Creation debate the Progressive SDA side

RND said:

There is no difference in the sabbath commandment between Ex. 20 and Deut. 5. The only difference cited is the 'reason' for observing it. The second stated reason doesn't cancel or negate the first stated reason. God is still the creator and the sabbath is still a reminder of His creation.

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If the reason for observing the seventh-day sabbath is to remember the exodus from Egypt, what relevance does this remembrance have for me, a modern-day Gentile?

Could this be the very reason that the sabbath was a sign between God and the Israelites?

BFA

RND said:

There is no difference in the sabbath commandment between Ex. 20 and Deut. 5. The only difference cited is the 'reason' for observing it. The second stated reason doesn't cancel or negate the first stated reason. God is still the creator and the sabbath is still a reminder of His creation.

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There are differences in how SDA and Jewish scholars and most protestant experts understand it.

First of all, SDA often debate the command part of this 4th commandment, and explain to no end that REMEMBER means; a look back to a creation instituted sabbath.

Exd 20:8¶Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Moses easily explains what God said and meant in Deut 5.
Deu 5:12¶Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.


Some of us know that "remember" meant "continue to keep." (as the Lord commanded thee, not Adam)


(Welcome back RND)

Byfaithalone1 said:

If the reason for observing the seventh-day sabbath is to remember the exodus from Egypt, what relevance does this remembrance have for me, a modern-day Gentile?

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Egypt is typology for sin and repression. Coming out of Egypt is typology for coming out of sin and repression. That's is why the sabbath is a dual reminder of God's 6-day creation and His redemption.

Could this be the very reason that the sabbath was a sign between God and the Israelites?

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Sure. Do you not consider yourself an adopted Israelite?

Cribstyl said:

There are differences in how SDA and Jewish scholars and most protestant experts understand it.

First of all, SDA often debate the command part of this 4th commandment, and explain to no end that REMEMBER means; a look back to a creation instituted sabbath.

Exd 20:8¶Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Moses easily explains what God said and meant in Deut 5.
Deu 5:12¶Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.


Some of us know that "remember" meant "continue to keep." (as the Lord commanded thee, not Adam)


(Wecome back RND)

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Crib, I've never been confused with what remember means and I completely agree with you. I see the reasons as for "remembering" what the sabbath represented as being the creation and redemption of the Lord.

RND said:

Egypt is typology for sin and repression. Coming out of Egypt is typology for coming out of sin and repression.

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What is the basis of these conclusions?

At what point did the sabbath begin to have jurisdiction over me?

Do I come out of sin and repression in this life or are you suggesting that the sabbath is a shadow that points forward to a future event when I will come out of sin and represession?

If the sabbath is the shadow of a future event, what can we learn from this? What has happened to observances that were a shadow of that which is yet to come?

Sure. Do you not consider yourself an adopted Israelite?

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No. I do not endorse replacement theology. Rather, I note that I am a wild branch who has been grafted in among natural branches. That grafting does not make me a natural branch. I remain what I've always been -- a wild branch.

BFA

Byfaithalone1 said:

What is the basis of these conclusions?

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The Bible.

At what point did the sabbath begin to have jurisdiction over me?

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I would imagine the moment you accepted the word of God as being a direct revelation of His nature and character.

Do I come out of sin and repression in this life or are you suggesting that the sabbath is a shadow that points forward to a future event when I will come out of sin and represession?

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No. I think I was fairly clear that the sabbath is a remembrance of God's creation and His redemption. As the Son of God was called out of Egypt coming out of sin and repression can only come through Christ...not the sabbath. Thus the sabbath is a reminder of God's work.

If the sabbath is the shadow of a future event, what can we learn from this? What has happened to observances that were a shadow of that which is yet to come?

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Is your coming out of sin and repression a future event or has that already happened in Christ? I would bet it has already happened for you. Thus the sabbath is a reminder of being "called out" of sin and repression by God through Christ. The reminders that were shadows such as killing a sheep have obviously been put away with the sacrifice of Christ.

No. I do not endorse replacement theology. Rather, I note that I am a wild branch who has been grafted in among natural branches. That grafting does not make me a natural branch. I remain what I've always been -- a wild branch.

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What a shame.

Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

RND said:

The Bible.

I would imagine the moment you accepted the word of God as being a direct revelation of His nature and character.

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Where in the Bible can I find confirmation that (i) "coming out of Egypt is typology for coming out of sin and repression" or (ii) the seventh-day sabbath has jurisdiction over me? Have you merely assumed these things? Although I can't confirm these ideas in Scripture, I have noticed that "the bond woman" represented the covenant that was from Sinai. This is the bondage that we are not to live under.

No. I think I was fairly clear that the sabbath is a remembrance of God's creation and His redemption.

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When the Israelites observed the sabbath, did their observance point backward to redemption that had already occurred or did their observance point forward to a redemption event that was yet to come?

For the Israelites, was the sabbath a shadow of that which was yet to come?

Is your coming out of sin and repression a future event or has that already happened in Christ?

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This corruptible has not yet put on incorruption. This corruptible has not come out of sin. There is no truth in the man who claims he has come out of sin (1 John 1:8).

What a shame.

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Our Jewish friends (such as messianic jews) would find it a shame that someone would twist Galatians 3:26 to suggest that the church has replaced Israel as God's chosen. Galatians 3:26 makes no mention of that, nor does it confirm your belief that believers become Israelites. Rather, Romans 11 confirms that Gentile believers remain wild branches.

You seem to excel at creative reading.

BFA

RND said:

Crib, I've never been confused with what remember means and I completely agree with you. I see the reasons as for "remembering" what the sabbath represented as being the creation and redemption of the Lord.

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Huhhh???

Are you saying: Remember the sabbath means


(A)"keep the sabbath"

( B) " remember a creation intituted sabbath" ..?

Cribstyl said:

Huhhh???

Are you saying: Remember the sabbath means


(A)"keep the sabbath"

( B) " remember a creation intituted sabbath" ..?

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No. I'm saying "remember" means to remember the reasons for observing and celebrating the sabbath day.

RND said:

No. I'm saying "remember" means to remember the reasons for observing and celebrating the sabbath day.

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Some words have many multiple definitions and understanding.
The structure of the words in the 4th commandment in Ex20 proves that; "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy" seems debatable but it's not. The questions is does "remember" just means " dont forget to keep" or "look back to a (falsely reasoned) creation sabbath".

This phrase is explained by Moses to be an absolute command to "keep" going forward. Deu 5:12¶Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.





Added commentary has made it appear that Moses meant creation by "remember". The fact that the context explains "Why" to keep the sabbath is another reason to distinguish the command from the reason explained.