Could a Christian support the death penalty knowing a few innocent may be executed?

[JohnB445]

We live in a country where government cannot take life, liberty, or property away from anybody without due process, and also gives the right to citizens to have a lawyer. Most on death row are guilty, but it is factual that some innocents have been executed. This is an irreversible mistake, unlike life-imprisonment which they can later be freed when found innocent and even compensated like the person who received over a million dollars from government.

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

 

[Richard T]

We live in a country where government cannot take life, liberty, or property away from anybody without due process, and also gives the right to citizens to have a lawyer. Most on death row are guilty, but it is factual that some innocents have been executed. This is an irreversible mistake, unlike life-imprisonment which they can later be freed when found innocent and even compensated like the person who received over a million dollars from government.

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

A great post. I am good if they do away with the death penalty. But an alternative would be to have stricter requirements for evidence and witnesses for those receiving the death penalty.

You mentioned in the first sentence that everyone gets due process. I generally agree with the exception of the USA government taking forfeitures and seizing money. There also are some environmental fines and penalties that may be assessed with no trial or due process. I imagine there are other abuses too. Old legal quirk lets police take your money with little reason, critics say

Due Process Challenges in Environmental and Natural Resources Law

Environmental and natural resources attorneys are likely to encounter a broad range of due process issues in their practices. In the administrative and civil i

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Hoping2]

We live in a country where government cannot take life, liberty, or property away from anybody without due process, and also gives the right to citizens to have a lawyer. Most on death row are guilty, but it is factual that some innocents have been executed. This is an irreversible mistake, unlike life-imprisonment which they can later be freed when found innocent and even compensated like the person who received over a million dollars from government.

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

To the OP...No.

 

[High Fidelity]

In the Western world there is zero justification for the death penalty when there are the means of life-long incarceration. Anything more is plain murder.

 

[AlexB23]

We live in a country where government cannot take life, liberty, or property away from anybody without due process, and also gives the right to citizens to have a lawyer. Most on death row are guilty, but it is factual that some innocents have been executed. This is an irreversible mistake, unlike life-imprisonment which they can later be freed when found innocent and even compensated like the person who received over a million dollars from government.

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

Should Christians support the death penalty? In my opinion, nope, cos I am a Catholic Christian, and support a Consistent Life Ethic, from womb to tomb. From a practical standpoint, if one wants to make Christianity as a whole look clean, it is better to be consistent with our pro-life ideology instead of being lukewarm (as in allowing for some forms of death, while banning others). I will not judge others who support the death penalty, but here is a verse.

John 8:7 (KJV): "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

This verse from Jesus means that whoever has no sin, throw a rock at the woman. However, as all humans are fallen and commit sins, that means no human is fit to judge an execution on anyone, so therefore the rock should not be thrown at the woman for her crimes.

CLE Explained:

Consistent life ethic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Mark Quayle]

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

You pose two distinct (though perhaps overlapping) main points here. 1. Whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws. 2. Should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

Which are you after? 1. Assumes there is a severe flaw: There are several, and condemning and executing the innocent is not the worst of them. God will see that justice is done, and those who are released that deserve execution will get what's coming to them, if Christ has not died for them. 2. Doesn't even mention the category except to decry a severely flawed system with severe mistakes. But, God will see justice is done, and that misleading statements won't prevail forever, for political means.


Do you still beat your wife?

 

[St_Worm2]

Here are a couple of passages to consider concerning the death penalty.

Acts 25​

10 Paul said, “I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried. I have done nothing wrong to the Jews as you also very well know.
11 If, therefore, I am in the wrong and have committed something deserving death, I am not trying to avoid execution; but if there is nothing to the accusations which these men are bringing against me, then no one can hand me over to them. I appeal to Caesar.”
12 Then when Festus had conferred with his council, he answered, “You have appealed to Caesar; to Caesar you shall go.” ​

​

Romans 13​

1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist have been appointed by God. ​

2 Therefore whoever resists that authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. ​

3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of that authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; ​

4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not ~bear the sword~ in vain, for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.​

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

Here are some facts to consider from the US.

In 2023, there were 24 people (who were all tried and found guilty of committing capital offenses) who received the death penalty and were executed for their crimes (23 men and 1 woman).

During the same year, 1,026,690 unborn children (who were completely innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever) lost their lives to abortion, and that without any form of social intervention or judicial due process, whatsoever.

--David

 

[St_Worm2]

Finally, while I am a BIG fan of our former First Lady, Melania Trump, I am not a fan of what she had to say about abortion in her new, NYT #1 bestselling book, Melania.

I don't want to take a chance of derailing this thread (which is about the death penalty), but if you'd like to read a short excerpt from her memoir (concerning abortion) and why I believe that her views and reasonings in favor of abortion are wrong, just click here and you'll be taken to a different thread, here at CF.

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - you will also find my reason for believing that the many governments in our world today who have chosen to permit abortions to take place, clearly had no right to do so.

 

[Diamond72]

Most on death row are guilty

We are all worthy of death under the law. For me life is always the right choice.

• Leviticus 24:20: "Fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. The one who has inflicted the injury must suffer the same injury."

According to the law of Karma we must suffer the same injury that we cause others. Or as they say in the hood, what comes around goes around. Actions have consequences,

I think about this sometime. The pain I have caused others and how I wish I could go back and fix that and make things right.

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

If you support the idea of government, then I don't see any legitimate opposition to the death penalty even if innocent people are going to be executed. Namely because the government will always, at some point, kill innocent people. We don't think about jail as the appropriate punishment for certain crimes even though we know that there innocent people who are locked up for long periods. Why do we support such injustices? Because the good of them outweighs the negatives and so we understand a perfect system cannot exist and to expect it to be perfect is foolish.

There are crimes worthy of death and there are means of knowing a person is definitively guilty of their crime. Society does not have to tolerate the existence of such people who would undermine and pose a severe threat to it.

 

[DavidTheGnome]

Honestly, if I'm ever convicted of a murder I did not commit, I'd rather get a death sentence than a life sentence.

 

[jas3]

Here are some facts to consider from the US.

In 2023, there were 24 people (who were all tried and found guilty of committing capital offenses) who received the death penalty and were executed for their crimes (23 men and 1 woman).

During the same year, 1,026,690 unborn children (who were completely innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever) lost their lives to abortion, and that without any form of social intervention or judicial due process, whatsoever.

--David

This statistic is important both because it highlights the absurdity of the hand-wringing about capital punishment in the face of the abortion crisis, and it is a reminder of how rare executions actually are. If anything, the number of executions is astoundingly low considering the prevalence of certain types of crime.

 

[St_Worm2]

This statistic is important both because it highlights the absurdity of the hand-wringing about capital punishment in the face of the abortion crisis, and it is a reminder of how rare executions actually are. If anything, the number of executions is astoundingly low considering the prevalence of certain types of crime.

Hi jas3, I agree with you about the above (though even a single, innocent life taken by the death penalty is, of course, way too many).

BTW, I probably should have mentioned another sad stat that I found while researching this, that the pre-Dobbs number of abortions (when Roe was still in effect nationally) was considerably lower than the post-Dobbs numbers are (IOW, there are many more abortions being performed now, under Dobbs, than there were for the last few years under Roe).

There has also been a surge in "at home" medical abortions post-Roe, because the medicines are better/safer, and since COVID, they can simply be ordered online. Perhaps this is where the real increase in the number of abortions is coming from, but I'm not sure how they could get an accurate count (since these are being done privately at home)?

 

[Diamond72]

but it is factual that some innocents have been executed.

• California leads the nation in exonerations as defined by the National Registry of Exonerations with 120, surpassing Illinois (110), Texas (100), and New York (100). ...
• Since 1989, courts have exonerated or dismissed convictions against 214 Californians.

Innocent people are in prison. With the discovery of DNA a lot of men wrongly convicted in Florida have been released. The people are convinced they are criminals. In the OJ Simson case people were convinced that he was guilty but they did not have enough evidence to bring a conviction in criminal court. Of course he had a million dollars to defend himself but still the whole due process of law is highly questionable.

 

[Diamond72]

If you support the idea of government,

The only government we support is when Jesus will rule and reign for 1,000 years.

Isaiah 9:6:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

The only government we support is when Jesus will rule and reign for 1,000 years.

Isaiah 9:6:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

Okay so we don't support political order while living on Earth. Fascinating. Explain your anarchism to me. Do you oppose all governing authorities?

 

[trophy33]

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

Just because of these ethical questions alone, the death penalty should not be a part of any democratic country legal system, IMO.

 

[Diamond72]

Okay so we don't support political order while living on Earth. Fascinating. Explain your anarchism to me. Do you oppose all governing authorities?

The Israelites asked for a king to govern them, like other nations, even though God had established a system of judges and priests. Here is a key verse:

• 1 Samuel 8:6-7: "But when they said, 'Give us a king to lead us,' this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. And the Lord told him: 'Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.'"

Thomas Paine expressed the idea that minimal government is preferable. One of his famous quotes is: "That government is best which governs least." This reflects his belief in limited government and the importance of individual liberty. He wrote the book common sense. My dad had his quote on the wall of his office.

Ronald Reagan endorsed the approach of smaller government. He believed in reducing the size and influence of the federal government, advocating for policies that empowered individuals and limited government intervention. His administration focused on cutting taxes, reducing federal regulations, and promoting free-market principles.

Reagan famously said, "Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." This encapsulates his belief in minimal government intervention.

Donald Trump has consistently advocated for reducing the size and scope of the federal government. During his presidency, he emphasized deregulation and cutting government spending.

he stated, "We are now reducing the size, scope, and cost of Federal regulations for the first time in decades, and we are already seeing the incredible results"1. His proposed budgets aimed to shift responsibilities back to state and local governments, aligning with his belief in a smaller federal government.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

We live in a country where government cannot take life, liberty, or property away from anybody without due process, and also gives the right to citizens to have a lawyer. Most on death row are guilty, but it is factual that some innocents have been executed. This is an irreversible mistake, unlike life-imprisonment which they can later be freed when found innocent and even compensated like the person who received over a million dollars from government.

This topic is about whether a Christian can support this system even with its severe flaws, it is not about a theory of which system is better if no mistakes were made. I put this here to keep the thread on topic and so the discussion doesn't stray away from the main point of should we support a severely flawed system where severe mistakes are made.

And this brings up an important question, would the state or government be guilty of murder if a mistake was made and a innocent person was executed? Who would be guilty? Or would they not be guilty because they didn't know or does ignorance not excuse them?

The reason there are flaws in the system is due to the presence of way too much ethical diversity and racism. The death penalty itself isn't the problem.

It should go without saying that someone who, without the shadow of a doubt is known to have psychopathically murdered another individual, or individuals, should be promptly put down by the state. Why we moan and groan about this is beyond me.

Remove whatever vestiges of racism remain in the brains of judges and lawyers everywhere, and I think we can begin to see a more balanced and ethically mature application of the Death Penalty when and where it should be applied.