Creation and odd response....

JacksLadder · Mar 15, 2009

I am currently a general monotheist but am looking back into Christianity and decided to ask a friend about it. I also did some church shopping.
Well I found creation to be a hot topic lately for some reason.

I can talk to my six day creationist believing buddy about Genesis and he can see easily see how I can read Genesis as allegory and agree to disagree because the "creation how" is really a minor point compared to what Jesus did. But when I brought this up at his churches Bible study hour I was berated as supporting atheism???? All I did was mention how I think science finds the how and the religion tells the why....is that so odd of a concept?

BobW188 · Mar 15, 2009

Welcome to the wonderful, wide, wacky world of Christianity. We may be sinners; but we keep God in stitches.
A substantial number of us take Genesis literally. Others, like you, allegorically. Many do, and many do not, see evolutionary processes as conflicting with Scripture. Those of us who are prepared to entertain or accept evolution obviously would disagree that God is "not necessary" to it.
I am one of those who think your how/why approach is very good. I respect the right of your friend's church to disagree; but doubt it is the place for you. I'd hang on to the friend but keep shopping. Church members and pastors are usually quite forthcoming about what they believe and how. Also, all of us attune to different worship styles: contemporary, traditional, liturgical/nonliturgical, creedal/noncreedal, etc, etc and at least seemingly ad. inf.
If you are really unfamiliar with Christianity, I'd suggest you get a copy of C. S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. You'll likely find it at B&N or Borders; and Amazon should have it in a wide range of prices and covers. Lewis taught at both Oxford and Cambridge but, as the book is based on radio talks and talks to servicemen in WWII, the book is pretty readable.

ebia · Mar 16, 2009

JacksLadder said:
I am currently a general monotheist but am looking back into Christianity and decided to ask a friend about it. I also did some church shopping.
Well I found creation to be a hot topic lately for some reason.

I can talk to my six day creationist believing buddy about Genesis and he can see easily see how I can read Genesis as allegory and agree to disagree because the "creation how" is really a minor point compared to what Jesus did. But when I brought this up at his churches Bible study hour I was berated as supporting atheism???? All I did was mention how I think science finds the how and the religion tells the why....is that so odd of a concept?

Some people seem to view their faith as though it were a house of cards.

Not to contradict the previous poster, but a newer alternative would be Tom Wright's Simply Christian which is produced in the same spirit as Mere Christianity, but for the 21st century where the former is very much of the 20th.

Criada · Mar 16, 2009

There are a great many Christians who do not believe the early chapters of Genesis to be a literal account.
A lot of people get hung up on this, but it really isn't an essential point of Christianity.
The important thing is how you relate to Jesus. You say you are already a monotheist, so Christ is the difference between your beliefs and Christianity. Can I suggest that rather than Genesis, you study the gospels, look at the man, Jesus, and the claims He made.
Because really, knowing Him and loving Him are what matters.. disagreeing on the details doesn't matter so much.

Criada · Mar 16, 2009

double post.

JacksLadder · Mar 16, 2009

BobW188 said:
Welcome to the wonderful, wide, wacky world of Christianity. We may be sinners; but we keep God in stitches.
A substantial number of us take Genesis literally. Others, like you, allegorically. Many do, and many do not, see evolutionary processes as conflicting with Scripture. Those of us who are prepared to entertain or accept evolution obviously would disagree that God is "not necessary" to it.
I am one of those who think your how/why approach is very good. I respect the right of your friend's church to disagree; but doubt it is the place for you. I'd hang on to the friend but keep shopping. Church members and pastors are usually quite forthcoming about what they believe and how. Also, all of us attune to different worship styles: contemporary, traditional, liturgical/nonliturgical, creedal/noncreedal, etc, etc and at least seemingly ad. inf.
If you are really unfamiliar with Christianity, I'd suggest you get a copy of C. S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. You'll likely find it at B&N or Borders; and Amazon should have it in a wide range of prices and covers. Lewis taught at both Oxford and Cambridge but, as the book is based on radio talks and talks to servicemen in WWII, the book is pretty readable.

Thanks I will check it out. I am military so I should be able to connect with that if it was made by talking with the troops.

JacksLadder · Mar 16, 2009

ebia said:
Some people seem to view their faith as though it were a house of cards.

Not to contradict the previous poster, but a newer alternative would be Tom Wright's Simply Christian which is produced in the same spirit as Mere Christianity, but for the 21st century where the former is very much of the 20th.

Thanks for the book suggestion also

JacksLadder · Mar 16, 2009

Criada said:
There are a great many Christians who do not believe the early chapters of Genesis to be a literal account.
A lot of people get hung up on this, but it really isn't an essential point of Christianity.
The important thing is how you relate to Jesus. You say you are already a monotheist, so Christ is the difference between your beliefs and Christianity. Can I suggest that rather than Genesis, you study the gospels, look at the man, Jesus, and the claims He made.
Because really, knowing Him and loving Him are what matters.. disagreeing on the details doesn't matter so much.

You know what is odd... I can deal with the Jesus rising from the dead part its the part/whole of God/Trinity/savior part that is hard to understand for me.

Criada · Mar 16, 2009

JacksLadder said:
You know what is odd... I can deal with the Jesus rising from the dead part its the part/whole of God/Trinity/savior part that is hard to understand for me.

What exactly is it that is hard to understand?
If it is the concept of the Trinity... you are in very good company. Many eminent theologians through the ages have struggled with that one.. and I have yet to find a clear explanation. But... I have experienced all three persons of the Trinity at different times and in different ways... and though I can't explain the whole 'three in one ' thing, I find I can accept it.
The thing is, He is God... and I only have a human brain, so expecting to be able to understand is probably hubris. If we could could understand Him, then He wouldn't really be God.
But, if you accept that Jesus rose from the dead, that is a very big step, and a stumbling block for many. Really, once you come to know Jesus, the details fall into place.

GreenMunchkin · Mar 16, 2009

JacksLadder said:
You know what is odd... I can deal with the Jesus rising from the dead part its the part/whole of God/Trinity/savior part that is hard to understand for me.

Hi

As Criada said, the Trinity isn't something any of us can claim to understand logistically... but, I guess I sort of see it in the way water can come in 3 states: water, ice and vapour. They're precisely the same thing, but they exist in different forms.

It doesn't even begin to explain the complexity (and abject unknowability) but it makes the Trinity seem a little less incomprehensible.

JacksLadder · Mar 17, 2009

GreenMunchkin said:
Hi

As Criada said, the Trinity isn't something any of us can claim to understand logistically... but, I guess I sort of see it in the way water can come in 3 states: water, ice and vapour. They're precisely the same thing, but they exist in different forms.

It doesn't even begin to explain the complexity (and abject unknowability) but it makes the Trinity seem a little less incomprehensible.

O.k. I guess we have to get into leap of faith territory sometimes.

Chesterton · Mar 17, 2009

You're a Christian seeker who's yet a Calvinist? Hmm... And a liberal Calvinist at that. Okay...

JacksLadder · Mar 17, 2009

Chesterton said:
You're a Christian seeker who's yet a Calvinist? Hmm... And a liberal Calvinist at that. Okay...

It's my way of saying I am confused

GreenMunchkin · Mar 17, 2009

JacksLadder said:
O.k. I guess we have to get into leap of faith territory sometimes.

Definitely. But I think there's enough stuff that's, I guess, verifiable to make those leaps of faith valid.

divided sky · Mar 17, 2009

JacksLadder said:
because the "creation how" is really a minor point compared to what Jesus did.

It's not a minor how. If creation didn't literally happen as outlined in Genesis, then the death of Jesus was not necessary.

JacksLadder · Mar 17, 2009

divided sky said:
It's not a minor how. If creation didn't literally happen as outlined in Genesis, then the death of Jesus was not necessary.

Not sure what you mean by this since your profile says Theistic evolution. What do you mean by creation?

divided sky · Mar 17, 2009

JacksLadder said:
Not sure what you mean by this since your profile says Theistic evolution. What do you mean by creation?

It doesn't matter what my profile says. The most important question is will you make a decision for Jesus Christ right now? That's all that matters. All this questioning and wishy-washiness is wasting time. The Lord is coming back soon. The world is about to collapse. What's your decision?

ebia · Mar 17, 2009

JacksLadder said:
You know what is odd... I can deal with the Jesus rising from the dead part its the part/whole of God/Trinity/savior part that is hard to understand for me.

At the heart of it, it's about the way relationship is at the very heart of God. The one who calls himself "I am who I am" exists as three persons in perfect relationship. And creates a creation to exist in relationship. It recognises that relationships is the most important thing there is.

And remember that the bible never talks in terms of Trinity. That's an abstraction deduced from the bible. Rather than worrying about that abstraction, get to grips with texts like John's gospel and Paul's letters to Philippi and Collosae. Let those, and the relationships they describe in narrative and poetry seep in.

JacksLadder · Mar 18, 2009

divided sky said:
It doesn't matter what my profile says. The most important question is will you make a decision for Jesus Christ right now? That's all that matters. All this questioning and wishy-washiness is wasting time. The Lord is coming back soon. The world is about to collapse. What's your decision?

Not sure yet hence the questions on the forum. As far as Jesus I want to follow him but I also want to make sure I am doing it for the right reasons.

JacksLadder · Mar 18, 2009

ebia said:
At the heart of it, it's about the way relationship is at the very heart of God. The one who calls himself "I am who I am" exists as three persons in perfect relationship. And creates a creation to exist in relationship. It recognises that relationships is the most important thing there is.

And remember that the bible never talks in terms of Trinity. That's an abstraction deduced from the bible. Rather than worrying about that abstraction, get to grips with texts like John's gospel and Paul's letters to Philippi and Collosae. Let those, and the relationships they describe in narrative and poetry seep in.

I recognized that relationships are very very improtant and it is partly that reaosn that I have started looking back into Christianity.

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