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Yes there is:There's no "all things" in the Greek. It is just "all". They are to be "in Christ" which implies their salvation:
The tent maker commentator needs some reading comprehension classes.
Those who were washed accepted as born again regenerated believers the Gospel of Christ. They have been washed in the blood of the New Covenant. Those who reject God’s covenant in the blood of His Son in Whom He is well pleased will be judged.
Compare now 1 Corinthians 6 since you quoted from 1 Corinthians 5:
1 Corinthians 6: NASB
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.
Where does Paul ever qualify his warnings about who cannot enter the kingdom of God by saying "not until they repent & cease being unrighteous?" I can't seem to find that
qualification anywhere in Paul's writings. Do you suppose that Paul forgot to put that in and that is why unis today have to interject that into every one of Paul's warnings?
Romans 5 does not support this. That is reading into the text ignoring the entire chapter and epistle for that matter.
Jigsaw eisegesis looks good on paper but does not stand the test:
Romans 1: NASB
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19For what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.20For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen.
26For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27Likewise, the men abandoned natural relations with women and burned with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
28Furthermore, since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, He gave them up to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed, and hatred. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant, and boastful. They invent new forms of evil; they disobey their parents. 31They are senseless, faithless, heartless, merciless.
32Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things are worthy of death, they not only continue to do these things, but also approve of those who practice them.
It says they knew better but not only continue to do these things but approve of those who do.
You have a big issue with a God who metes out Righteous Justice allowing those who trample under foot the Son of God suffer for an eternity. Yet have no problem that at some point God gives sinners over to their own passions and unable to repent?
"Not that Paul’s argument there is difficult to follow. What preoccupies him is the agonizing mystery that the Messiah has come, yet so few of the house of Israel have accepted him, while so many Gentiles—outside the covenant—have. What then of God’s faithfulness to his promises? It is not an abstract question regarding who is “saved” and who “damned”: By the end of chapter 11, the former category proves to be vastly larger than that of the “elect,” or the “called,” while the latter category makes no appearance at all. It is a concrete question concerning Israel and the Church. And ultimately Paul arrives at an answer drawn, ingeniously, from the logic of election in Hebrew Scripture.
Before reaching that point, however, in a completely and explicitly conditional voice, he limns the problem in the starkest chiaroscuro. We know, he says, that divine election is God’s work alone, not earned but given; it is not by their merit that Gentile believers have been chosen. “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (9:13)—here quoting Malachi, for whomJacob is the type of Israel and Esau the type of Edom. For his own ends, God hardened Pharaoh’s heart. He has mercy on whom he will, hardens whom he will (9:15–18). If you think this unjust, who are you, O man, to reproach God who made you? May not the potter cast his clay for purposes both high and low, as he chooses (9:19–21)? And, so, what if (ei de, quod si) God should show his power by preparing vessels of wrath, solely for destruction, to provide an instructive counterpoint to the riches of the glory he lavishes on vessels prepared for mercy, whom he has called from among the Jews and the Gentiles alike (9:22–24)? Perhaps that is simply how it is: The elect alone are to be saved, and the rest left reprobate, as a display of divine might; God’s faithfulness is his own affair.
Well, so far, so Augustinian. But so also, again, purely conditional: “What if . . . ?” Rather than offering a solution to the quandary that torments him, Paul is simply restating it in its bleakest possible form, at the very brink of despair. But then, instead of stopping here, he continues to question God’s justice after all, and spends the next two chapters unambiguously rejecting this provisional answer altogether, in order to reach a completely different—and far more glorious—conclusion.
Throughout the book of Genesis, the pattern of God’s election is persistently, even perversely antinomian: Ever and again the elder to whom the birthright properly belongs is supplanted by the younger, whom God has chosen in defiance of all natural “justice.” This is practically the running motif uniting the whole text, from Cain and Abel to Manasseh and Ephraim. But—this is crucial—it is a pattern not of exclusion and inclusion, but of a delay and divagation that immensely widens the scope of election, taking in the brother “justly” left out in such a way as to redound to the good of the brother “unjustly” pretermitted. This is clearest in the stories of Jacob and of Joseph, and it is why Esau and Jacob provide so apt a typology for Paul’s argument. For Esau is not finally rejected; the brothers are reconciled, to the increase of both precisely because of their temporary estrangement. And Jacob says to Esau (not the reverse), “Seeing your face is like seeing God’s.”
And so Paul proceeds. In the case of Israel and the Church, election has become even more literally “antinomian”: Christ is the end of the law so that all may attain righteousness, leaving no difference between Jew and Gentile; thus God blesses everyone (10:11–12). As for the believing “remnant” of Israel (11:5), they are elected not as the number of the “saved,” but as the earnest through which all of Israel will be saved (11:26), the part that makes the totality holy (11:16). And, again, the providential ellipticality of election’s course vastly widens its embrace: For now, part of Israel is hardened, but only until the “full entirety” (pleroma) of the Gentiles enter in; they have not been allowed to stumble only to fall, however, and if their failure now enriches the world, how much more so will their own “full entirety” (pleroma); temporarily rejected for “the world’s reconciliation,” they will undergo a restoration that will be a “resurrection from the dead” (11:11–12, 15).
This, then, is the radiant answer dispelling the shadows of Paul’s grim “what if,” the clarion negative: There is no final “illustrative” division between vessels of wrath and of mercy; God has bound everyone in disobedience so as to show mercy to everyone (11:32); all are vessels of wrath so that all may be made vessels of mercy.
Not that one can ever, apparently, be explicit enough. One classic Augustinian construal of Romans 11, particularly in the Reformed tradition, is to claim that Paul’s seemingly extravagant language—“all,” “full entirety,” “the world,” and so on—really still means just that all peoples are saved only in the “exemplary” or “representative” form of the elect. This is, of course, absurd. Paul is clear that it is those not called forth, those allowed to stumble, who will still never be allowed to fall. Such a reading would simply leave Paul in the darkness where he began, reduce his glorious discovery to a dreary tautology, convert his magnificent vision of the vast reach of divine love into a ludicrous cartoon of its squalid narrowness. Yet, on the whole, the Augustinian tradition on these texts has been so broad and mighty that it has, for millions of Christians, effectively evacuated Paul’s argument of all its real content. It ultimately made possible those spasms of theological and moral nihilism that prompted John Calvin to claim (in book 3 of The Institutes) that God predestined even the Fall, and (in his commentary on 1 John) that love belongs not to God’s essence, but only to how the elect experience him. Sic transit gloria Evangelii.
Romans 5: NASB
18Therefore, just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. 19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
20The Law was given so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness, to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The curse to all. The justification offered to all. However not all will be made righteous. But many.
The Justification is in the Righteous of Jesus Christ. Those condemned to the Lake of Fire have rejected Christ.There no mention of an "offer" of justification in v.18 there.
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Paul makes a parallel between "the many" who were condemned & sinners and those who will be justified & constituted just.
“In Romans 5, the justification is co-extensive with the condemnation. Since all share in one, all share in the other. If only a certain portion of the human race had partaken of the sin of Adam, only a certain portion would partake of the justification of Christ. But St. Paul affirms all to have been involved in one, and all to be included in the other.”
Therefore there is salvation after death. And corrective punishment.
Jesus shall see of the travail of His soul & be satisfied. Not satisfied a little bit, but the vast majority fried alive forever.
"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).
For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"? All.
"Paul declares, however, that the effects of Christ's obedience are far greater for mankind than the effect of Adam's fall. For the third (5:15) and fourth (5:17) times in this chapter he makes explicit use of the 'qal wahomer' ("from minor to major") form of argument that is commonly used in rabbinic literature, expressed by "much more"...cf. earlier use at 5:9,10...And as in the case of the typology previously used (5:14), here, too, the form of the argument is antithetical. The grace of God extended to humanity in the event of Christ's death has abounded "for the many" (5:15b), which corresponds to the "all" of 5:12,18. The free gift given by God in Christ more than matches the sin of Adam and its effects; it exceeds it..."
"Contrasts are also seen in the results of the work of each. Adam's trespass or disobedience has brought condemnation (κατάκριμα, 5:18); through his act many were made sinners (5:19). Christ's "act of righteousness" results in "justification of life" (δικαίωσιν ζωῆς) for all (5:18). The term δικαίωσιν can be translated as "justification" (NIV, NRSV; but RSV has "acquittal") - the opposite of "condemnation". The word ζωῆς ("of life") is a genitive of result, providing the outcome of justification, so that the phrase may be rendered "justification resulting in life". 108
108. BDAG 250 (δικαίωσιν): "acquittal that brings life". The construction is variously called a "genitive of apposition", an "epexegetical genitive" or "genitive of purpose". Cf. BDF 92 (S166). The meaning is the same in each case: justification which brings life."
"The universality of grace in Christ is shown to surpass the universality of sin. Christ's "act of righteousness" is the opposite of Adam's "tresspass" and equivalent to Christ's
"obedience", which was fulfilled in his being obedient unto death (Phil 2:8). The results of Christ's righteous action and obedience are "justification resulting in life for all persons"...5:18...and "righteousness" for "many" (5:19). The term "many" in 5:19 is equivalent to "all persons", and that is so for four reasons: (1) the parallel in 5:18 speaks in its favor; (2) even as within 5:19 itself, "many were made sinners" applies to all mankind, so "many will be made righteous" applies to all; (3) the same parallelism appears in 5:15, at which "many" refers to "all"; and (4) the phrase "for many" is a Semitism which means "all", as in Deutero-Isaiah 52:14; 53:11-12; Mark...10:45; 14:24; Heb.12:15. The background for Paul's expression is set forth in Deutero-Isaiah, where it is said that "the righteous one"...the Lord's servant, shall make "many" to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their sins ...Isa.53:11..."
"It is significant, and even astounding, that justification is here said to be world-embracing. Nothing is said about faith as a prerequisite for justification to be effective, nor about faith's accepting it."
(Paul's Letter To The Romans: A Commentary, Arland J. Hultgren, Eerdmans, 2011, 804 pg, p.227, 229)
----------------
18 So, then, just as by one transgression unto condemnation for all human beings, so also by one act of righteousness unto rectification of life for all human beings;
19 For, just as by the heedlessness of the one man many were rendered sinners, so also by the obedience of the one the many will be rendered righteous.s
"s. The use of the definite article here and elsewhere must be scrupulously observed, in keeping with the traditional way of formulating the distinction between the
unique singular and the comprehensive plural in Greek (which a language without articles, like Latin, cannot reflect): not, that is, "one" (in the sense of "someone"),
but "the one" (in the sense of the unique and irreplaceable, an irreducible singular) and "the many" (in the sense of all and everyone, the indivisible totality of
all particulars). As in the prior verse, the proportion uniting both halves of the formulation is that of a particular and the universal, both in sin and in salvation."
(The New Testament: A Translation, David Bentley Hart, 2017, p.297-298)
The Justification is in the Righteous of Jesus Christ. Those condemned to the Lake of Fire have rejected Christ.
For your theology to work those in the Lake of Fire would need to rely on their suffering as cleansing them of unrighteousness when the only way is through Christ.
That is what you and your references leave out each time.
Every one of those references omits the atonement.
You have to prove there is another way for people who have rejected Christ and His righteousness to atone for their sins.
As it stands your assertion is a Big Love hand wave after some form of purgatory.
Yes while still alive here on earth. You do acknowledge a Judgement Day?Many still alive, whom God is willing to save, have rejected Christ. Can they not change their mind? Yes, they can.
Don’t think so see above.Likewise with those in the lake of fire.
You are speaking for God. There’s absolutely no Scriptural evidence those Judged and cut off from the Kingdom of God later repent and join the Kingdom.Being in the lake of fire won't change God's way of being willing to save Christ rejecters. Is His hand shortened that He is unable to save? Has His love expired like a carton of milk? Is the blood of Christ powerless for those for whom it was shed?
The logic? What do you believe happens on Judgement Day. Does not Christ separate the sheep from goats? The sheep go on to eternal life and the goats go on to eternal punishment.No, as i've told you already several times before, with repentance & faith they will be cleansed by the blood of Christ. Sufferings do not cleanse anyone of sins. And you've provided no logic that proves they couldn't be cleansed by Jesus' blood.
Sure it does. It says Christ was Crucified.Paul's gospel in 1 Cor.15:1-4 doesn't speak of the blood of Christ either.
No. The references you gave present a case for universalism based on (1) a Root Word Fallacy and (2) some slick eisegesis.The references i gave show universalism is true.
Irrelevant. And Romans 5:18-19 refers to salvation through Christ's "one just act" & "obedience":
Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for ALL MANKIND for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for ALL MANKIND for life's justifying."
Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."
Did not see anything about the atonement in 1 John 1:21 Jn.1:2 says the atonement is for the whole world. Jn.1:29 says the Lamb will take away the sin of the world. Not let sin, death, evil & tortures endure endlessly.
Did not see anything about the atonement in 1 John 1:2
John 1: NASB
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
The same John the Baptist who said:
Matthew 3: NASB
7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11I baptize you withb water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
Yes while still alive here on earth. You do acknowledge a Judgement Day?
Yes while still alive here on earth. You do acknowledge a Judgement Day?
That’s the point of Judgment Day. Those in Christ enter The Kingdom, those not in Christ are cut off.
Revelation 21: NASB
5And the One seated on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then He said, “Write this down, for these words are faithful and true.” 6And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7The one who is victorious will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
8But to the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and sexually immoral and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. This is the second death.”
Revelation 14: NASB
9And a third angel followed them, calling out in loud a voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand,10he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
New International Version
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2
No mention of any expiry date there, when the blood of Jesus no longer avails, or is powerless to save. Nowhere does Scripture say His blood ever becomes unable to cleanse the sins of those for whom Christ shed His blood.
Chaff is worthless.Chaff is neither annihilated forever or eternally tortured.
It is burned up because it is worthless.When burned it is transformed into something else & ascends upwards towards heaven.
Yes tares are useful for fuel and used to produce fire. Burned up, never becomes wheat and associated with the enemy Satan.Wheat is quite useful for food...tares are quite useless for food, but are useful for fuel, but only if burned as they are in Mt. 3:12.
From Isaiah 12. A continuation of Isaiah 11 which is the restoration of the remnant of Israel.[1.] God's anger being corrective: "Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me."
Not final judgement or associated with the GWT on Judgement Day. The 1 Timothy 1:19-20 quote as dealing with apostates is debatable. But that is another discussion.[2.] To apostates being corrected (1 Tim.1:19-20)
[3.] To the sexually immoral "brother" for his salvation (1 Cor.5:4-5)
[4.] To those of the church in Corinth who were suffering weakness, sickness or death as judgments (1 Cor. 11:29-31)
[5.] This judgement sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:
"Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double" (Rev.18:6)
Heb.2:2b every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty
This is not final judgement.[6.] The judgement of God's wrath corrects a sinner for his own good: "Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness." (Micah 7:9)
Another instance of not providing the context:[7.]Even those whom He punished & they have refused to repent God promises to eventually heal & restore: Isa.57:16 For I will not accuse you forever, nor will I always be angry; for then the spirit of man would grow weak before Me, with the breath of those I have made. Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him; I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart. 18 I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners
How long is an age? Ages of ages? Ages of ages sounds like eternal or everlasting to me. And it should because if we want to take your root word fallacy to the extreme, olam concretely means "beyond the horizon." Meaning beyond what we can see. And as we walk on a spheroid, we will continue to observe beyond what we can see. Which is eternal...beyond what mankind can fathom or 'see' or comprehend. AKA beyond space and time which was a creation and which the Creator is not bound.Young's Literal Translation
and the smoke of their torment doth go up to ages of ages; and they have no rest day and night, who are bowing before the beast and his image, also if any doth receive the mark of his name.
I don't accept the CLV as a credible English language translation. It is colored with theological bias of Universalism and soul sleep. It is also suspect on passages regarding the Deity of Jesus Christ in John 1:1-2 and Colossians 2:9.Once again, for the third time in your post, it's same issue (& the same Greek word/s; aion/ion) as the OP of this thread & Rev.14 above. Your version has changed the words of scripture into man's theological opinion. More honest accurate and literal translations are like this:
20 Yet law came in by the way, that the offense should be increasing. Yet where sin increases, grace superexceeds, 21 that, even as Sin reigns in death, thus Grace also should be reigning through righteousness, for life eonian, through Jesus Christ, our Lord.
<omt>You have argued with those who believe in the doctrine of apokatastasis for quite some time now and yet you still have to ask the question "what do the unrepentant have to do and when do they have to do it?" I find that quite remarkable as it seems you haven't studied apokatastasis and what those who believe in it adhere to, or at the very least have not even understood the arguments you were replying to. Nonetheless to answer your question, the simple answer is the unrepentant who end up in the lake of fire spend an age of time there, are punished/chastised for their sin, until such time that they repent so that "so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father" (Phil 2:10-11); thus fulfilling God's stated purpose in Col 1:20: "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."begin
You wrongly assume that I have never read this passage. I have read the scripture and addressed the argument many times. The unrepentant will indeed bow theirs knees and proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord as David prophesied.
If we take what you are implying 1 John 2:2 is saying, then no one will be judged or suffer loss. Meaning there is no need for the lake of fire. In effect you are saying Jesus died and rose for everyone, therefore by His work, and no change or response from us all are saved. I'm sorry but the full revelation of Holy Scriptures does not support this.
Yes tares are useful for fuel and used to produce fire.
Did not see anything about the atonement in 1 John 1:2
John 1: NASB
29The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
The same John the Baptist who said:
Matthew 3: NASB
7But when John saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his place of baptism, he said to them, “You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8Produce fruit worthy of repentance. 9And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11I baptize you withb water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
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