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Could most modern translations be in error?

redleghunter

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First thank you for the direct and comprehensive response. I will take chunk by chunk given the length and also the effort you put in.

On the above I do see that the ages and ages would be arbitrary or subjective for both Life and punishment. Yet when it comes to giving Life eternal and the fact we become like Him that is Christ at the Resurrection, what is there to suggest such a Life would cease or change at some point?

Please note I am not addressing the punishment line right now but the eternal or in your view ages of ages or age during Life.
 
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ClementofA

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No it does not:

10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ.

All things does not mean all people. Ephesians 1:11-13 explains who the on earth refers to...those in Christ His elect.

There's no "all things" in the Greek. It is just "all". They are to be "in Christ" which implies their salvation:

Eph.1:10 to have an administration of the complement of the eras, to head up all in the Christ - both that in the heavens and that on the earth 11 in Him in Whom our lot was cast also, being designated beforehand according to the purpose of the One Who is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will,

Verses 11-13 place no limits on that:

11In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will, 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Those in the heavens (Eph.1:10) include spiritually wicked beings:

Eph.6:12 because we are not wrestling against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against the spiritual hosts of evil in the heavenlies.

So, they, also, will be saved "in Christ" as per Eph.1:10.
 
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redleghunter

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"We proceed to point out the sad plight into which unbounded confidence in the present translations betrays its devotees."
That’s by Bryant McGill. Don’t think he is a theologian. Is he even a Christian?
 
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ClementofA

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That’s by Bryant McGill. Don’t think he is a theologian. Is he even a Christian?

Is it? Where is your source (url, book title & page, etc) where i can see that Bryant McGill
wrote (or, perhaps, plagiarized) what i quoted?

BTW, I've never even heard of anyone named Bryant McGill.
 
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redleghunter

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Is it? Where is your source (url, book title & page, etc) where i can see that Bryant McGill
wrote (or, perhaps, plagiarized) what i quoted?

BTW, I've never even heard of anyone named Bryant McGill.
You put quotation marks on a statement. Incumbent upon you to reveal the source.
 
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ClementofA

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You put quotation marks on a statement. Incumbent upon you to reveal the source.

You claimed to name the source. I asked you to back up your claim with evidence. Where are you getting your info? If you can't do that, then i'd suggest that you retract your claim.
 
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redleghunter

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You claimed to name the source. I asked you to back up your claim with evidence. Where are you getting your info? If you can't do that, then i'd suggest that you retract your claim.
You put up quotation marks without naming the source. It is incumbent upon you to reveal your source.
 
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Oldmantook

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Believing (Jn 3:16) and obeying (Heb 5:9) in the Greek are rendered in the present tense. Thus these requirements for eternal life in these two verses mandate that a believer must continue "believing" and "obeying." Failure to do so results in no longer having eternal life.
By "perfect" do you mean that believers cannot/do not sin? 1 John 1:8-10 states that we all sin. Though we all sin, there is a marked difference between occasional sin and the practice of sin.
 
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Oldmantook

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Does not help out your cause.




Again not helping out your cause.

In Matthew 25 and Revelation 20 we have a final Judgment. There is no indication of a later parole. Yes God is Love but He is also Holy and will Judge.
Replying "does not help your cause" certainly does not help your cause.
 
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Oldmantook

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Since God is indeed love, he certainly does not love those whom he punishes forever in the LOF does he? Your belief manifests quite a contradiction in terms.
 
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redleghunter

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Since God is indeed love, he certainly does not love those whom he punishes forever in the LOF does he? Your belief manifests quite a contradiction in terms.
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)
 
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Oldmantook

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Col 1:20 plainly states "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood,shed on the cross." There are no caveats in this verse. All means all. In order for to you to support your view, you have to qualify "all" as "some."
When Jesus plainly stated that he will draw/drag all to himself in Jn 12:32 did he qualify his statement by only meaning some? Again you have to qualify the plain words of Jesus in order to suit your belief. 1 1 Cor 15:22 states "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive." Do all die in Adam? Yes. If you affirm the former without qualification, you are also obligated to affirm the latter without qualification. If not, Adam's transgression is greater than Christ's sacrifice which is precisely why the Good News is the good news because Christ's sacrifice like Adam's transgression which affects all of mankind - all will be made alive.
 
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Oldmantook

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Earth is creation which is temporal. The seen. Heaven is out of space and time which is eternal. The unseen.
The present earth will pass away. However the New Jerusalem will exist on the new earth - not in heaven.
 
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Oldmantook

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And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, (Hebrews 9:27)
Indeed. Those in the LOF are indeed judged. Does the verse go on to specify what happens after the judgment?? Eternal torment or will all things be reconciled to God? Your choice.
 
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Oldmantook

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So...your conclusion is?? Every knee bowing and every tongue confessing...are those not salvific terms as consistently expressed throughout the scriptures or do you have a way of explaining away those terms? When God's stated purpose is to reconcile ALL THINGS to himself, how do you suppose those in the LOF are reconciled when they supposedly spend an eternity there in punishment for their sins/unbelief? Quite a contradiction.
 
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ClementofA

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redleghunter

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Indeed. Those in the LOF are indeed judged. Does the verse go on to specify what happens after the judgment?? Eternal torment or will all things be reconciled to God? Your choice.
As a matter of fact the Scriptures do not address a second salvation in the LoF.
 
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Hillsage

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As a matter of fact the Scriptures do not address a second salvation in the LoF.
They never had their 'first chance' yet, because they were never "predestined, called, chosen, or ordained TO believe" (multiple verses) as the scriptures are so clearly pointing out for those who 'will be saved' in this age. As opposed to those who 'will be saved' "in the ages to come." (Eph 2:7) The 'process' is the same, only God's timing is the real issue.
 
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