUSE of the secular greatness that is at the heart of our country. It has shaped even the view of your bible.
 
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MoonLancer

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I have no idea what point you just made here.

If tomorrow the Bible was declared our Constitution, and if tomorrow you guys were chosen to run this country the way you guys have been interpreting It here in this forum; then starting tomorrow, we're in trouble.

You may not think the bible says these things, but it would be disingenuous to say that the bible was never interpreted that way by christains.
 
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