Copts and Fasting

[SuperCloud]

Okay, Copts. Fasting is an annual or important thing among lay Copts? If so when do you guys fast. Is it the same with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church too?

I came up as a Vatican II child in Catholicism, so, I don't know anything about fasting. Other than I fasted from coffee for a year once, just for a personal thing but not connected to religion nor an offering to God.

 

[Shane R]

Coptic fasting is extensive throughout the church year. However, this does not mean that all members fast in the same manner. Fasting is a personal exercise which is dependent on the ability and will of the person entering the fast.

Also, in the east fasting is not necessarily a total fast as when one goes for a medical test. Fasting is typically abstinence from meat and oil. When one first begins to fast it is good to find an experienced mentor within the congregation who can give guidance as to alternate food choices and a rule of prayer because fasting should always be accompanied by additional focus on prayer. If one contributes to the agape meal at church it is also good to consult an experienced parishioner to see if a dish would be unwelcome at a given time in the church year by those who fast rigorously.

 

[dzheremi]

Okay, Copts. Fasting is an annual or important thing among lay Copts? If so when do you guys fast. Is it the same with the Ethiopian Orthodox Church too?

Yes, the Ethiopians and the Copts share the same 7 major fasts. In fact, they share the same calendar, since the Ethiopian calendar is ultimately rooted in the Coptic (though with different month and day names, of course). The Ethiopian (as well as the Eritrean) church is considered to be the daughter of the Coptic, as it was our father HH Pope Athanasius the Apostolic who sent Ethiopia her first bishops after the conversion of the kingdom to Christianity under King Ezana. The seven major fasts are:

1. The Great Fast (Lent)..... ዐቢይ ጾም (55 days; moveable)
2. Wednesday and Fridays.... የረቡዕ እና ዓርብ ጾም (except for the "Holy 50" days after Easter; this is the only time during the whole year where there is no fasting)
3. Nineveh..... ጾመ ነነዌ (Copts generally call this "Jonah's Fast"; moveable -- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday two weeks before Lent)
4. Gehad (the eves of Christmas and Epiphany).... ጾመ ገኀድ (I don't think this has a special name for the Copts, or if it does I've never heard it; we count the fasting on the eve of the Nativity to just be part of the regular Nativity Fast, Nov. 25-Jan. 6. Also, I think this puts the Ethiopians' fasting as slightly more strict than ours, as I am not aware of any fasting on the eve of Epiphany; I'm looking at our calendar now, and the closest thing to it is the circumcision feast on the 14th of January, whereas the Epiphany isn't until the 19th. I suppose if there's a vigil to be kept leading up to Epiphany, that would necessitate fasting, but it's not marked off on our calendar as such, as it appears to be for the Ethiopians.)
5. The fast of the prophets or advent...... ጾመ ነቢያት (This is what we call the Nativity Fast in the Coptic Church; the 40 days before the Nativity on Jan. 7, as described above)
6. The fast of the Apostles ...... ጾመ ሐዋርያት (Monday after Pentecost to July 11; some Ethiopian sources I've found say July 12, but I'm assuming they're counting the Feast as the end of the fast, since Ethiopians have the feast of the Apostles on that day just like we do, to commemorate the martyrdom of St. Peter & St. Paul)
7. The fast of the Assumption of the Holy Virgin Mary. ....ጾመ ፍልሰታ ለማርያም (August 7-21)

As you can see, Copts and Ethiopians fast for a lot of the year. Just the Wednesday/Friday fast alone makes up almost 100 days (it would be 104 exactly if we didn't have the Holy Fifty, but we have to subtract a few days because of that), and then the 55 for Lent, the 40 for the Nativity, the 14 for St. Mary, the 3 for Jonah. I have read that it is over 200 days a year of fasting, but I've never counted it myself. I have no doubt it is true, however.


I do not know where Shane got his information, but it is something of a "Coptic peculiarity" (at least relative to the more well-known Byzantine tradition) that we can use oil in moderation during the fasts, so long as it is not made from animals. Ful (Egyptian fava bean dish that is a staple of the Coptic diet, since it is vegan) would be pretty miserable and dry without it! As far as restrictions during the fasts are concerned, it is essentially a vegan diet, abstaining not only from meat but also from all other animal products (all kinds of dairy), though it is worth noting that some Coptic fasts actually allow for the consumption of fish (an admitted modification of the original practice, to help the elderly, the infirm, and children stick to some kind of fasting), though never on a Wednesday or a Friday during a fasting period even if it is allowed elsewhere during that same fast. (This one makes no difference for me; I am not a fan of fish, and skip the Shem al-Nissem feast every year as a result, since the whole church eats fish on that day..."Sorry, Abouna...I am not Egyptian, you know!" )

 

[SuperCloud]

Coptic fasting is extensive throughout the church year. However, this does not mean that all members fast in the same manner. Fasting is a personal exercise which is dependent on the ability and will of the person entering the fast.

Also, in the east fasting is not necessarily a total fast as when one goes for a medical test. Fasting is typically abstinence from meat and oil. When one first begins to fast it is good to find an experienced mentor within the congregation who can give guidance as to alternate food choices and a rule of prayer because fasting should always be accompanied by additional focus on prayer. If one contributes to the agape meal at church it is also good to consult an experienced parishioner to see if a dish would be unwelcome at a given time in the church year by those who fast rigorously.

The sound of this automatically reminded me of the martial arts. Different levels of experience, ability, and mentorship. And then the prayer aiding the spiritual dynamic of the physical discipline.

 

[SuperCloud]

Yes, the Ethiopians and the Copts share the same 7 major fasts. In fact, they share the same calendar, since the Ethiopian calendar is ultimately rooted in the Coptic (though with different month and day names, of course). The Ethiopian (as well as the Eritrean) church is considered to be the daughter of the Coptic, as it was our father HH Pope Athanasius the Apostolic who sent Ethiopia her first bishops after the conversion of the kingdom to Christianity under King Ezana. The seven major fasts are:

1. The Great Fast (Lent)..... ዐቢይ ጾም (55 days; moveable)
2. Wednesday and Fridays.... የረቡዕ እና ዓርብ ጾም (except for the "Holy 50" days after Easter; this is the only time during the whole year where there is no fasting)
3. Nineveh..... ጾመ ነነዌ (Copts generally call this "Jonah's Fast"; moveable -- Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday two weeks before Lent)
4. Gehad (the eves of Christmas and Epiphany).... ጾመ ገኀድ (I don't think this has a special name for the Copts, or if it does I've never heard it; we count the fasting on the eve of the Nativity to just be part of the regular Nativity Fast, Nov. 25-Jan. 6. Also, I think this puts the Ethiopians' fasting as slightly more strict than ours, as I am not aware of any fasting on the eve of Epiphany; I'm looking at our calendar now, and the closest thing to it is the circumcision feast on the 14th of January, whereas the Epiphany isn't until the 19th. I suppose if there's a vigil to be kept leading up to Epiphany, that would necessitate fasting, but it's not marked off on our calendar as such, as it appears to be for the Ethiopians.)
5. The fast of the prophets or advent...... ጾመ ነቢያት (This is what we call the Nativity Fast in the Coptic Church; the 40 days before the Nativity on Jan. 7, as described above)
6. The fast of the Apostles ...... ጾመ ሐዋርያት (Monday after Pentecost to July 11; some Ethiopian sources I've found say July 12, but I'm assuming they're counting the Feast as the end of the fast, since Ethiopians have the feast of the Apostles on that day just like we do, to commemorate the martyrdom of St. Peter & St. Paul)
7. The fast of the Assumption of the Holy Virgin Mary. ....ጾመ ፍልሰታ ለማርያም (August 7-21)

As you can see, Copts and Ethiopians fast for a lot of the year. Just the Wednesday/Friday fast alone makes up almost 100 days (it would be 104 exactly if we didn't have the Holy Fifty, but we have to subtract a few days because of that), and then the 55 for Lent, the 40 for the Nativity, the 14 for St. Mary, the 3 for Jonah. I have read that it is over 200 days a year of fasting, but I've never counted it myself. I have no doubt it is true, however.


I do not know where Shane got his information, but it is something of a "Coptic peculiarity" (at least relative to the more well-known Byzantine tradition) that we can use oil in moderation during the fasts, so long as it is not made from animals. Ful (Egyptian fava bean dish that is a staple of the Coptic diet, since it is vegan) would be pretty miserable and dry without it! As far as restrictions during the fasts are concerned, it is essentially a vegan diet, abstaining not only from meat but also from all other animal products (all kinds of dairy), though it is worth noting that some Coptic fasts actually allow for the consumption of fish (an admitted modification of the original practice, to help the elderly, the infirm, and children stick to some kind of fasting), though never on a Wednesday or a Friday during a fasting period even if it is allowed elsewhere during that same fast. (This one makes no difference for me; I am not a fan of fish, and skip the Shem al-Nissem feast every year as a result, since the whole church eats fish on that day..."Sorry, Abouna...I am not Egyptian, you know!" )

7 fasts! and every Wed. and Fri.? You people are nuts!

I say that part jokingly. Although, all that fasting you listed throughout the year did shock me.

What if you are new to fasting like me and a lazy undisciplined person in this regard, kind of like a "fat" body coming to a gym for the first time? I can't have a BBQ pork sandwich on Wednesdays?

 

[dzheremi]

That's where the pastoral care you are to be receiving from your priest should come in. While I didn't talk about it previously, since you asked about the length and severity of the fasts and not about exceptions or ways to fast, Shane is right that there are situations that will lead people in the same church to fast differently. The Church is not unreasonable or overly rigid in its application of fasting rules. What I have mentioned are the norms as I understand them, but there have been times in my own life when I have been specifically told not to fast, for various reasons. This is not to say that if you go to your priest and say "It's hard, so I'm not doing it", he'll automatically say "Oh, okay; stop fasting, then", but that ideally there should be an open and honest enough relationship between a priest and his spiritual children that you can go to him when you are having those kinds of troubles, and he can advise you in a way that is tailored to your situation as he understands it. Being the only Orthodox Christian in my family, for instance, always presents challenges for me when I go home to visit around the holidays, not only because I inevitably miss the last bit of the Nativity fast (as well as the Nativity feast), but because obviously nobody around me at home is fasting. In that case, my priest has assured me that I can modify the regime as appropriate so as to not make a show of my fasting -- i.e., if we eat a home-cooked meal, I eat whatever is served to me and am thankful for it, but if we go out to eat and there is a vegetarian option, I should order that without mentioning why, since it's nobody's business but God's how I am fasting. There is in fact a story in the Sayings of the Desert Fathers (forgive me, I cannot remember off the top of my head which father/s it concerns) of a pair of monks who are friends and reuniting after a long period of not seeing one another. In celebration, one brings a bird for them to eat. This prompts the father to say "I'm sorry, but since I have become a monk, I have not let meat into my body" (I can't eat that). His friend replies "I understand; since I have become a monk, I have not let anger reach as far as my throat." This moves the first monk to apologize and ask for forgiveness, since he recognizes that his friend's way of fasting is the true and best way, even if it includes meat which monks normally do not consume.

With all that said, I would feel confident that as a new member of the church, no priest would put you through a rigorous fasting regime. My first fast after I was baptized was very difficult for me (and I don't remember for sure, but I think it was Jonah's, the three-day fast...hahaha), even though I had been trying to ready myself for it by participating in the the Wednesday and Friday fasts of my own volition. I even called up a friend of mine from church and explained to him that I was feeling light-headed and unwell, and he (just a regular layman, like me) immediately told me to stop fasting and go eat something. The fast is not meant to be an endurance test and it is certainly not meant to endanger your health or your life. We keep these fasts because they are handed down to us by our fathers as means of spiritual discipline, not for their own sake. So if you have trouble with abstaining from dairy, for instance, but your prayers on this account and in other areas are tripled during the fasts, you are still progressing. If you abstain from hateful words, you are still progressing. Spiritual fitness is the goal. As is often said, we don't look at a brother's plate. (Read: Judging someone's fast is worse than not fasting at all.)

Orthodoxy is interesting in this regard for someone coming from an RC background as I know both you and I do, since outwardly it seems very harsh and extreme (relative to Western Christianity, which does not fast at all in the modern day), but inwardly it is very merciful, pastoral, and pragmatic. I thought to myself, prior to converting, that I could never make it through 55 days of Lent that included actual fasting, rather than the Western-style view of "What individual habit am I going to sort of try to not indulge in so much?". Lo and behold, at the end of my first Lent I was actually chastised (lightly, since everybody knows I'm new and liable to make mistakes) by the priest for not stopping fasting for the Holy Fifties! I had gotten so used to the rhythm of life during the fast, that I completely ignored/forgot that there is NO fasting for the 50 days after Easter. I don't know why, but I guess I thought that we must still keep the Wednesday and Friday fast, so when I asked Fr. Philemon how I could handle having out-of-town visitors that Wednesday and Friday, he was confused. "What do you mean?" "You know, for the weekly fast?" "What weekly fast?" "The Wednesday and Friday fast this Wednesday and Friday?" "WHAAAT? You are still fasting?! Oh no, no, no! You know that there is NO fasting during the 50 days after Easter, right? This is the time to enjoy the new life with Christ!" One of deacons, after having a good chuckle, told me he sometimes forgets too, but I think he was just trying to make me feel less embarrassed. Haha. With the kind of schedule our church keeps, it is just easier to assume that we are always in a fasting period, but that is not always the case.

 

[SuperCloud]

Illuminating, dz. I didn't expect any of what you just wrote in that last post. And while reading it the light bulb came on and incrementally got a little brighter, realizing how so very, very, very immature and far away (depraved even in some aspects) I am spiritually.

I always knew I was never a very good Christian. I was aware that my Christianity, my personal Christianity, was or is primarily in the head, intellectual. It's one of history books or essays. Knowing rules. One of philosophizing. One of trying to show the atheists we (religious people) are not stupid as they often accuse.

I thought the fasts were for self mortification and for militant self disciplining. Army Rangering Christianity rather than being a "fat" sailor. Who wouldn't want to be an Army Ranger? Except fear of crossing or failing to cross the crucible.

That old knife in teeth militancy of old Catholicism (or at least the impressions I have of it in my mind) with priests sharply dressed in cassocks, always has held some appeal to me.

From you--or your Coptic Church I guess--I'm learning that militancy and endurance for their own sake, their own prize, is not what the Christian should be setting aim for or even celebrating and romanticizing.

 

[dzheremi]

That old knife in teeth militancy of old Catholicism (or at least the impressions I have of it in my mind) with priests sharply dressed in cassocks, always has held some appeal to me.

Well I'm not quite sure how you mean this, but there is a tradition in the Coptic Church of military and other warrior saints, so I wouldn't say that we're completely absent some sense of militancy. There is St. Mina the soldier (not to be confused with the other St. Mina, who was not a soldier), St. George of Lydda (the Roman soldier who slayed the dragon), St. Philopateer Mercurius (commonly known in Arabic as "Abu Seifein", or "Father/Holder of the Two Swords", from the legend that he was given a second sword with which to fight by the Archangel Michael), and the Martyrs of the Theban Legion, a group of soldiers from Roman Egypt who were martyred in the Swiss Alps for refusing to renounce their Christian faith (St. Victor/Boctor, who I mentioned in the thread about Coptic names, is one of them). But I think maybe, with due respect to the Roman Catholic Church, the Coptic Church takes different lessons from these saints than the RC does from its own history of militancy, because our subsequent history is different. The last major organized Coptic armed resistance to Arab-Muslim hegemony in Egypt that I know of was the Bashmurian revolt around the middle of the 9th century, when local Copts expelled state workers overseeing the collection of the jizya (non-Muslim tax) and refused to pay it. In more recent times, resistance has had to take a more covert form, such as the practice of tattooing the cross on the wrist (a reminder of the long centuries when the Muslim rulers would do that to them in order to identify who was Christian and who wasn't, for the purposes of collecting the jizya; now Copts get it tattooed on themselves willingly, to say "Yes, I am Christian, and I am not ashamed").

The Roman Catholic Church never really experienced anything like that, despite being the target of various anti-clerical movements in Europe and the Americas (which, it could be argued, was people under it revolting against it, rather than the Coptic situation of Christians revolting against a non-Christian power).

From you--or your Coptic Church I guess--I'm learning that militancy and endurance for their own sake, their own prize, is not what the Christian should be setting aim for or even celebrating and romanticizing.

It may sound cheesy, but the way I've heard it put by very traditional priests is that the first/ultimate/most basic rite of the church is love and humility. Without love and humility, anything we do is in vain. So, yes, endurance and militancy must be put to work in their own way for the betterment of the lives of others, and of the spiritual life of the believer. What does it say in the Psalms, after all? "He does not delight in the strength of the horse; He takes no pleasure in the legs of a man. The Lord takes pleasure in those who fear Him, In those who hope in His mercy." (Psalm 147)

So nothing done for its own sake is in keeping with how we are to live, but we do celebrate those who have been steadfast in living according to the above. St. Moses the Ethiopian, for instance, was by all accounts a very strong man, and used his strength in many robberies and murders as a bandit, before he repented of his former life and came to the monastery. Now he is one of the brightest luminaries of the Orthodox Church, not because of his strength and willingness to fight (NB: he willingly sacrificed himself together with his brother monks before an attack of the Berbers), but because he had the true strength of humility before God which transformed him from an unrepentant murderer and thief into a holy man whose virtues we still aspire to today. Were it enough to simply say that such and such took up arms in God's cause, you might expect to see Crusades to drive the Muslims out of Egypt like you saw in the Holy Land, but that was a mainly Byzantine phenomenon. Hundreds of years before Muhammad and company ever existed, the holy men and women of the desert were instead choosing a different path that involved a different kind of 'militancy' (but again, not for its own sake), in the form of the monastic movement. They were militant (though not rigid) in fasting, they were militant in prayer, they were militant in all kinds of sacrifice for the hope that through dedication to prayer and repentance they might win mercy for the world. It has been said that this is what has kept the Coptic Orthodox Church alive through nearly 2000 years of persecution by all people (the pagans, the Byzantines, the Muslims). Not to play a tit-for-tat game, but I can't help but notice that the tiny Coptic Catholic Church (about 167,000; almost all in Egypt) does not maintain monasteries in the Coptic Orthodox tradition, only Western-style religious orders (I know they have some Franciscans, and also probably some Jesuits).

True strength is in militancy in the name of Christ for the sake of perseverance, so as to be counted among those who stayed on the narrow path. It has nothing to do with impressing others with how long you fast or pray or whatever. Believe me there is nothing glamorous about eating beans and rice 200 days a year. But if this is what we must do as part of the overall goal to grow nearer to God, then we do it. It's not super-human or extraordinary. In fact it is very ordinary. That is what has made great Christian saints for two millennia: Ordinary people, doing quite ordinary things and living the quite ordinary lives of persistence who, through their dedication in small things, have been blessed by God to do great things. He who is faithful in little is faithful in much. (Luke 16:10)

 

[Shane R]

I do not know where Shane got his information

From a deacon who was my mentor when I entered the Coptic Orthodox church. I have also read HH Pope Shenouda III on fasting but his work was primarily philosophical and did not deal so much with the 'rules' of fasting.

 

[dzheremi]

From a deacon who was my mentor when I entered the Coptic Orthodox church. I have also read HH Pope Shenouda III on fasting but his work was primarily philosophical and did not deal so much with the 'rules' of fasting.

Hmm. Well, normally I would chalk it up to regional differences to the extent that they may exist, but we're in the same diocese, so...I don't know. Haha. I do know that HH Pope Shenouda III mentions fasting with oil for St. Mary's fast (you can find this piece of writing on St. Mary & St. Moses Abbey's resources page, labeled "Monastic library"), and I was told specifically by both our priests that oil is allowed so long as it is not derived from animals and not overly indulged in (i.e., use it to cook only, not to dip bread in or what have you).

 

[SuperCloud]

You always have me thinking about something, dz. Your post #8 was another one for me to take things from to think about.

This right here has me thinking too:

It may sound cheesy, but the way I've heard it put by very traditional priests is that the first/ultimate/most basic rite of the church is love and humility. Without love and humility, anything we do is in vain.

Hmm... I think when I argue or debate it's done out of vanity, considering what you have said.