Contraception

[patricius79]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

what was Onan's sin?

Judah got a wife named Tamar for his first-born, Er. 7 But Er, Judah's first-born, greatly offended the LORD; so the LORD took his life. 8 3Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line." 9 Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too.

 

[solarwave]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

No, because it isn't morally wrong and makes no sense to say it is.

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

I don't know.

what was Onan's sin?

Judah got a wife named Tamar for his first-born, Er. 7 But Er, Judah's first-born, greatly offended the LORD; so the LORD took his life. 8 3Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line." 9 Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too.

His sin was to purposely not do his duty to preserve his brothers line.

 

[princess_ballet]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

Yes. Read here.

 

[lovernotafighter]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

No.

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

No.

what was Onan's sin?

Judah got a wife named Tamar for his first-born, Er. 7 But Er, Judah's first-born, greatly offended the LORD; so the LORD took his life. 8 3Then Judah said to Onan, "Unite with your brother's widow, in fulfillment of your duty as brother-in-law, and thus preserve your brother's line." 9 Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother's widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too.

Onan disregarded his duty.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

... the Catholic Church no longer "condemns" contraception. It is the biggest proponent and teacher of such in the world, teaching people how to have sex but not have kids (it's has a unique form of birth control - not typically very effective but contraceptive in purpose nonetheless).

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

I've not seen one. But yes, I suspect spouses that never has sex for fear of conceiving probably do have a higher divorce rate - but I have NO data on that (I'm not sure that's even been studied). "Link" is often meaningless - "correlation does not imply causation" we all learned in high school....

what was Onan's sin?

He didn't fulfill a certain Old Testament requirement (which doesn't exist anymore).





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[patricius79]

No, because it isn't morally wrong and makes no sense to say it is.

I don't know.



His sin was to purposely not do his duty to preserve his brothers line.

why doesn't it make sense to say that contraception is wrong?

we know as Christians that a means to an end--even a just end--can be intrinsically wrong

that is why I know that in principle NFP might be fundamentally different from contraception.

so isn't it at least possible that the Reformed and historic Trinitarian interpretation is correct?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

NFP might be fundamentally different from contraception.

It IS contraception. For probably 90%+ of the users of this method, the purpose is solely, only contraceptive: how to have sex but not conceive. What you do so as to not conceive is, by definition, CONTRA-ceptive. "Family PLANNING" by using birth control methods that includes having sex is obviously and undeniably contraceptive. Now, before the 1960's, when it was the popular (but unofficial) RCC teaching that couples should just have sex and trust God OR just become a sexless marriage - THAT could be seen as being opposed to contraception and birth control methods. But stressing that contraception is good and being the world's largest teacher of contraceptive birth control methods seems not to be, IMO.






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[cowboysfan1970]

There are more Protestants that are beginning to move against it.

 

[sunlover1]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

God says that the reason for marriage (besides companionship)
was to produce godly offspring.
With contraception (condom, NFP or any other) this is not the goal.
The goal is NO pregnancy.
So were they wrong? Dunno, depends on if you think God wants
godly offspring born to a woman every year.
I've done my part!

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

with abstaining... probably! (Wives GIVE your husband their dues)

 

[er72]

1. In my opinion, no. But for others, if they don't want to use it, more power to them. It's an individual decision.

2. No.

3. Failing to fulfill his duty to his family.

 

[Drax]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

It takes a supreme amount of arrogance to denounce their teachings in favor of 20th century drivel, so I'll say that they were absolutely right.

 

[er72]

It takes a supreme amount of arrogance to denounce their teachings in favor of 20th century drivel, so I'll say that they were absolutely right.

Yeah, the catholic church has never been wrong. Right Galileo?

 

[patricius79]

It IS contraception. For probably 90%+ of the users of this method, the purpose is solely, only contraceptive: how to have sex but not conceive.

I don't imagine that is true

but why do you think that fertility awareness and abstinence are equivalent to sex with withdrawal e.g.?

if two means that can be used for the same end must be morally equivalent, then wouldn't that mean that robbing a bank and working as a plumber must be morally equivalent if one's goal is to make a living for one's family?

 

[Bryne]

I have used NPF exclusively for years. I tend to agree with the Catholic position in regards to artificial birth control. I am very much against any form of birth control that may act as an abortifacient. I am more willing to leave barrier methods up to the conscience of the individual, but still choose not to use them myself.

 

[sunlover1]

I have used NPF exclusively for years. I tend to agree with the Catholic position in regards to artificial birth control. I am very much against any form of birth control that may act as an abortifacient. I am more willing to leave barrier methods up to the conscience of the individual, but still choose not to use them myself.

I was raised RCC and so felt that any form of controlling birth was wrong.
So I left that in God's hands...

I am neutral about it.
What each person feels is right for them,
it's between them and God.
imo.

 

[Erose]

were the reformers and the Catholic Church right to condemn contraception?

I think that you need to add "artificial" before contraception. The Church has always condemned the use of artificial contraception, but never has condemned natural methods such as NFP and abstinence.

is there a strong link between contraception and divorce?

Probably not directly but one can argue indirectly with artificial contraception leading more to promiscuous sex and as such a much more loosing of morals. Which we all can see has grown exponentially since the advent of artificial contraception. Pope Paul VI predicted this in his historic document Humane Vitae:

17. Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.

All of these predictions have come true.

what was Onan's sin?

I agree with the other posters on this one as well.

 

[Erose]

Yeah, the catholic church has never been wrong. Right Galileo?

Maybe you ought to do better research before you make false accusations.

 

[narnia59]

I'm thinking the Baptists are coming right along. Go Baptists!

The “contraceptive mentality” that has resulted from the widespread -- and often unquestioned -- use of the pill has raised deep concerns among younger evangelicals, he said.
“I detect a huge shift,” Mohler said. “Students on our campus are intensely concerned. Not a week goes by that I do not get contacted by pastors about the issue. There are active debates going on. It's one of the things that may serve to divide evangelicalism.”

Baptist Press - Mohler in NYT: Evangelicals re-thinking “contraceptive mentality” - News with a Christian Perspective


And more on Albert Mohler's views
AlbertMohler.com – Can Christians Use Birth Control?


The idea of contraception itself is becoming morally questionable to people I think through the consequences of the ‘sexual revolution,’ or what we could even call the ‘contraceptive revolution’ – the whole idea that sex is recreational, that it’s not about children and family and marriage. The consequences of that, as they are worked out in society, with the predictions of Pope Paul VI coming true – these are causing people to look at it again and re-think what they took for granted, and I would count myself among those who are doing so. I am in the process of re-thinking contraception from a natural law perspective, and I would be at the point now of thinking that it really is inconsistent to embrace contraception, and then to not embrace the rest of the sexual revolution.
A Baptist’s opposition to contraception

 

[narnia59]

Yeah, the catholic church has never been wrong. Right Galileo?

The Smithsonian did quite a lovely piece on Galileo and his troubles with the church and why. Not as exciting as the mythology that surrounds the issue, but educational nonetheless.


Galileo's Vision | Science & Nature | Smithsonian Magazine

 

[patricius79]

I have used NPF exclusively for years. I tend to agree with the Catholic position in regards to artificial birth control. I am very much against any form of birth control that may act as an abortifacient.

yes and apparently both the Mini Pill and the Combination Pill--and any other hormonal contraceptives that work similarly--are abortifacient

it's also interesting that the Lerner scientific survey found a .2% divorce rate among NFP users, as well as more frequent sex