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Counterfeit Tongues Spirit! Do you speak in tongues? Check this out!

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Lee

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Alright. I am now question the gift of tongues. I encounter the book, Demon Possession and the Christian by C. Fred Dickason. If you guys have not read it, I advise you all to read it. There is one special part in there that Dickason believes there is no gift of tongues but it is of demon. He does present a well argument.

There were three cases out of seven cases in his book that he mention about counterfeit spirit of tongues. In all the cases, he said that the demon told him that the people who want baptism of the Holy Spirit was for a more spiritual intimacy with God. And that is when the demon enters through the laying of hands by the elders of the Charismatic church.

Here is one quote of the case of a Charismatic woman named Carla:

"In another confrontation session, I again commanded the spirit Pride to answer me and tell me why he had not left. I commanded him to tell me the ground of his staying. Her jaws tightened and the muscles tensed. As she leaned forward as if to fall from the chair, I stayed her by a gentle hand on the shoulder. There was a startling action. Her body drew back as if in pain. I remember her telling me of the laying on of hands by elders of a Charismatic Luthern church. I immediately suspected a tongues spirit was over Pride and was pressuring him to silence and not to leave. The following is a summary from a tape of the session:

'Proud spirit, Pride, is a tongues spirit over you?'

There was nod of the head.

'What shall I call him? Tongues?'

Anther nod of the head.

'What is his rank?' I asked.

'Principality,' the answer came back through Carla's lips. The demon was using her voice with an obviously different personality and attitude. She had been walking with the Lord and enjoying His fellowship. This resisting and devious spirit was not the expression of Carla's mind.

I commanded, 'Tongues spirit, look at me. Are you the leader inside? Drop the jaw, open the mouth, use the tongue, speak to me. Every knee shall bow, and every tongue....'

There was a raising of a clenched fist against me.

'No, you don't do that,' I aid. "put the hand down. Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Tongues spirit, you confess. The Scripture says, test the spirits whethere they be of God. And we know you're not of God, because you don't honor Jesus Christ, and you resist the servant of God. You have no power. Just relax her hands.'

The clenched fists relaxed. 'Put them on her lap and leave them there.'

The demon obeyed.

I continued, 'Tongues spirit, are you the one who came in at that church?'

'Yes,' came the forced, clear answer.

'How did you ever get to be such a ranking spirit? Were you a principality for God once? And then you perverted and became a principality for Satan. Am I right? Confess it loud!'

'Yes, you're right,' he conceded with obvious irratation.

'You have really failed, haven't you? Satan used his communication device to speak to a lot of angels. You use a communication device to deceive people, don't you? You came in to give Carla what she wanted, didn't you?'

'Yes,' came the weakling answer.

'What was that which she wanted back then? Tell me!'

A pause. Then the spirit stated, 'She wanted a real spiritual experience with God.'

'How did she seek it?' I asked.

Another pause. 'Through the baptism of the Holy Spirit.'

'Who laid hands on her?'

'Men of the church.'

'What did they promise her through the laying on of hands? What did they tell her she would have?'

'That she'd have fulfilled life with the Lord,' he said.

'What was to be the evidence of this?'

Came the asnwer, 'The speaking of tongues.'

'Is that when you--?'

'But they didn't tell her that,' came the interruption.

'They didn't tell her that,' I clarified. 'But you came in.'

'Yes,' he conceded.

'Why did you come in?'

'It was an opportunity for me.'

I further inquired, 'What were you going to do with her life, then?'

'Lead her to the point where she did give herself to Satan.'

'And you almost accomplished that, didn't you?' I ressponded. 'But she has renounced all that; right?'

'Yes,' came the dejected reply.

'What ground do you hold in her?'

'None.' The reply was weaker.

'Is that the truth before the true and living God?'

'Yes.'

'She has used her tongue to magnify Christ. She rejoices in the hearing of the Word, doesn't she? Whose side is she on?' I demanded. [Pause] 'Answer me, whose side is she on?'

Then came a response in a form that surprised me: 'My enemy!'

'And who is your enemy?'

'Jesus Christ!' The voice was filled with restrained contempt.

'And what is He to her?' I pursued.

With concession he confessed, 'Her Savior.'

'On that basis I command you to leave her body and take all your wicked spirits with you. But first I want you to confess that Jesus Christ is your victor. Right now!'

After a pause came the forced answer, 'Jesus Christ is my victor.'

'Carla is--' I sought to pursue the usual sequence.

The spirit broke in. 'You're my victor, and Carla is my victor.' He had heard the sequnece in the confrontation of the power Pride. He volunteered the answer that I was his victor also.

'I will leave her body,' I insisted he say.

'I will leave her body,' he conceded.

'I will go now; I am undone. I give up. Tell her that!'

'I am undone and I give up. I will leave her body now,' he repeated after me in resigned fashion. 'I will take all my wicked hosts wiht me,' he also repeated.

'Come, wicked angels; come demons; come, demons; come with me. Tell them that!'

There came a fearful sigh and then, 'Come, demons; come with me.'

'I'm leaving. Come, Pride; come all principalities and powers. Tell them all,' I urged.

'Pride and all principalities and powers, come with me. We are leaving this body now.'

'Invite the holy angels to take you away,' I commanded. And I prayed that God would send His holy angels to escort them under armed guard to the pit. (I doubt that any judge would allow the condemned crimnial to walk out freely!)

There was a whimper from the demon.

'Holy angels, come and take us away right now.'

Then I commanded, 'All right, get out in the name of the Lord Jesus. Go to where Jesus sends you. Leave her body right now. Lord Jesus, send them out,' I prayed.

It was the very next session that they all seemed to leave. For over a five year period, Carla continued to recognized and rejoice in her freedom, but more improtant in the fellowship of the Lord Jesus Christ, her Delieverer. I have not heard from her since she wrote me a glowing testimony of what Christ had done and was doing in her life. She was freely enjoying the Lord, as far as I could tell.

Here is a graphic case of athe recognition of a different spirit personality within the body of a believer, speaking, resisting, confessing crucial facts, and then leaving under duress as we applied the authority graciously granted us in the Lord Jesus. How could we not recognize the power of Christ overcoming the power of wicked spirits that were clearly manifesting themselves within a genuine believer?"

That is all for the case of Carla. Read it and tell me what you think. In a tape of conference in 1995, Dickason give a display of this tape deliverance session. I listen to it. After the deliverance session tape was over, Dickason states that the young lady lost her way with Jesus Christ. She fall from obedience and is back into her old life. So I am confuse. But the book is written in 1987.

This is one of the three cases that Dickason use for his support that the gift of tongues today are not the gift in the New Testament. He is basically making the sense that speaking in tongues is of demonic nature.
 

pmarquette

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Alright. I am now question the gift of tongues. I encounter the book, Demon Possession and the Christian by C. Fred Dickason.

for every gift , there is a counterfeit copy of darkness , which is why we are told to test the spirit : 1 John 4.1

for every manifestation , good or evil , there is fruit of the walk after the epiphany ..... is it good or evil , then you know the source of the fruit and the condition of the heart

to accept or deny what Mark 16.16-20 ; and the Episitles of Paul cite as evidence of the prescence of the Holy Spirit , as of demons ; is to do what the Pharisee's said of Jesus , and Jesus said can the kingdom of good do evil or can the kingdom of evil do good - NO , their house would be divided and could not stand ...
 
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Lee

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In another case, it is about Alice.

Here is the quote:

"Alice is a registered nurse and a Bible college gradute. She came to me complaining of harrassment of her thoughts. We found that she had a poor relationship with her parents, who maintained a critical attitude toward her. Her need for acceptance had led her at one time to a charismatic group that practiced speaking in tongues. They laid hands on her that she might receive the gift, and she had a 'tongue experience.' She had taken that as a sign of God's acceptance and practiced it sometimes in public meetings and sometimes in private, thinking it gave her meaning and relief.

She had definitely trusted Christ as her Savior and was seeking to living for Him. She had recently come to a new appreciation of what it meant to be 'in Christ' as she studied the Word of God. As we considered her background, her family, and personal experience and molestation she had been experiencing may have been demonic origin. We sought to gound her in the Word and dela with her attitudes regarding her self-worth, her position in Christ, and matters of proper interpersonal relationships, including forgiving those who had hurt her or rejected her. She confessed her sins and her wrong attitudes and rejected the tongues if they were not of God. We had previously studied the Scripture passages that treat spiritual gifts and tongues to clarify the place of tongues in the early church as evidence to the Jews that Jesus had placed Moses and that His gospel was the truth. I told her that I doubted that there were any genuine tongues from God today in the New Testament sense. So she asked God to show her the truth about her own tongues experience.

We asked God to govern the counseling situation and to show us what was really going on in her mind and life. She gave me permission to confront any wicked spirit present within her. I then commanded that if there were any tongues spirit present ahe would ocme to the fore and answer me as I claimed the authority of the crucified, risen Savior. A tongues spirit did finally manifest itself in sullen fashion. It resisted me but did confess that it did come in through the laying on of hands. It took the occassion to come in to give her what she desired and to lead her astray. After several counseling sessions, the demon confessed that she had authority in Christ to ask him to leave for the pit. God, resisted the demon by the Word and by prayer, and commanded him to leave God's temple. Alice had rejected his false acceptance and the false sign of acceptance, the tongues, and acknowledge her full acceptance by Christ apart from tongues or any works of human effort.

Alice afterward started growing markedly in her Christian life. The harassments ceased. Then some months later, other harrassments showed up."

And with the other harrassments, Dickason states that there is another different demon Alice was facing. It is not the tongues spirit, but it is the spirit of non-acceptance.
 
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Lee

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for every gift , there is a counterfeit copy of darkness , which is why we are told to test the spirit : 1 John 4.1

for every manifestation , good or evil , there is fruit of the walk after the epiphany ..... is it good or evil , then you know the source of the fruit and the condition of the heart


to accept or deny what Mark 16.16-20 ; and the Episitles of Paul cite as evidence of the prescence of the Holy Spirit , as of demons ; is to do what the Pharisee's said of Jesus , and Jesus said can the kingdom of good do evil or can the kingdom of evil do good - NO , their house would be divided and could not stand ...
Yes... I can see that we need to test the spirit. Please read the other case in which Dickason test the spirit.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Lee,

I'm not quite sure how to respond except to tell you that not everything people write is true.

You know by your own experience what happend with you. I know what has happened with me and I know that I would not be able to cast out demons by demons.

There are people who will tell you all about their negative experiences but usually, if you start asking questions, their negativity stems from them not wanting to do what the word said and then coming up with excuses as to why it was not really God at all.

Just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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Anthony

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Lee said:
In all the cases, he said that the demon told him that the people who want baptism of the Holy Spirit was for a more spiritual intimacy with God. And that is when the demon enters through the laying of hands by the elders of the Charismatic church.

.
Time out :idea:

the demon told him

Why would anybody believe what a demon told them?

:eek:
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Way to go Anthony. Since when can the words spoken by a demon be taken as truth?
pound.gif
 
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look

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Dr. C. Fred Dickason received his Th.D. from Dallas Theological Seminary.

Hmm, that explains everything. Dallas Theological Seminary has been turning out a lot of so called theologians and clerics who don't even believe that Mark 16:9-20 are in the oringinal autographs (manuscripts).

Yep, it fits perfectly, if they teach that Mark 16:9-20 were added to the Bible, then they would conveniently do away with the signs that are supposed to follow the believers, including tongues. Veerrry interesting, indeed...

BTW, don't they have an atheist who teaches at that school? I believe his field was in New Testament Greek. Now why would any CHRISTIAN study under an atheist? :scratch:
 
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Trish1947

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I think most people know exactly what they have received from the Lord. I don't think anytime in my walk with the Lord that I doubted what I had received
AFTER I had received the Holy Spirit. Its like anything else in your walk, We walk by faith. When I ask Jesus to fill me with His Holy Spirit, I really do expect Him to keep His promise to me. He said He wouldn't give me a scorpion (evil spirit) when I ask Him to baptise me, or when I ask for bread, He gives me a stone.. You have to believe he promised not to give us anything evil. Now its everyones choice to trust Him in this or not. I can just picture a person wanting a closer walk with the Lord, but instead he gives an evil spirit permission to possess you instead!! THATS NOT THE NATURE OF OUR LORD. BLESS YOU ALL.
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Why would Satan give you something that he knows is going to be used in conjuction with Christ Jesus anyway, LOL? That would definately defeat his purpose, ^_^ .

I'll never forget the day that I received my prayer language. I was singing along with the song, He Touched Me, by Elvis Presley. I suddenly felt like a warm substance being poured over my head. The next thing that I knew, I was singing it in tongues...May 25th,1977, my birthday. Isn't God great, :clap: ?.
 
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Lee

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Since when can the words spoken by a demon be taken as truth?
I know what you mean. Not all things from demons are true. But things such like the demon confessing the time and day and reason of how it enters the person, shall we take this as false too?

Interesting how Paul never spoke about 'counterfeit' tongues or a tongues 'spirit'.
And there are many demons that are not mention from the Bible. There is the demon of pride, masturbation, bulimia, caffeine, alcohol, pornography, confusion, destruction, fear, darkness, deceit, freemasonary, New Age, Mormonism, Christian Science, Palmistry, Unity, Horoscope, and other more. The bible does not straightly say out there are these demons and other more.

You know by your own experience what happend with you. I know what has happened with me and I know that I would not be able to cast out demons by demons.
I know my experience. I know that I did not have a counterfeit spirit. Because it is that the Holy Spirit in me testify of me. I believe that my experience is true to God.

My worry is just that I will face this tough question in the future because of my home church. My home church already believe that Charismatic Christians are filled with spirits of demon. I am sad that they think this way. Even the well-educated people think this way. So I believe that they may find these kind of information to justify their theology.

My problem is how do I come to refute such theology?
 
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Trish1947

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Lee said:
I know what you mean. Not all things from demons are true. But things such like the demon confessing the time and day and reason of how it enters the person, shall we take this as false too?


And there are many demons that are not mention from the Bible. There is the demon of pride, masturbation, bulimia, caffeine, alcohol, pornography, confusion, destruction, fear, darkness, deceit, freemasonary, New Age, Mormonism, Christian Science, Palmistry, Unity, Horoscope, and other more. The bible does not straightly say out there are these demons and other more.


I know my experience. I know that I did not have a counterfeit spirit. Because it is that the Holy Spirit in me testify of me. I believe that my experience is true to God.

My worry is just that I will face this tough question in the future because of my home church. My home church already believe that Charismatic Christians are filled with spirits of demon. I am sad that they think this way. Even the well-educated people think this way. So I believe that they may find these kind of information to justify their theology.

My problem is how do I come to refute such theology?
It boils down to fear of the unknown. The High Priests so called reveered Patriaches of the day made statements to Jesus like "He hath a demon". It was the fear of the unknown things that Jesus manifested, that caused them to say such things. If its something that you cannot say for a fact comes from God. Then just say that. To assume that every Charismatic that speaks in tongues has a demon is a rediculous statement, since the Bible is full of evidence that they did speak in tongues. For a church as a whole to make a judgement call like that is not scriptually sound. It's not any where in the Bible that says, beware of the tongue speakers, they have a demon. It's basicly based on fear of the unknown, or something they have not experienced in their own life that causes them to make such statements.
 
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Godisincontrol

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Trish1947 said:
I think most people know exactly what they have received from the Lord. I don't think anytime in my walk with the Lord that I doubted what I had received
AFTER I had received the Holy Spirit. Its like anything else in your walk, We walk by faith. When I ask Jesus to fill me with His Holy Spirit, I really do expect Him to keep His promise to me. He said He wouldn't give me a scorpion (evil spirit) when I ask Him to baptise me, or when I ask for bread, He gives me a stone.. You have to believe he promised not to give us anything evil. Now its everyones choice to trust Him in this or not. I can just picture a person wanting a closer walk with the Lord, but instead he gives an evil spirit permission to possess you instead!! THATS NOT THE NATURE OF OUR LORD. BLESS YOU ALL.
I thought we were filled with the Holy Spirit as soon as we believe?
 
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Big Mouth Nana

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Godisincontrol said:
I thought we were filled with the Holy Spirit as soon as we believe?
There are many workings of the Holy Spirit. He draws a person to repentance, convicts of sin, He manifests healing to your body, etc. The baptism in the Holy Spirit is totally different. You receive power when you are "filled". ACTS 19:1- 6 ~ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost SINCE YE BELIEVED? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (water).
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Notice Paul said, since you believed? They were already saved, but had not received this gift yet of the Holy Ghost.

 
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Godisincontrol

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There is nothing in Scripture that would prevent the Spirit from giving someone today the gift of healing, or miracles, or anything else. However, the early church did not have the completed Bible, as we do today. Therefore, they needed the gift of prophecy in order to know what God would have them to do. Since we have God’s complete revelation in the Bible, why do we need the gift of prophecy? In my experience with the gift of tongues in today's churches, it does not at all resemble the tongues described in the New Testament. They are not speaking in a real language, and they are definitely not doing it for the purpose of communicating with a person who only knows that foreign language (Acts 2:1-11). I have never been to a church which believes in tongues that also follows Paul’s guidelines for its use in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28, “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” Modern “tongues speaking” is not in agreement with 1 Corinthians 14:33 either: “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

So, if tongues today does not match the Biblical example of tongues, is not used for the same purpose as Biblical tongues, and doesn’t follow God’s instructions for the use of tongues – then no, I do not believe that tongues is for today either. The Bible also says that the gifts of miracles and healing were primarily designed to prove that the Apostles were speaking God’s message (Acts 6:8; 14:3; Heb 2:4). The Apostles are no longer around today, and their message is recorded in the Bible – why do we need miracles to validate their message anymore? I am by no means saying that God no longer performs miracles. God miraculously heals people every day. But that is not the same thing as the gift of healing. The primary purpose of the miraculous gifts was to prove that the Gospel was true and that the apostles were truly God’s messengers. Those two purposes are not as necessary today. The Bible does not say that the miraculous gifts have ceased, but it does lay the foundation for why they might no longer be necessary.
 
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Trish1947

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Godisincontrol said:
I thought we were filled with the Holy Spirit as soon as we believe?
This is where the confusion starts. You are convicted by the Holy Spirit unto repentance to salvation. This is not the Baptism of the Holy Ghost. Repent and be baptised.(water) And I will give you the gift of the Holy Spirit. Your saved because of your repentance and conviction of the Holy Spirit to believe in Jesus, who saved you. Now you need power in your life (or tools) to do the same things that Jesus did for a witness. Healings, bringing down spiritual wickedness in high places, casting out demons, even raising the dead, which is now starting to happen in other countries. overcoming sin, he becomes your teacher so your not deceived, fellowship with the Lord, guidance, revelation knowledge, miracles, experiencing the love of God in your life through the Spirit.
Paul said to the men that believed in Jesus but yet had not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, "I'll show you a more excellent way" and laid hands on them to receive the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Trish1947

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Godisincontrol said:
There is nothing in Scripture that would prevent the Spirit from giving someone today the gift of healing, or miracles, or anything else. However, the early church did not have the completed Bible, as we do today. Therefore, they needed the gift of prophecy in order to know what God would have them to do. Since we have God’s complete revelation in the Bible, why do we need the gift of prophecy? In my experience with the gift of tongues in today's churches, it does not at all resemble the tongues described in the New Testament. They are not speaking in a real language, and they are definitely not doing it for the purpose of communicating with a person who only knows that foreign language (Acts 2:1-11). I have never been to a church which believes in tongues that also follows Paul’s guidelines for its use in 1 Corinthians 14:27-28, “If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.” Modern “tongues speaking” is not in agreement with 1 Corinthians 14:33 either: “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.”

So, if tongues today does not match the Biblical example of tongues, is not used for the same purpose as Biblical tongues, and doesn’t follow God’s instructions for the use of tongues – then no, I do not believe that tongues is for today either. The Bible also says that the gifts of miracles and healing were primarily designed to prove that the Apostles were speaking God’s message (Acts 6:8; 14:3; Heb 2:4). The Apostles are no longer around today, and their message is recorded in the Bible – why do we need miracles to validate their message anymore? I am by no means saying that God no longer performs miracles. God miraculously heals people every day. But that is not the same thing as the gift of healing. The primary purpose of the miraculous gifts was to prove that the Gospel was true and that the apostles were truly God’s messengers. Those two purposes are not as necessary today. The Bible does not say that the miraculous gifts have ceased, but it does lay the foundation for why they might no longer be necessary.
Oh, so your saying that they we're more Godless in Jesus day so they needed proof of Gods power? Take a look around you. I just cant accept that at all.


JESUS, THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND TOMORROW!!
 
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Lee

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It boils down to fear of the unknown. The High Priests so called reveered Patriaches of the day made statements to Jesus like "He hath a demon". It was the fear of the unknown things that Jesus manifested, that caused them to say such things. If its something that you cannot say for a fact comes from God. Then just say that. To assume that every Charismatic that speaks in tongues has a demon is a rediculous statement, since the Bible is full of evidence that they did speak in tongues. For a church as a whole to make a judgement call like that is not scriptually sound. It's not any where in the Bible that says, beware of the tongue speakers, they have a demon. It's basicly based on fear of the unknown, or something they have not experienced in their own life that causes them to make such statements.
It is somewhat true to what you say, but your argument does not stand. Some people are turn off by speaking in tongues because of fear. But still I still see that we can not based on that fact that the Bible does not say it so it is not there. There are still things in the Bible that does not tell us specifically about demons. Such like there are no mention of demons of fear, alcohol, darkness, adultery, rape, pride, perfection, control, pornography, nicotine, and etc. in the Bible. These are the types of demons that today well-known Christian ministers (such as C. Peter Wager, Derek Prince, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Hagin, Charles Kraft, Mark Bubeck, C. Fred Dickason, Win Woley, Frank Hammond, and others) claimed to say that they face in deliverance ministry.
 
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