Creating a New Nation! The New C.S.A. (2)

I'm starting to think all the vices I wallow in(and oh so much fun it is, truly), are hundreds of times better than the virtues SoF has construed for himself..

Ahh! How could I forget the famous SOF laws! Those things were great!
tulc(still, those will never match Poe's Law for depth)

Hey Shield, you forgot (Or refused) to answer my question from the previous thread:

Seriously, without using the Bible, please state how hanging Homosexuals can possibly be justified? What harm can two men or women loving each other possibly do to a society? Even if it does bring some harm, it can't be as bad as murder (State sanctioned or not) or rape.

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I may not be an American or a Christian, but at least acknowlege my existence and give me some answer.

ShieldOFaith said:

Evil? Do you know what the word means?

Evil? For wanting a strong criminal justice system?

Are you for real? Or are you just starving for attention?

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The problem isn't with your wanting a strong criminal justice system. The problem is with your definition of "criminal," which basically includes anyone who doesn't think exactly as you do.

ShieldOFaith said:

Here is something you may not understand. The GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does not need anything from you. Most people have this mindset that GOD needs them. It is bad doctrine that many hold that GOD needs mans' love.

Learn this correct doctrine. GOD needs absolutely nothing. He does not need you. He does not need me. He does not need the angels. He does not need anything in this universe.
...

He needs absolutely NOTHING from you.

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He also doesn't need quislings like you telling everyone they're going to Hell. Bear that in mind.

Since He is not CODEPENDENT, He will not go crying and fretting if you march your way to hell. You are not hurting Him by getting yourself burned alive for all eternity.

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God will decide who goes to Hell. Not you. He's not codependent--remember?

Also you are not now, never were, and never will be better than GOD.

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I'm sure the poster you were referring to is fully cognizant of that fact, but for pointing it out I'll award you an M.B.O. (Master of the Bloody Obvious).

Outside the Bible there is no authority. That is what you want, right?

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No, I want you to think for once. I want you to think outside your self-imposed box. I am asking you to supply hard evidence for your assertions! Is that so hard to understand?

You will deal with the Word of God.

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Maybe if we ever debate Socialism, you'll have to deal with the word of Tito, without me giving supporting evidence. Those excuses are not very sporting. ~_^

Homosexuality is evil and it destroys. Like ALL sin; it brings death!!!

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The people I have met who were Gay weren't the fools one sees at Gay Pride Parades, they were just as much of decent people as anyone else.

I suggest you stay away from it as far as you can.

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I am not a homosexual and never will be. I merely think that there is nothing wrong with being Gay, anymore than being a different Nationality or Religion.

You want to bring the argument to a place of anarchy, thereby having no structure or authority to stand upon. No.

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So you just demolished your own argument, right there. It is like me arguing for Socialism because Tito said so, and not giving supporting evidence; that would be just as wrong. I guess I'll have to say this again:

Concession accepted, Shield.

ShieldOFaith said:

Sorry, but GOD is all about absolutes.

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Then clearly this GOD person is a Sith~!

Like He is 100% GOD; and you are 100% not. Which means you do as He says or you are in big trouble.

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Yeah, he'll barbecue me forever...along with most of the people who have ever lived. Great guy.

A Sith is a fictional character. GOD is ever too real.

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Are you calling Obi Wan Kenobi a Liar?!?!

ShieldOFaith said:

You obviously do not like the government having the power to exercise Capital Punishment. That is where you and I disagree.

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Even if we were all to agree on the validity or need for capital punishment, your implementation of it would still find opposition in the majority of right-thinking humans.

You are proposing capital punishment not for crimes but for sins. You are proposing a punishment for a sin.

Murder is depriving someone of their life. It is a crime against a person and again society. Homosexuality is not a crime, it has no victims.

That is the difference between what you are proposing and what exists today.

You are proposing exacting biblical punishment upon people under the guise of law enforcement.

ShieldOFaith said:

Outside the Bible there is no authority. That is what you want, right?

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This statement is so objectively wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Let's start with non-christian countries with legal systems:
1.China
2. India
3. Iran
need I go on? There quite plainly *is* authority outside the Bible, just not the authority YOU would feel comfortable with.

You want to bring the argument to a place of anarchy, thereby having no structure or authority to stand upon. No.

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Fallacy alert: appeal to authority. If you're not able to back up your points with actual, y'know, facts, then it doesn't seem worth listening to you. This is why religions often don't hold up very well in courts of law.

You will deal with the Word of God.

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Since there is, sadly, no objective evidence for God's existence, nor for the existence of heaven or hell, I don't think we *do* have to deal with it, not in the way you want us to.

GOD has said that homosexuality is a vile abomination unto Him!!! It doesn't matter what you think about it. It doesn't matter what I think about it. It matters what HE THINKS ABOUT IT.

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Most things are an abomination unto God. Especially things like state-initiated mass murder

HE calls it Abominable!!! So it is!

Therefore you must deal with HIS Word.

Homosexuality is evil and it destroys. Like ALL sin; it brings death!!!

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HE doesn't give any reasons at all! For all you know, it might have been slipped in by a rabbi who got molested in his youth! God lets whole other religions exist, remember. It's entirely probable that he'd let what you believe to be his word become distorted aswell. There is no objective evidence at all that homosexuality destroys anything, and I really don't think the state has any role in restricting what two consenting adults get up to in the privacy of their own homes. I'm sure you'd be annoyed if the government stopped people having heterosexual relations?

I think you may have missed this one SOF.

Care to answer?

IzzyPop said:

So the definition of murder is fairly fluid, eh, SOF? It is not murder if it is an execution because the execution is legal? But a legal abortion is murder, even though it is legal? Can you clarify that one for me?

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Shield of Faith, I noticed your admiration of Martin Luther earlier in your thread, and so would like to share a couple quotes of his on the matter of combining ecclesiatstical and State power...

"Still, it is not right, and I truly grieve, that these miserable folk should be so lamentably murdered, burned, and tormented to death. We should allow everyone to beleive as he wills. If his faith be false, he will be sufficiently punished in eternal hell-fire. Why then should we martyr these people also in this world, if their eror be in faith alone and they are not guilty or rebellion or opposition to the government? Dear God, how quickly a person can become confused and fall into the trap of the devil! By the scriptures and the word of God, we ought to guard against and withstand him. By fire we accomplish little." -Martin Luther, "Concerning Rebaptism"

"Moreover, the blind, wretched fellows fail to see how utterly hopeless and impossible a thing they are attempting. For no matter how harshly they lay down the law, or how violently they rage, they can do no
more than force an outward compliance of the mouth and the hand; the heart they cannot compel, though they work themselves to a frazzle. For the proverb is true: 'thoughts are tax free'. Why do they persist in
trying to force people to beleive from the heart when they see that it is impossible? In doing so they only compel weak consciences to lie, to disavow, and to utter what is not in their hearts."-Martin Luther, "Temporal Authority: to what extent it should be obeyed"

Your CSA does sound like something a Churchmen said though...

"Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men and I will find an excuse in them to hang him" -Cardinal Richelieu

ShieldOFaith said:

LAW 1. : EVERY time a real born again Christian speaks against any left wing policy/thought/idea they will be labeled with the word "HATE" instantly, or somewhere in the thread.

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Again, Jesus had ideas we today call left wing Shield. And again, judging by your fruit, you don't seem Christian any more than a moose looks like a tuna fish.

DrStrangelove said:

"Kill dem all!" man is asking us to "Open our minds".

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Ironic, isn't it?

DrStrangelove said:

First off, we don't want mr. Rapistmurderer to walk. We want him to be inprisoned for life, but we don't want him to walk.

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Agreed. I didn't say I wanted rapists and murderers to walk. I would like for them to be rehabilitated, and punished. Both. So that when they are let out of jail after a time - depending on their crime - they can contribute to society instead of being a burden due to institutionalization.

ShieldOFaith said:

Evil? Do you know what the word means?

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Yes. But just to make sure you do, let's take a look at our friend Webster:

evil |ˈēvəl|
adjective
profoundly immoral and malevolent : his evil deeds | no man is so evil as to be beyond redemption.
• (of a force or spirit) embodying or associated with the forces of the devil : we have been driven out of the house by this evil spirit.
• harmful or tending to harm

noun
profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity


And I agree. You are evil. Insane or not, you're certainly evil.

ShieldOFaith said:

Evil? For wanting a strong criminal justice system?

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Well... For wanting a "justice system" like you do, yes. Because there is no justice in it, just bloodlust, hate and violent vengeance.

You're evil because you promote genocide. Because you want to kill (I would say murder) those whom you oppose. You would not die for those who do wrong, like Jesus did in His merciful and loving sacrifice. And later, He asked us to love the worst among us as He loved us. You discard that, and take a completely opposite stance; You would kill people Jesus died for. You would kill, while we are supposed to love to the point of being willing to lay down our lives for them. And yes. Your stance is evil and anti-christian.

ShieldOFaith said:

Are you for real? Or are you just starving for attention?

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I wish I could believe you were just starving for attention. But I do believe you're just a very wicked man. Who may not realize whose work he is truly doing.

ShieldOFaith said:

Sorry, but GOD is all about absolutes.

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Is he? Is that why so much of creation is relative? If God is so absolute in everything He does, why do not the laws of physics seem to follow that? I mean sure. Drop a ball it falls, but if God was ALL about absolutes, then the smaller things were, that would not change, right? Yet in quantum mechanics there's no such thing as certainty. Absolutes become very shady at that level.

ShieldOFaith said:

Like He is 100% GOD; and you are 100% not. Which means you do as He says or you are in big trouble.

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Not 100% not. God created us in His image. God loves us, and has given us (as He did create us in His image) certain traits others do not have. We can create. We have creativity, a sense of beauty and reasoning skills. Those are what I would consider glimpses of God's image, as placed in us by God.

ShieldOFaith said:

Here is something you may not understand. The GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does not need anything from you. Most people have this mindset that GOD needs them. It is bad doctrine that many hold that GOD needs mans' love.

Learn this correct doctrine. GOD needs absolutely nothing. He does not need you. He does not need me. He does not need the angels. He does not need anything in this universe.

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But God wants it. God needs us in the sense that He wants us. One could say I don't NEED my wife, but I love her to bits, and thus say I need her. God loves each and every one of us a lot more than I love my wife. A lot more than I ever can love my wife. So I do think the word 'need' is still somewhat accurate. Oh He won't cease to exist if we stop worshipping Him. God is God after all. But He does need us in the same way I need my wife.

ShieldOFaith said:

HE existed before the universe was made. He existed before anything and anybody was made. HE is the constant outside of time and space. The universe is like a fishbowl in His hands. He is outside of it. He created it and sustains it. It is His toy.

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His TOY? I am but a PAWN to Him? Do you realize what you just said Shield? No-one loves a toy. Not really. He plays with it until it's broken and throws it away. Some may use a toy multiple times and even fix it. But WE ARE NOT TOYS!!!
We are the bride of Christ! The bible speaks of us as His friends. As His bride. We're not mere trifles or pawns.

ShieldOFaith said:

He does not NEED anything. If you read the book of Revelation you will understand that He created everything you see around you just for His mere pleasure. He did not need to create this universe. He was perfect before the creation, and would be perfect without us. He does not eat food. He does not get tired. He is never sick. He feels no pain. He is perfect in love. He is perfect in peace. He is perfect in joy.

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He feels no pain? Jesus was and is 100% God, and He cried in pain many times. God has been angry as you know. He has a personality and is a lot more than this automaton you describe.

ShieldOFaith said:

He needs absolutely NOTHING from you.

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Then why do you wish to kill so many in His name?

ShieldOFaith said:

Because I want you to know and remember for the rest of your life, that GOD is Not "CODEPENDENT"!!!!!!!

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Still, we are to be His bride Shield. So I'd say He does need us to some extent. Like I need my wife as I said earlier.

ShieldOFaith said:

Since He is not CODEPENDENT, He will not go crying and fretting if you march your way to hell. You are not hurting Him by getting yourself burned alive for all eternity.

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So, why toss people into hell at all if he doesn't care? You know what you're describing? A sociopath. A wicked person without emotions. Trying to identify with Him? Trying to create Him in your image Shield?

ShieldOFaith said:

Also you are not now, never were, and never will be better than GOD.

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I don't think he claimed to be.

ShieldOFaith said:

NON COMPOS MENTIS

ShieldOFaith said:

Outside the Bible there is no authority. That is what you want, right?

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ShieldOFaith said:

You want to bring the argument to a place of anarchy, thereby having no structure or authority to stand upon. No.

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John 1:1-3; Heb. 4:12-13; II Pet. 3:5; I John 1:1-3; 5:7

JESUS is the word of God.

ShieldOFaith said:

You will deal with the Word of God.

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You will, too.

ShieldOFaith said:

GOD has said that homosexuality is a vile abomination unto Him!!! It doesn't matter what you think about it. It doesn't matter what I think about it. It matters what HE THINKS ABOUT IT.

HE calls it Abominable!!! So it is!

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And therefore, for no other reason you would have them killed?
You know who else he called evil and abominable? The pharisees. You know, the people who went around calling themselves holy, and men of God and such. Like you do....

ShieldOFaith said:

Therefore you must deal with HIS Word.

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You must too. And the way you act, that won't be pleasant.

ShieldOFaith said:

Homosexuality is evil and it destroys. Like ALL sin; it brings death!!!

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I agree that it is a sin. Are you saying John was wrong when he said if you commit one sin you commit all sins? Are you saying YOU are free from sin?

All sins are abominable Shield. They are, according to the bible, equal before God. So why do you say only a select group of sins should result in killing of the sinner?

You and I are no better than homosexuals, pedophiles, murderers, whatever you choose. We're all equally worthy of the death penalty. To the exact same measure, according to God.

Why would you execute/kill/murder some people for their sins, but leave out others?

ShieldOFaith said:

SOLI DEO GLORIA.

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NON COMPOS MENTIS.

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ShieldOFaith said:

LAW 1. : EVERY time a real born again Christian speaks against any left wing policy/thought/idea they will be labeled with the word "HATE" instantly, or somewhere in the thread.

This Law will be hereby and forever known as Shield Of Faith's Law #1. Or Shields Law #1. Or SOF's Law #1.

******************

Good to know the Law is still valid.

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Your posts are hateful.

Outside the Bible there is no authority. That is what you want, right?

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Uhhhh.....yeah.

You want to bring the argument to a place of anarchy, thereby having no structure or authority to stand upon. No.

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Do you know what anarchy means, Shield?

You will deal with the Word of God.

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How do you know it's the Word of God?

GOD has said that homosexuality is a vile abomination unto Him!!! It doesn't matter what you think about it. It doesn't matter what I think about it. It matters what HE THINKS ABOUT IT.

HE calls it Abominable!!! So it is!

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The Bible also says eating shellfish is an abomination, are you going to execute people who eat shellfish?

Gremlins said:

I'm sure you'd be annoyed if the government stopped people having heterosexual relations?

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I doubt it would affect him...

ShieldOFaith said:

F.Y.I. doc. You either belong to GOD or lucifer. You are a child of GOD, or you are a child of lucifer. All who are outside of Christ are children of the devil. Read the Gospel of John and Ephesians.

So whether you publicly pledge your allegiance to satan or not; you already belong to him.

You really should think about repenting and coming to Christ. It will be eternally better for you. Spending eternity in the lake of fire will hurt and be eternally miserable.

Just saying...

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Your ideas are that of Satan - murdering people inocent of crimes undeserving of exeution IS MURDER, a DEVILISH CONCEPT.

I alreayd posted this post, but sine SoF isn't gone, I suppose I need to reitterate this information to him again. I apologize to anyone else.

RAPE- You are raping Christianity figureatively. Not the physical raping of a woman as described in the scripture above which you are USING for your own benefit, not for the benefit of everyone. Figureative rape, and physical rape, are two COMPLETELY different things. The fact that I think you're old enough to make this distinction (yet you blatantly dont) disturbs and amuses me at the same time.

Very interesting. ~writing notes on behavior complexes~

MURDER- Any man who puts to death another man with a modern hand tool- a noose for example. If fanatical vigilantes employed by your govt are doing this to people at will, this is murder.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT-lol So, every law the Govt makes is justified, and appointed by 'God'? Say, pro-choice laws? Right now, before God, you're telling me that God appointed the people in Govt right now, and doing so also appointed the laws of a woman's right to choose what she can do to her body? Are you telling me that GOD appointed the Cheif Justices to enstate that law? You must have some really twisted perceptions dude.

How old are you?

Positions of authority ARE NOT appointed by God. God has set the scene for our own free will to take place and dictate actions and responsibilities of our own. Right now you are Pro-divine right of kings. What other 'authorities' have been put in place by God? Tyrants, dictators....WE PUT THOSE PEOPLE IN POWER. Saying 'God' does it is like saying voting isn't supposed to work. We all vote, by magically, what we vote doesn't matter.

The govt's decisions ARE NOT infalliable. Many many people have been hung, shot, injected, electrocuted and any other form of capital punishment unjustly; Each year there are hundreds of turn-overs in decisions by the courts because of new accurate evidence (usually supported by forensic science, something most christians fear. lol) bringing to light the accused's INNOCENCE. Many people have been executed and then suddenly they find out that they did not ifnact commit the crime.

Did you know this? Well now you do child.

Saying that the Govt ALWAYS knows whats right is stupid, and a dangerous idea, and saying that God has appointed this govt to ALWAYS know whats right is even dumber.

SO DONT TELL PEOPLE THAT THE GOVT IS INFALLIABLE! that is a lie! STOP SPREADING LIES!

I'm not calling you a liar nor am I hating; I love you like people should love another human being. But you seriously need help. You really, really need help. If I knew any members of your family, I would alert them. And if they wouldn't listen, I'd alert doctors to have a judge sign a writ of commitment so you ould be placed under heavy observation. For your safety, AND OURS!

Quit twisting the Bible's words. You KNOW for a fact that the Bible does not actively and directly advocate killing people. You know this but you fail to exhibit this.

Get.
Help.
Please.
We.
Pray.
For.
You.

One day you'll realize your ideas are not only toxic, but harmful. But we know someday you will come back to Christ and leave the degraded life of Satan.

You're not succeeding in spreading your diseased ideas. Which is what is supposed to happen. Which is why I'm not worried. But, know that we're still supporting your option to relenquish these anti-christian ideals and come back to where you belong. Thats the only healing that needs to happen right now.

Also, I want to know what your level of education is. GED?