Creating and ideal world - crime and punishment

[Norm d'Plume]

Hi. This is one in a group of questions I have related to a sci-fi book I'm writing that includes an ideal conservative Christian world called New Bethlehem. For more information about the book, please see my original thread here:http://www.christianforums.com/threads/creating-an-ideal-world-for-conservative-christians.7890296/

Questions:

What societal punishments should there be for violating the various Ten Commandments? For at least half of them, the Bible says that the sinner be put to death, including for taking the Lord's name in vain and working on the Sabbath.

Under what other circumstances should someone be put to death? Treason? Child molestation?

How should the condemned die? The Bible recommends stoning to death for a number of offenses, but society has evolved from stoning to hanging to electrocution to the gas chamber to lethal injection. During all that time, the Bible hasn't changed.

In my current draft of the book, I use public hangings. I figured if the society is going to kill people, it would be very public, so everyone once again learns the lesson it's supposed to teach. I extended that logic to broadcast hangings live across the planet.

Finally, what should be the minimum age for capital punishment? I'm unaware of any age limits for capital crimes in the Bible. In fact, not honoring your father and mother is a capital offense. At what age are you answerable for that offense?

The youngest person ever sentenced to death in the U.S. was 10 when sentenced (killed at 19). The youngest person actually executed was 14, by electrocution. In the current draft of my book, I went with 14, for a scene with a teenage boy for his role in treason that could have caused the overthrow of New Bethlehem by its enemies.

Thanks for your help.
Norm

 

[leematthew1234]

First, Jesus actively condemns the practice of capital punishment in John 8 so in an ideal world there would be no capital punishment. Unless, of course, this fictional society is supposed to be a sort of dystopia which while claiming to have a heaven on earth actually has a society that God would largely approve of. Secondly, I'm not going to answer your question because I think the premise of your questions is pretty screwed up to be honest. I understand that you are a writer looking for feedback, however this probably isn't the best place to seek that feedback.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Matthew 5:17-18: - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

There's a verse for pretty much any point of view. Fulfilling the law is a common idiom among Jews, both then and now, that means "teaching the law" so that people can live as God intended. Some interpret the above verses as Jesus saying he will sacrifice himself as a way to render the harsh ways of the Old Testament unnecessary.

The interpretation makes a big difference. Some of the Fundamentalists I've interacted with are very strong on law and order, and believe state-sanctioned capital punishment is part of God's plan. I respect their opinions as much as I do yours.

I'm merely seeking to define a world where conservative Christians might want to live, and that requires some fundamental laws. The Bible lists the Ten Commandments as being among the most important.

As I mentioned in the main post to these threads, it's not going to be a perfect world, because humans are not perfect and because outside forces influence the society. One of the other members steered me to the history of the Puritans, who came to America to create an ideal society for themselves. They weren't expecting to find Heaven, and they still needed laws.

It's unfortunate that you don't want to answer the questions from your own perspective. I'd welcome it.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Norm

 

[leematthew1234]

From a writer's perspective, an interesting book you may want to read or at least read a summary of (and watch the move by the way) is Lois Lowery's The Giver, it has a somewhat similar premise and they do use capital punishment in a sense and the method used is lethal injection. However, the members of the society really do not know what is occurring. I have dabbled in writing myself (non-fiction) and I have a friend who is a novelist. I would probably enjoy reading a draft of your book and I could provide better feedback that way. I would love to help you figure out what kind of novel you want to write. I overreacted to the questions above as I am strongly opposed to the practice of capital punishment. If you would like my help, just let me know.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Thank you for the offer to help. I'm still finishing the second draft (at a snail's pace) and it's in very poor shape. Early chapters were written two years ago. Neveretheless, it's available to read at TheNextBigWriter.com. Signing up is free, I believe. I have two books there, Into the Mind of God v2 and Into the Mind of God v3. v2 is the current draft that I'm working to complete. v3 is my start at the next version. It only contains one chapter so far.

Some warnings about the book. Please do not read it if you are under 18. It contains quite a bit of violence and cursing, and Joseph, the main religious character, takes the Lord's name in vain a few times at moments of extreme stress. I hope to eliminate much of the cursing in v3. There is also a hanging scene which I have to retain for story purposes. Overall, the violence is a reflection of how desperate the galaxy has become and the need for some kind of savior. Joseph believes that it's him. There are also a few homosexual kissing scenes as Joseph tries to reign in his demons. He's straight in the current draft but will be a deeply closeted homosexual in the 3rd draft.

I have several Christian readers helping me shape the story, but I doubt it will ever be considered Christian literature because of the violence mentioned above. Although I can't give away the ending (book three), I do tell people who might be hesitant about the story that it ultimately reaffirms faith. For health reasons it will take me many years to complete the trilogy and tell readers what's really going on with those voices.

With that as a preamble, I would gladly welcome your input.

Norm

 

[Norm d'Plume]

From a writer's perspective, an interesting book you may want to read or at least read a summary of (and watch the move by the way) is Lois Lowery's The Giver, it has a somewhat similar premise and they do use capital punishment in a sense and the method used is lethal injection. However, the members of the society really do not know what is occurring. I have dabbled in writing myself (non-fiction) and I have a friend who is a novelist. I would probably enjoy reading a draft of your book and I could provide better feedback that way. I would love to help you figure out what kind of novel you want to write. I overreacted to the questions above as I am strongly opposed to the practice of capital punishment. If you would like my help, just let me know.

Thank you for the tip about the Giver. I look forward to reading it. I can always use examples of how to write good books, and hers sounds like it would give some good insights. Aside from New Bethlehem, I also have other planets, including one that was settled by the Mayans as they struggled to regain their heritage. All seems well on their world until you look under the covers.

Thanks again.
Norm

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Following is the premise for the story:

Into the Mind of God is the story of Joseph and Apollo, teenagers who live worlds apart but share a common bond — both are visited by a being who calls himself God. God takes each of them on an incredible journey to fulfill their destinies. With God’s help, one leads a holy crusade to conquer a perilously divided galaxy, while the other founds a radical new religion to steer mankind away from the Apocalypse. Ultimately, their destinies will collide, something neither may survive. But is God a real deity, or the imagination of two mentally ill boys?

Norm

 

[leematthew1234]

It is a very interesting premise and I look forward to reading it. And not to worry I'm 26.

 

[leematthew1234]

You are unlikely to have any Christian publishers bite on it. I am copying v. 2 off of the website and into a word document so that I can spend more time than the 7-day free trial looking at it and giving you some useful feedback. When I said that I have dabbled in writing non-fiction, I was referring to my PhD dissertation that I edited into more of a book format. I have a PhD in Meteorology and I am beginning the process of working on my second PhD in Applied Math. So if I am slow with feedback it is likely that I am working on grad school work.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Oh, dear. Unsupervised reading of v2. That makes me nervous.

I checked with our site admin. He said after the one week trial period, users revert to basic users. They can leave reviews and interact with others (e.g., me) on the site. There are two types of reviews. The inline review is phenominal. It allows you to highlight any text (words, phrases, even paragraphs) and comment or ask questions. It also includes a place for closing comments, usually used for overall impressions or major problems/questions.

If you wouldn't mind, it would help me greatly to have inline reviews. I can keep them together with all other reviews for the chapter (helps with future rewrites), and I can also address any concerns you might have as you move from chapter to chapter. I also use the feedback to incorporate new ideas into later chapters that I'm still writing.

I'm looking forward to your suggestions.

Thanks.
Norm

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Two PhD's? Wow! Don't stop. I did a Master's in Computer Science a long time ago. It made me so much more prepared for my career than just my Bachelor's.

 

[Paul Takakjain]

only god has the right to someones life.We are not god who could decide for the crimes and sins of a human he should be punished or not with death.The book you are writing has a noble title and cause, i hope you will get your answers here.Being a criminal defense lawyer i dont think even i have the right to punish somebody but sinned must be punished.

 

[Norm d'Plume]

Hi, Paul. Thank you for responding.

I'm a little unclear about your answer. You say the sinned must be punished, but only God has the right to someone's life. Hasn't God made clear that in the case of half the Ten Commandments, the punsishment should be death? As a society, many of us regularly violate the commandments against blasphemy and working on the Sabbath. There are other sins in the Bible punishable by death, many by stoning, a practice Western society has long since abandoned.

I'm not advocating for the death penalty. Far from it. I'm constantly seeing people freed after decades on death row thanks to DNA evidence. I'm just trying to understand how conservative Christians reconcile the death penalty as we implement it, compared with what the Bible instructs. How would an ideal conservative society deal with that issue? Would they simply ignore those parts of the Bible?

The Old Testament is clear on this subject, and the New Testament has a number of verses that could lead one to conclude either way as to whether the old laws should govern in this regard.

Thanks again.
Norm