Could You Have Become a Christian Without Human Influence?

[placebo]

Could you have become a Christian without human influence?

Imagine that you were born in the future on a space station. The space station is self sustaining and can exist indefinitely. The space station computers have a library of every writing in history, and they are not ranked in any way. Hours after your birth a virus strikes the station. Being in the incumbation room has saved your life, but everyone else dies. You are raised by androids that have been programmed to nurture you physically and to teach you basic language skills, how to access the computer library, and so on, but not a value system. That task was to have been performed by your parents and space station community.

You are now an adult.

Would you believe in God/Christ?
Would you believe that the Bible is the word of God?
Please explain your answers.

 

[oneiric]

Could you have become a Christian without human influence?

Imagine that you were born in the future on a space station. The space station is self sustaining and can exist indefinitely. The space station computers have a library of every writing in history, and they are not ranked in any way. Hours after your birth a virus strikes the station. Being in the incumbation room has saved your life, but everyone else dies. You are raised by androids that have been programmed to nurture you physically and to teach you basic language skills, how to access the computer library, and so on, but not a value system. That task was to have been performed by your parents and space station community.

You are now an adult.

Would you believe in God/Christ?
Would you believe that the Bible is the word of God?
Please explain your answers.

I believe morals are innate within us and we have a sense of right and wrong at birth...but these could be tampered with through conditioning etc. So, if the baby was conditioned, who knows. But, if the person grows up without any knowlege of the Bible and all that, then it is not anyone's place to judge whether that person will see God but God.

 

[pamanfu]

I believe that God gives each one of us an internal barometer. Our conscience. I believe that if it is Gods will, and you are filled with the holy spirit (this is given by God, apart from man) you will recognize his word as truth.

Man can lead others to God, But it is by Gods will alone that we are saved.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

The best I can answer the questions is by saying that I believe in natural revelation. Having never been in such a position, I think it's presumptuous to assume one thing or another. You have to be careful with hypothetical situations.

 

[placebo]

To: oneiric; pamanfu

You are either being evasive or you misunderstood the questions. Perhaps this will help. I'm assuming that the Bible is a vital part of Christianity. From my experience of reading and hearing the testimonies of Christians it is not much of an exageration to say that the Word of God jumps off the Bible's pages and into their hearts. I want to know if this would happen without any human interference. Can the Word of God stand alone if read without any preconceptions? And, without any preconceptions, how do you distinguish the Bible as the Truth from any other works?

 

[pamanfu]

To: oneiric; pamanfu

You are either being evasive or you misunderstood the questions. Perhaps this will help. I'm assuming that the Bible is a vital part of Christianity. From my experience of reading and hearing the testimonies of Christians it is not much of an exageration to say that the Word of God jumps off the Bible's pages and into their hearts. I want to know if this would happen without any human interference. Can the Word of God stand alone if read without any preconceptions? And, without any preconceptions, how do you distinguish the Bible as the Truth from any other works?

I think that if it is Gods will that you are saved, then his word would ring true, with or without human intervention. Very good question though. Guess I would have to think about it.

 

[oneiric]

There are some people who have not heard of God's word inside the Bible...and like I said, God will decide.

 

[Rafael]

Ofcourse all this is supposed to happen without God knowing?? Would it be too hard to imagine that God would be able to communicate with His own and be quite able to deal with any circumstance?
The world we live in, now, has everything that it needs from God to overcome death and sin. It just has to do it.

 

[placebo]

It sure is difficult to get a straight answer around here!

 

[water_ripple]

Could you have become a Christian without human influence?

Imagine that you were born in the future on a space station. The space station is self sustaining and can exist indefinitely. The space station computers have a library of every writing in history, and they are not ranked in any way. Hours after your birth a virus strikes the station. Being in the incumbation room has saved your life, but everyone else dies. You are raised by androids that have been programmed to nurture you physically and to teach you basic language skills, how to access the computer library, and so on, but not a value system. That task was to have been performed by your parents and space station community.

You are now an adult.

Would you believe in God/Christ?
Would you believe that the Bible is the word of God?
Please explain your answers.

Yes I would. Despite the suffering in the parables, despite the wrath of God I would believe. Jesus was sacraficed to cleanse all sinners who have only but to ask, and turn away from sin. This is how much God loved the children of the earth. His only Son was a sacrafice so that all might be saved from death. Certianly normal humans would not sacrafice their own children in an effort to save those that even hate them. For me, this would be a plan above my emotional perceptions. If I was the only human left I don't think I would be capable to sacrafice my only child in an effort to save person in a hope that they would seek me. But, this is the difference between God and myself. I am selfish and He is not.

 

[placebo]

To: water_ripple

There are thousands of written works in the space station computers. Without any human guidance how would you know to even read the Bible? And, assuming you stumbled upon it, how would the words of the Bible be any more convincing than any other documents you read?

 

[water_ripple]

You are raised by androids that have been programmed to nurture you physically and to teach you basic language skills, how to access the computer library, and so on, but not a value system. That task was to have been performed by your parents and space station community.

Computers run by the numbers, literaly. They focus on number relations. Being that an android is a computer, isn't it funny that these machines are filled with numbers? Isn't this ironic that the bible is more widely read than any other book. Do you not agree that this machine would relay the statistics of this matter? This is a hypothetical situation of course. Machines could not compute the needs of a human. A machine could not compute the actions of emotions. Numbers and emotions do not add up.

To: water_ripple

There are thousands of written works in the space station computers. Without any human guidance how would you know to even read the Bible? And, assuming you stumbled upon it, how would the words of the Bible be any more convincing than any other documents you read?

I have already stated why the Bible would be more convincing than any other documents I read(refer to previous post). Computers are computers and statistics are statistics(refer to previous thought). Besides when a person is faced with a huge selection of books(unless they know what they are looking for) wouldn't a prudent question be, "What was the book most known or read to my species?" God works in mysterious ways... =) Human curiosity is probably our only trait that never fails.

 

[Rafael]

To: water_ripple

There are thousands of written works in the space station computers. Without any human guidance how would you know to even read the Bible? And, assuming you stumbled upon it, how would the words of the Bible be any more convincing than any other documents you read?

Ink and paper are dead. It is God's Spirit that makes alive. It doesn't matter where you go, He is there.
If you stumble across anything, He is aware of it as you live, breathe and have your being inside Him.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
2Co 3:6 ¶ who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

 

[placebo]

... Isn't this ironic that the bible is more widely read than any other book. Do you not agree that this machine would relay the statistics of this matter? ...

You have picked a clever way to distinguish the Bible from all other books in our hypothetical story. However, your selection was influenced by humans (i.e. the most widely read book by humans). And, in the future with the growth of Islam and other unforseen events it is quite likely that the Bible will not be the most widely read book.

Even so, I still don't understand how you would conclude that the Bible is the word of God just by reading it. Remember, in our story you are without any preconceptions, and without any one else to give you direction.

 

[placebo]

Ink and paper are dead. It is God's Spirit that makes alive. It doesn't matter where you go, He is there.

If your statement is true why is there such an imbalance of Christians in the Western World?

REQUEST: I don't see very well and I had trouble reading your last post in the tiny font. Could you use a more readable size in the future? Thanks.

 

[Peter]

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father, but through me."

Jesus was 100% man. You can't get to God except through Jesus. You cannot get to God outside of Human influence.

Is that straight enough for you?

Your argument, however, is flawed from the beginning. Who designed the space station? Who designed the robots? What's in your library and who put it there? NO human influence?

Can a person come to know God outside of the Bible? Sure. The Bible itself proves it. Paul wasn't rading any book when he saw the resurrected Christ. However, can the scriptures make one wise unto salvation? Yes again. Pauls's letter to Timothy.

Lastly, while the Bible is the most important Tradition the church has, it's greatest witness lies in the truth of changed lives of those in Christ.
(Can I get a witness?) {If you want proof texts, I can provide them, but I'm tired.}

Peace.

Peter

 

[Spicy McHaggis]

If you had the Bible, read it and understood it, you would know that you have the right to ask God to show you the truth, and He would do it in a way that you believe. Most Christians would agree that God talks to them in a way they understand, even if they cannot explain it.

If you're unable to comprehend the Bible, God won't judge you unjustly. Babies don't go to Hell, they haven't had a chance to chose right from wrong. On the same note, if you were 40 years old and retarded, God won't hold you to a standard you cannot atain.

And you cannot do away with Human influence. If this space station had every piece of text, there would also be books written by other humans describing this.

My post saying that you can ask God to validate the Bible would be in the Dbase, and you'd be able to read it, and chose to test it or not.

If you ignore all of it, that was a choice.

 

[water_ripple]

You have picked a clever way to distinguish the Bible from all other books in our hypothetical story. However, your selection was influenced by humans (i.e. the most widely read book by humans). And, in the future with the growth of Islam and other unforseen events it is quite likely that the Bible will not be the most widely read book.

The facts relevant: the bible is and has been throughout history the most widely and known book period.

There is simply no disproving this. It has been through generation after generation and withstood the test of time. We can never know how far off the future is. This is up to God. It is His decision in His time. This is a hypothesis, ergo to fullfill this hypothesis to the status of a theory one must consider the compiled data. This is exactly what a machine would do. Numbers to this statistic would force the machine to recognize the bible. I wouldn't matter if one had no belief or knowledge of God in this situation. The relative numbers would send off alarms and messages inside the databank of a computer. Ironic that even unthinking, unfeeling machines (in this hypothesis) are unknowingly perfoming the will of God. It is His will that not all shall perish but instead they live forever. He is infinite in His wisdom. Numbers are numbers, but it is the will of God that makes the difference.

Even so, I still don't understand how you would conclude that the Bible is the word of God just by reading it. Remember, in our story you are without any preconceptions, and without any one else to give you direction.

As I've already answered this question refer to #10 post. =)

 

[water_ripple]

Ink and paper are dead. It is God's Spirit that makes alive. It doesn't matter where you go, He is there.
If you stumble across anything, He is aware of it as you live, breathe and have your being inside Him.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.
2Co 3:6 ¶ who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Acts 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.(raphe)

If your statement is true why is there such an imbalance of Christians in the Western World?

Humans, by nature are rational and philosophical creatures. Humans cannot tell what is in the hearts of other people. We are not gifted with the gift of mind reading either. People who say they can are mislead. The bible clearly states that only God knows the real motives of human beings. He sees across the ages because He is forever. His plan for the world is currently in full force, but some choose to ignore the obvious reality of truth. Therefore, since God can see across the ages and His plans are made obvious He is definetly living. Humbly, I say His spirit has changed my life completely. And I cower at the thought of being judged for the same things I have judged others on. I try not to do this as best I can, but the weakness of the flesh is a horrible thing. It is ONLY by His grace that I am saved.

If God were not a living God He could not be there at the end of human time to pass judgment. If God were not a living God I would not feel His presence in my life guiding my decisions. If God were not a living God I would not be moved to tears when today my pastor told me I was an answer to his prayer!

I'd fallen away from God for quite a long time. Tragedy and death surrounded the birth of my 2 children, and the loss of one. Suicide and cancer old age and aneurisms(sp?). Horribly dark. My joyous occasions were inshrouded by death. My marrige suffered under the strain, and wrath festered inside of me. Always though I felt God's finger poking me on the shoulder. I chose to ignore Him. My life plunged further into a manifestation of pain. Finally, I hit the bottom. Proud I was. Too proud in fact to heed the will of God. Until the day I decided to submit to the will of God. I became free of the heavy emotional strain, and my life improved. The emotional relationship between my husband and I has grown stroger. I have an inner peace that I've never had before.
He is teaching me to let go of my anger and accept His will. If God was dead He wouldn't fullfill me. If God was not living I would feel as empty as the days in which I practiced witchcraft and actively used the oujia.

The answer to my pastor's prayer:

I rang his doorbell to inquire about bible studies so that I may feed on the word of God. Unbenounced to me, he has been disheartend by all of the tragidies of late. Basically, everything he was dealing with was of a negative nature. He also recognizes the obvious signs of the time of the Lord approaching. He prayed for strength, he prayed for a sign of hope. And I appeared humbly to testify that I have refound my faith and plan to persue it. I plan to live my life for God and repent of my wicked ways. I have the upmost respect for this man, and in his saddend state I was shocked! It only goes to prove that all people are human and feel the pains of the world. We shed tears because God works in mysterious ways and hears the prayers of His followers. It was a truly beautiful thing to behold. It was tangible. God is not dead. He is living and still blesses His children. This was made plain to us today.

He gave me direction as to what scripture to read that would relate to my acception of Christ. He said read the 1st Gospel of John and we will talk about this next Monday. This of course moved me also:

John chapter 1 verses 3-5 "All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.
(4)In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
(5)And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehend it not."

God through Jesus is salvation. God is living. God can also live in man(Christian i.e. one who follows Christ).

Also John 1:14"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father.) full of grace and truth.

Also John 1:17 "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ"

 

[placebo]

Dear Forum

I have done a poor job of posing my question. I hope the following helps to clarify it:

Most Christians have had many people in their lives who have actively influenced their beliefs. Traditions and culture have planted the seeds of faith in many of us. Very few of us would have ever picked up a Bible if not prodded by others. And, very few of us could even interpret the Bible without the help of others. But, what if you were born in a community where there weren't others giving that initial guidance and continuing support for Christianity? Or, what if you were initially pushed toward another religion? Or, no religion at all?

There are approximately 2 billion Christians in the world today. That is one-third of the population. That leaves 4 billion people who are not Christians, or two-thirds of the earth's population. Most non-Christians live in a band stretching from North Africa through the Middle East and ending in South Asia. (I used the Encarta World Atlas and Adherents.com to find this information.)

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html


QUESTIONS:
Most of you quote verses and display your understanding of the Bible and what it means to be a Christian. I don't think it is possible for any of you to have learned all of this on your own.
Question #1: Do you think that you would have the same understanding of the Bible and faith in Christianity if you born in a non-Christian culture?

Assuming that the same standards will apply to all of us on judgement day;
Question #2: Is this fair to the billions of people who were not born in Christian cultures?

Question #3: Why do you think that there are so many non-Christians in the world?