Controversial Music: Is It OK To Listen To It?

[Verv]

Is it OK for a person, any person, who does not have the ideological beliefs of the music just to listen to it anyways because they like it?

For instance, I listen to a lot of very controversial music. I listen to zero Christian music. However, I do listen to music of bands that are decidedly anti-Christian and even some of these band members have participated in desecration and arson of Churches (Burzum, Mayhem, Genocide Kommando).

I listen to music that essentially supports evil for evil's sake. I sometimes even listen to music that is blatantly racist.

I see no issue in it... Over the last 10 years I have been listening to decidedly anti-Christian bands and it has had no influence on me. It just sounds nice to me. I do not feel corrupted or wrong about it.

Even as I am on the Christian Forums taking pro-Christian stances I am listening to Mutilation's "Destroy Your Life For Satan."

And you know what? I think, if anything, it would be better for people to not care about the messages in music so much and not take themselves too seriously.

If we always erect barriers and do not confront the controversial with some shoulder shrugs and relaxed viewpoints, how will we ever hope to connect with people who identify with it?

The most powerful conversations I have had with anti-Christians have been at metal concerts; the most interesting conversations about my conservative political views at punk concerts. And I think more than anything by taking things at their value and trying to appreciate a wider range of things as well as not building barriers between yourself and others you build bridges that help people open their minds to your own views, your own thoughts, etc.

I think one of the reasons why Satanic music is made is because it is such a taboo and people grow up with these preconceived notion about the intolerance of Christians. In a way, through our toleration and even our interest in it, and through just friendly discourse and getting to know people, we can achieve far more.

I also want to note: many of the antichristians I have met have had Christianity forced on them and while I was a youngster trusted to make my own decisions while being brought up in a positive Christian home I felt like I was never pushed away from Christ by having it forced on me.

There is no point in speaking out hopelessly against a small minority of people who are already entrenched against you. I think the only way to do it is to get into the trench with them, shake hands and have a nice conversation about your favorite bands -- and really, it is harmless.

Christ did not become a prostitute or a thief for hanging out with them.

and more than that: This is the music I like.

 

[sidhe]

I'm a Thelemite, and I rock the Mahalia Jackson and Blind Boys of Alabama.

I like controversial music. Actually, I just like music. Oddly, I don't like a lot of Swedish Black Metal.

Nothin' wrong with that.

 

[sidhe]

Dp!

 

[cantata]

I sing in the college chapel choir. It doesn't mean I agree with the sentiments.

I have difficulty coping with some of it - mostly the very misanthropic hymns - but I sing along anyway because the deep, animal experience of losing oneself in music frequently surpasses and defies its purported message. Pretty much all of the most beautiful choir music composed is church music, and that's fine by me. If the composers thought they were distilling divinity in their scores, good for them. I appreciate it on a different level - so what?

 

[LittleNipper]

Is it OK for a person, any person, who does not have the ideological beliefs of the music just to listen to it anyways because they like it?

For instance, I listen to a lot of very controversial music. I listen to zero Christian music. However, I do listen to music of bands that are decidedly anti-Christian and even some of these band members have participated in desecration and arson of Churches (Burzum, Mayhem, Genocide Kommando).

I listen to music that essentially supports evil for evil's sake. I sometimes even listen to music that is blatantly racist.

I see no issue in it... Over the last 10 years I have been listening to decidedly anti-Christian bands and it has had no influence on me. It just sounds nice to me. I do not feel corrupted or wrong about it.

Even as I am on the Christian Forums taking pro-Christian stances I am listening to Mutilation's "Destroy Your Life For Satan."

And you know what? I think, if anything, it would be better for people to not care about the messages in music so much and not take themselves too seriously.

If we always erect barriers and do not confront the controversial with some shoulder shrugs and relaxed viewpoints, how will we ever hope to connect with people who identify with it?

The most powerful conversations I have had with anti-Christians have been at metal concerts; the most interesting conversations about my conservative political views at punk concerts. And I think more than anything by taking things at their value and trying to appreciate a wider range of things as well as not building barriers between yourself and others you build bridges that help people open their minds to your own views, your own thoughts, etc.

I think one of the reasons why Satanic music is made is because it is such a taboo and people grow up with these preconceived notion about the intolerance of Christians. In a way, through our toleration and even our interest in it, and through just friendly discourse and getting to know people, we can achieve far more.

I also want to note: many of the antichristians I have met have had Christianity forced on them and while I was a youngster trusted to make my own decisions while being brought up in a positive Christian home I felt like I was never pushed away from Christ by having it forced on me.

There is no point in speaking out hopelessly against a small minority of people who are already entrenched against you. I think the only way to do it is to get into the trench with them, shake hands and have a nice conversation about your favorite bands -- and really, it is harmless.

Christ did not become a prostitute or a thief for hanging out with them.

and more than that: This is the music I like.

My question might be, why is it you can listen to rude controversial music but not Christian music. Isn't Christian music contoversial to atheists? JESUS was GOD in the flesh. Are you that strong morally?

 

[lawtonfogle]

My question might be, why is it you can listen to rude controversial music but not Christian music. Isn't Christian music contoversial to atheists? JESUS was GOD in the flesh. Are you that strong morally?

Eh, I sometimes listen to music which is controversial to my own beliefs. If my own beliefs are strong, the cognitive dissonance caused by listening to controversial music will not change my beliefs, if they are weak, then I may be looking for new beliefs. Cognitive dissonance is why I devil advocate so much, and why I think others should too. It will cut away false or weak beliefs quicker than any introspecting I have ever encountered.

At the same time, I don't listen to music I don't like as far as sound. So I don't listen to much metal at all, if any at all. I also shy away from most country, and most if not all rap. A lot of what I listen to is instrumental in nature, if not actuality.

 

[cantata]

By the way: there is music that I find hard to listen to for ideological reasons. Extremely misogynistic music, like some mainstream hip-hop, makes me feel very uncomfortable, and I find it hard to appreciate its other qualities because I find myself feeling overwhelmed by the attitude that I dislike. However, I have no problem with other people listening to it, as long, of course, as they don't share the misogynist attitudes that the people performing the song apparently hold.

Of course, if it's tongue in cheek, it's a different matter. Ben Folds has covered a Dr Dre song with absolutely disgusting lyrics, but when he sings it it's super-cute and also very funny.

 

[LittleNipper]

Eh, I sometimes listen to music which is controversial to my own beliefs. If my own beliefs are strong, the cognitive dissonance caused by listening to controversial music will not change my beliefs, if they are weak, then I may be looking for new beliefs. Cognitive dissonance is why I devil advocate so much, and why I think others should too. It will cut away false or weak beliefs quicker than any introspecting I have ever encountered.

At the same time, I don't listen to music I don't like as far as sound. So I don't listen to much metal at all, if any at all. I also shy away from most country, and most if not all rap. A lot of what I listen to is instrumental in nature, if not actuality.

Well, I loved Simon & Garfunkel and Moody Blues. The lyrics and music were great, but also very humanistic or "New Age" with regard to the values being presented. I recongnized the fact when they were wrong but liked their music anyway...

 

[lawtonfogle]

Well, I loved Simon & Garfunkel and Moody Blues. The lyrics and music were great, but also very humanistic or "New Age" with regard to the values being presented. I recongnized the fact when they were wrong but liked their music anyway...

Having said what I did, I think I should point out that music which is too controversial (or sexual, as much current day music is), being I don't enjoy that. In the end, if I don't like the song, I don't listen to it.

 

[keith99]

By the way: there is music that I find hard to listen to for ideological reasons. Extremely misogynistic music, like some mainstream hip-hop, makes me feel very uncomfortable, and I find it hard to appreciate its other qualities because I find myself feeling overwhelmed by the attitude that I dislike. However, I have no problem with other people listening to it, as long, of course, as they don't share the misogynist attitudes that the people performing the song apparently hold.

Of course, if it's tongue in cheek, it's a different matter. Ben Folds has covered a Dr Dre song with absolutely disgusting lyrics, but when he sings it it's super-cute and also very funny.

I was going to mention that at least some hip-hop/rap is very different. The one I think of is Gangster's Paradise. Of course one has to listen without the preconception that all rap is bad. A fair hearing makes it pretty clear the song is descriptive of some bad areas, but is far from praising them.

 

[B'alaam]

and more than that: This is the music I like.

Well then, by all means, listen to what you like

I personally adore Switchblade Symphony and Wench

 

[cantata]

I was going to mention that at least some hip-hop/rap is very different. The one I think of is Gangster's Paradise. Of course one has to listen without the preconception that all rap is bad. A fair hearing makes it pretty clear the song is descriptive of some bad areas, but is far from praising them.

Oh gosh, don't get me started on the thinly-veiled racism behind a lot of people's disdain for hip-hop! Rest assured that I am a fan of a fair amount of hip-hop, some of which has been hopelessly misinterpreted by people who are quick to judge music made by groups of black men...

 

[Athene]

I don't think it is ok to listen to music which espouses racism or misogyny or other hatred towards any group of people, if a person was shouting in the street the same sentiments expressed in some songs we wouldn't listen and applaud, we'd throw things, heckle, try and disrupt as much as possible. But if it's a 'musician' with a band and a microphone it becomes a-ok to express the most horrible sentiments....I just don't understand it.

I've made the moral choice not to support bigotry, intolerance and hatred and I don't believe these things become acceptable just because they're sung to music.

 

[Verv]

My question might be, why is it you can listen to rude controversial music but not Christian music. Isn't Christian music contoversial to atheists? JESUS was GOD in the flesh. Are you that strong morally?

I think it is because there of two reasons:

- I haven't readily found very hard Christian music minus a few bands here or there. I like very hard music, a very strong and hard sound, and I cannot avoid it.

- I almost like the controversy -- it feels like a sort of release to hear messages like that.

By the way: there is music that I find hard to listen to for ideological reasons. Extremely misogynistic music, like some mainstream hip-hop, makes me feel very uncomfortable, and I find it hard to appreciate its other qualities because I find myself feeling overwhelmed by the attitude that I dislike. However, I have no problem with other people listening to it, as long, of course, as they don't share the misogynist attitudes that the people performing the song apparently hold.

Of course, if it's tongue in cheek, it's a different matter. Ben Folds has covered a Dr Dre song with absolutely disgusting lyrics, but when he sings it it's super-cute and also very funny.

It does bother me a bit as a message because it is easy to think of what they are doing as cool and mainstream and a lot of the people who listen to it I feeel, since it is so popular of a genre, do not have the foresight to really critcize the message.

I do not worry that much about controversial underground music because I think if you are smart enough to seek out that music you would be smart enough to criticize the message, as well.

I don't think it is ok to listen to music which espouses racism or misogyny or other hatred towards any group of people, if a person was shouting in the street the same sentiments expressed in some songs we wouldn't listen and applaud, we'd throw things, heckle, try and disrupt as much as possible. But if it's a 'musician' with a band and a microphone it becomes a-ok to express the most horrible sentiments....I just don't understand it.

I've made the moral choice not to support bigotry, intolerance and hatred and I don't believe these things become acceptable just because they're sung to music.

Of course they are things that I do not support but I feel like I am not supporting it so much as just listening to the music which I do not feel is a crime or immoral.

 

[cantata]

I'm very suspicious of any so-called "media effects". While I do think that "the media" have an effect on people, I don't think the effects they have are of the nature of making people become violent or misogynistic or whatever. Everyone thinks it's everyone else and everyone else's children who'll be affected. Oh, white middle-class people could never be influenced by the media! You know what? 14-year-olds will tell you that they'd never be encouraged to murder someone from listening to violent music, but of course an 11-year-old might. It's all nonsense. Everyone assumes that everyone else is stupider than them.

I am made personally uncomfortable by some music, so I don't listen to it; but while I abhor the message of some hymns, I sing along anyway, because for me the loveliness of the music itself outweighs the misanthropy of the words. I don't think it makes me misanthropic, so I can only conclude that it wouldn't make others misanthropic either, tempting as it is to assume that they're all less capable of sound judgement than I am...

 

[sidhe]

Well then, by all means, listen to what you like

I personally adore Switchblade Symphony and Wench

Switchblade Symphony FTW!

Do you like Tre Lux?

 

[Autumnleaf]

What you put into your body by watching movies or listening to music has an effect on you and how you are. It has a way of manipulating train of thought which relates to our actions. If all you heard and saw was noble and good then it would be all you know so it would be likely that you would be that way without having to try. The compulsion to sin would be as fleeting as the urge to go to the bathroom while you sit on the couch watching television. It would easily be summarily dismissed because 'nobody pees on the couch'. But instead of good stuff people take in sin-related media which appeals to our baser instincts. If you saw tv and heard songs about peeing on the couch and everyone was doing it, then when that urge came you might be more inclined to not walk over to the bathroom...

 

[cantata]

What you put into your body by watching movies or listening to music has an effect on you and how you are. It has a way of manipulating train of thought which relates to our actions. If all you heard and saw was noble and good then it would be all you know so it would be likely that you would be that way without having to try. The compulsion to sin would be as fleeting as the urge to go to the bathroom while you sit on the couch watching television. It would easily be summarily dismissed because 'nobody pees on the couch'. But instead of good stuff people take in sin-related media which appeals to our baser instincts. If you saw tv and heard songs about peeing on the couch and everyone was doing it, then when that urge came you might be more inclined to not walk over to the bathroom...

Can you cite some actual evidence to back this assertion?

Correlational studies won't do, I'm afraid.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Can you cite some actual evidence to back this assertion?

Correlational studies won't do, I'm afraid.

Can you? How would you go about setting up a randomized controlled trial to prove or disprove such a thing? Do you even understand what you are asking?

 

[cantata]

Can you? How would you go about setting up a randomized controlled trial to prove or disprove such a thing? Do you even understand what you are asking?

Yes, I do. I merely wished to indicate, and I think I have done so, that your comments, like anyone else's, are mere speculation.

That the media cause people to do terrible things has passed into "common sense", but I've never seen any evidence to convince me that it's true. In fact, there's some evidence to the contrary: despite widespread panic about every new form of media over the centuries (cheap novels, music halls, theatre, cinema, videos, the internet), the panicked prophesies of tabloid newspapers have never come to pass. "The masses" didn't explode into riots because of the "penny dreadfuls", and they won't all go out and kill each other because of rap music, either.

Controlled studies aren't necessary. You can just take a glance at human history.