Could a planet really develop a brain?

dlamberth · May 12, 2025

Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

SelfSim · May 12, 2025

dlamberth said:
Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

Meh .. maybe .. Maybe not.

I don't mind the conclusion at the end of the article .. (which basically neutralises the whole idea):

I cannot claim that what I describe will happen. Nor can I even say I believe it is statistically probable. It is for me one analytic possibility of uncertain likelihood. The argument traces a hopeful path into the future, but that hope should not bias our assessments of the path's likelihood of success.

The more interesting question is; if we can say its already well under way, right here on Earth, why should it ever happen again elsewhere in the universe?

Bradskii · May 13, 2025

dlamberth said:
Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

One of the hard problem aspects for debate is whether consciousness needs to be carbon based or can it be inanimate silicon etc. Even though the conscious process (information in via different paths, mechanical, electrical and chemical processes) is relatively well understood, is there something about animate material that gives rise to qualia (assuming that it would be a requirement for consciousness).

There is the old thought experiment where you replace individual neurons with a silica replicant that does exactly the same job as the original. Do you lose consciousness for some reason as more neurons are replaced? If yes, then a planet wide consciousness is not viable. If no, then it must be possible.

Hans Blaster · May 13, 2025

dlamberth said:
Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

Where to they get these dumb ideas? Seriously, what is wrong with those people?

Warden_of_the_Storm · May 13, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
Where to they get these dumb ideas? Seriously, what is wrong with those people?

It's a small segment of science fiction.

Gregory Thompson · May 13, 2025

dlamberth said:
Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

Sounds like the marvel universe.

SelfSim · May 13, 2025

Gregory Thompson said:
Sounds like the marvel universe.

Whilst I'd agree that it sounds like sci-fi fodder, there appears to be organisations set up to further develop AI autonomy .. (no not the Terminator's parent company: 'Skynet').
Here's one such example: XenonStack's Automated Machine Learning page. Its suspiciously very high level stuff ... which would suggest someone's more creative musings, over actual substance .. but hey: this is typically how these things start out, no(?)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As an example of AI autonomous design, technically speaking, I don't see why AI can't be tasked with exploring areas that we humans already recognise as being beyond our present-day understanding. (Eg: Unexplored areas of AI's neural network architectures that human AI designers may have put in the 'too-hard' basket?)

Gregory Thompson · May 13, 2025

SelfSim said:
Whilst I'd agree that it sounds like sci-fi fodder, there appears to be organisations set up to further develop AI autonomy .. (no not the Terminator's parent company: 'Skynet').
Here's one such example: XenonStack's Automated Machine Learning page. Its suspiciously very high level stuff ... which would suggest someone's more creative musings, over actual substance .. but hey: this is typically how these things start out, no(?)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As an example of AI autonomous design, technically speaking, I don't see why AI can't be tasked with exploring areas that we humans already recognise as being beyond our present-day understanding. (Eg: Unexplored areas of AI's neural network architectures that human AI designers may have put in the 'too-hard' basket?)

Sounds like the institute from Fallout 4.

SelfSim · May 13, 2025

Here we go .. Artificial Neurons:

An artificial neuron is a mathematical function conceived as a model of a biological neuron in a neural network. The artificial neuron is the elementary unit of an artificial neural network.

Somewhat more disturbingly however:

.. Simple artificial neurons, such as the McCulloch–Pitts model, are sometimes described as "caricature models", since they are intended to reflect one or more neurophysiological observations, but without regard to realism. Artificial neurons can also refer to artificial cells in neuromorphic engineering that are similar to natural physical neurons.

AV1611VET · May 13, 2025

dlamberth said:
Could a planet really develop a brain?

No.

Brains are developed in utero.

Hans Blaster · May 14, 2025

linux.poet said:
Maybe if the planet was made of carbon or silicon. As it stands, the Earth is made of aluminum with cores of iron, so the probability of such a development for Earth is probably zero.

At least 5 elements are more abundant than aluminum in the Earth including iron, oxygen, and silicon.

Apple Sky · May 14, 2025

AV1611VET said:
No.

Brains are developed in utero.

Einsteins take on the brain ......

2PhiloVoid · May 14, 2025

Gregory Thompson said:
Sounds like the marvel universe.

Yes, it kinda does..............

Ego the Living Planet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.......... which makes it all that much more believable.

Hans Blaster · May 14, 2025

linux.poet said:
Abundance of elements in Earth's crust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Aluminum beats iron for abundance in the Earth's crust.

I suppose we could go into the prospects for silicon based life, which gets into this: Does silicon-based life exist?

Basically silicon bonds with oxygen to make an inorganic lattice, and since oxygen is the #1 element down there (apparently) the whole idea is rather self defeating.

Where are the OP et al. proposers building their fantasy planet brain?

AV1611VET · May 14, 2025

Hans Blaster said:
Where are the OP et al. proposers building their fantasy planet brain?

Well you can't build one from scratch.

Even Frankenstein's brain was recycled.

(Okay -- the Frankenstein monster's brain.)

SelfSim · May 14, 2025

I'm not at all clear that everyone has read the OP linked article(?)

As an aid to this discussion I'll quote from the article on what the author is talking about:

.. let's eliminate any possibility of confusion: I postulate the growth of an emergent neural network — one whose totality is not designed by humans, even if its initial constituent parts are.

A neural network is not a vertebrate or invertebrate brain.

I'm interpreting the topic as being about envisaging where an autonomously enabled AI might take itself in the future.

Gregory Thompson · May 14, 2025

2PhiloVoid said:
Yes, it kinda does..............

Ego the Living Planet - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

.......... which makes it all that much more believable.

Yepp, since it is questionable if the son of an actual planet grew a brain ...

truthuprootsevil · May 14, 2025

dlamberth said:
Here's another take on AI and consciousness.

"But what if Spaceship Earth is itself developing (and indeed has already developed much of the infrastructure to support) a single emergent consciousness?"

"Could a planet really develop a brain? A mind? Would such an outcome be desirable, and could we thwart that development if not? I don't claim to predict what will happen, but rather what could happen. My contention is that Earth may, if we are lucky and diligent and clever enough, grow an emergent superconsciousness.

Could a planet really develop a brain?

What if ..... From the scientific theories from the origin of life to the theory of evolution that tiny organism developed into what we see today and brainy. Through the most accepted process abiogenesis non-life sprouted life, chemical compounds, is there life within the earth herself or do she just sprout life. A brain is we view it as we know it, hard to imagine. But if the Earth could somehow form a brain most likely the first thing she would do is calculate a way to get rid of mankind.

linux.poet · May 14, 2025

SelfSim said:
A neural network is not a vertebrate or invertebrate brain.

I'm interpreting the topic as being about envisaging where an autonomously enabled AI might take itself in the future.

Basically we’re doing the intelligent design argument all over again. Since all A.I.s are intelligently designed, could an A.I. the size of a planet develop itself from random chance and “disprove” human intelligent design for A.I.?

Even if humans (or other A.I.s) were overseeing the process, we would need tons of electricity, silicon, and other rare metals on the candidate planet to power a neural network that big and some method of cooling to deal with the heat.

SelfSim · May 14, 2025

linux.poet said:
Basically we’re doing the intelligent design argument all over again. Since all A.I.s are intelligently designed, could an A.I. the size of a planet develop itself from random chance and “disprove” human intelligent design for A.I.?

Even if humans (or other A.I.s) were overseeing the process, we would need tons of electricity, silicon, and other rare metals on the candidate planet to power a neural network that big, some method of cooling to deal with the heat, and you’re still dealing with the pressure crushing circuits near the center of the planet. And even if we did build such a thing, it would need a powerful antenna to communicate with other planets and life forms, otherwise this hypothetical A.I. planet would be basically useless.

Huh? Where did all that come from? (Its certainly not how I read the OP article). 'Random chance' never appears in it(?)

Eg: the author says:

The planetary brain, if it emerges, would likely arise from AI-enhanced, human-made institutions: technologically sophisticated corporations and the governments regulating them, or what we collectively term "postindustrial economies," themselves increasingly cybernetic.

Essentially he's asking if it could organise the assembly of the basic piece-parts that humans have already put into place. Humans would still stay around in that future.

There's nothing about 'disproving human intelligent design for AI'(?)

Could a planet really develop a brain?

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