Contraception- deeply insidious

[Filia Mariae]

Hello all-

I know I haven't been around much lately. I've missed all of you, but I just don't have the time, regrettably.

Anyway, I've been doing a lot of studying of our Holy Father's works, including Theology of the Body, Love & Responsibility, etc.

Through a lot of prayer and study, I've come to realize just how insidious and damaging contraception is. I mean, I always accepted the Church's teaching on it, and believed it to be wrong but I never understand how disruptive it is to true love in terms of self-gift. Every day I'm coming to see more deeply the truth of the Church's continual teaching on this subject. For that, praise God.

But it also saddens me that so many of our Protestant brothers and sisters who are sincere, devout Christians who truly love our Lord and want to serve and follow Him don't even think about contraception as a moral issue, or if they do they often think it is a matter of responsible stewardship.

How can we reach out to our brothers and sisters in Christ with the truth of this teaching? It is so beautiful, so rooted in Scripture and respect for God's creation in man that I know many sincere Protestants would be receptive to it, if they only heard it presented lovingly and in a clear manner.

 

[geocajun]

Cary, I am getting pretty good at being able to tell a contracepting couple from a non-contracepting couple after a few minutes of talking to them about their faith.
I think those of us who are open to God's will in our lives, not limited to even our fertility, are by our very faith a strong witness to others as evidenced by the blessings we have received in our children.
We have a fundamentalist friend who thinks contraceptives are a gift from God. When she first met us, she really thought Catholics were stupid, and just recently she has told us that she thinks we are the best Christians she knows. How flattering is that? she knows that when we say "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" we mean it completely. She still thinks contraceptives are a gift from God, but I have no doubt that she will figure it out after a while.
That total trust in God is appealing to people.
There are many other ways to evangelize the culture of life, but the witness we give by living our faith like we are proud of it is a strong one.

 

[karla]

Cary, I am getting pretty good at being able to tell a contracepting couple from a non-contracepting couple after a few minutes of talking to them about their faith.
I think those of us who are open to God's will in our lives, not limited to even our fertility, are by our very faith a strong witness to others as evidenced by the blessings we have received in our children.
We have a fundamentalist friend who thinks contraceptives are a gift from God. When she first met us, she really thought Catholics were stupid, and just recently she has told us that she thinks we are the best Christians she knows. How flattering is that? she knows that when we say "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord" we mean it completely. She still thinks contraceptives are a gift from God, but I have no doubt that she will figure it out after a while.
That total trust in God is appealing to people.
There are many other ways to evangelize the culture of life, but the witness we give by living our faith like we are proud of it is a strong one.

Great post and I totally agree. I also believe that the best way to evangelize is to live what we preach and Live it out loud. When my husband and I first decided to do away with artifical contraception, I was a little reluctant to let other people know that because I knew what type of remarks I would get from family and friends. I finally got over it and now we talk about it openly with others and it is not something to be hidden or kept in secret. I still get the comments from some friends and family, but I think the more we discuss it and live it and are confident in it the more others will stop and think and appreciate and respect our views and decisions.

 

[Rosa Mystica]

Carly, have you ever heard of Sam and Bethany Torode? They are the authors of "Open Embrace: a Protestant Couple Rethinks Contraception." They were Protestants who looked into the issue (they're now Orthodox).

 

[Filia Mariae]

Carly, have you ever heard of Sam and Bethany Torode? They are the authors of "Open Embrace: a Protestant Couple Rethinks Contraception." They were Protestants who looked into the issue (they're now Orthodox).

I have heard of them...I believe they originally came to recognize contraception as sinful by studying theology of the body, although I could be wrong. I didn't know they had become Orthodox though.

Do the Orthodox uniformly condemn contraception? I didn't think they did. I thought one could get permission from one's bishop to contracept for serious reasons. Any Orthodox are asked to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[geocajun]

Do the Orthodox uniformly condemn contraception? I didn't think they did. I thought one could get permission from one's bishop to contracept for serious reasons. Any Orthodox are asked to correct me if I am wrong.

Unfortunately I recall the OCA website stating that the use of condoms was OK if one was given permission by their pastor.
I thuoght that was odd on 2 counts, one being first the abandoment of the traditional teaching, and the second being that the subjective morality of using it was predicated on the pastors consent rather than the couple themselves.

 

[Crispie]

I dont like to call myself a "protestant", but yes I am against it. Seems like there is many things people are just ignorent about and therefore niether think about it or take it into consideration. I would guess that if we brought the subject up more to people they would become more concerned with it. Especially if you slap in some scripture

 

[Filia Mariae]

I dont like to call myself a "protestant", but yes I am against it. Seems like there is many things people are just ignorent about and therefore niether think about it or take it into consideration. I would guess that if we brought the subject up more to people they would become more concerned with it. Especially if you slap in some scripture

Hey Crispie

One of the problems I have encountered when speaking to non-Catholic Christians about this subject is that since there is no Scripture which explicitly states "Thou shalt not contracept." Often, I find that people want such an explicit statement, or it is a no-go. Catholic theology looks at theology as a whole, as a unity, which is how this issue must be understood. Unfortunately, it doesn't lend itself to brief conversations and proof-texts. Any ideas on how to better appraoch this?

 

[raffster]

Carly,

Could you please elaborate what it is exactly about your current studying that made you say "I've come to realize just how insidious and damaging contraception is" ? That is quite a bold statement to make, given how much of the world's overpopulation-->povery is a result of NOT practicing contraception.

I grew up a Catholic in a 90% Catholic country and the whole concept of natural contraception is one of the reasons why I think the Church has to "rethink" its teachings. Six to seven is the average number of children of a poor family (the poor in the Philippines is about 65-70% of the entire population) who subsits on about $10/day. Why these poor families have so many children is because of their ignorance of contraception and the Church's incessant bombardment that contraception is SIN.

In your studies did you come across countries that could be doing so much better if they weren't too overpopulated?

I really don't understand why hardcore Catholics/Christians/*put your religion here* make such a big deal out of contraceptives. Do you really want your 14 year old teenage daughter (assuming you had one) coming home pregnant one day because you told her that using condoms was SINFUL? Of course you told her not to engage in pre-marital sex but she just couldn't help it now couldn't she. But her boyfriend and she could have prevented the unwanted pregnancy that will most likely ruin their lives. Or do you actually prefer that your teenage daughter come home pregnant after her first date?

Without contraceptives I would probably a father now to a 15 year old. When the truth is, I am still not ready to have children and I am 33 now. Becoming a father when I was 18 would have been a disaster. Do I regret using contraceptives? Of course not. I think it would have been a bigger sin becoming a father when I wasn't ready for it.

I don't get it, really, please tell me, what is SO WRONG about using contraceptives. In my opinion, the Catholic Church being against contraceptives is one of the most absurd teachings across all religions.

 

[Filia Mariae]

Carly,

Could you please elaborate what it is exactly about your current studying that made you say "I've come to realize just how insidious and damaging contraception is" ?

Well, I couldn't really in a concise manner, no. If you are actually interested in studying the matter in depth I HIGHLY recommend you read Theology of the Body.

That is quite a bold statement to make, given how much of the world's overpopulation-->povery is a result of NOT practicing contraception.

The world isn't overpopulated. This is an absurd myth.

I grew up a Catholic in a 90% Catholic country and the whole concept of natural contraception is one of the reasons why I think the Church has to "rethink" its teachings. Six to seven is the average number of children of a poor family (the poor in the Philippines is about 65-70% of the entire population) who subsits on about $10/day. Why these poor families have so many children is because of their ignorance of contraception and the Church's incessant bombardment that contraception is SIN.

Contraception is sinful.

In your studies did you come across countries that could be doing so much better if they weren't too overpopulated?

Again, overpopulation is a myth.

I really don't understand why hardcore Catholics/Christians/*put your religion here* make such a big deal out of contraceptives.

Because it makes the nuptial embrace which is an image if the inner life of the Trinity into a sterile lie about God's love for us.

Do you really want your 14 year old teenage daughter (assuming you had one) coming home pregnant one day because you told her that using condoms was SINFUL?

No. And presumably, if she listened to me about contraceptives being sinful, she would have listened to me about pre-marital sex being sinful.

Of course you told her not to engage in pre-marital sex but she just couldn't help it now couldn't she.

Well, actually she could have. She is not an animal.

But her boyfriend and she could have prevented the unwanted pregnancy that will most likely ruin their lives. Or do you actually prefer that your teenage daughter come home pregnant after her first date?

Please. We are people not animals. Contraceptives has encouraged this mentality in which people view themselves as animals who's sexual desires are uncontrollable and therefore need to be sterilized.

Without contraceptives I would probably a father now to a 15 year old. When the truth is, I am still not ready to have children and I am 33 now. Becoming a father when I was 18 would have been a disaster. Do I regret using contraceptives? Of course not. I think it would have been a bigger sin becoming a father when I wasn't ready for it.

I think you shouldn't have been having pre-marital sex, solving a whole host of problems.

I don't get it, really, please tell me, what is SO WRONG about using contraceptives. In my opinion, the Catholic Church being against contraceptives is one of the most absurd teachings across all religions.

You are not alone in your opinion. The sexual embrace is an image of the Trinity. It is at the very heart of what it means to be human. Therefore, it is what the devil goes after with the most vengeance, convincing people of his lies.

I cannot recommend enough that you study Love & Responsibility and Theology of the Body. At the very least, please check out this website:http://www.christopherwest.com/article4.htm

 

[Paul S]

Contraception is wrong because it is a perversion of sex. God created marriage (and sex) to be a total giving of a man and a woman to each other. When contraception is used, it's saying "I'll give you everything except my fertility - forget what God wants us to do."

Also, are you aware how a lot of contraception works? The pill and other chemical forms have two effects. They first try to prevent ovulation, but this doesn't work too well, so their secondary effect is to prevent the newly-conceived baby from implanting in the uterus, causing an abortion.

Having children does not cause poverty. The world is not overpopulated - you could fit all six billion people in Texas, in decent-sized lots. A big cause of poverty, I think, is too many laws restricting one's ability to do business. In relatively freer countries like the US, the poor are much better off than in many other places. There's other factors, of course, but it's certainly not family size.

If a couple is financially unable to support children, the Church allows natural family planning. And there's always the option of not having sex. Why people today think they should be allowed to have sex whenever and wherever they want with no consequences, I don't know.

And yes, I'd prefer my teenage daughter to realise that if she goes out and has sex, one of the possible consequences is she's going to have to raise a child for the next eighteen years. Maybe she'll think twice about having sex then.

Ultimately, the Catholic Church is against contraception because God is against contraception. Your icon says you're Catholic - you should know the Church was established by God as His way of teaching us. The Church didn't make up the teachings on Jesus or Mary or the Bible or the sacraments or homosexuality or contraception or any other issue; they were taught to her by Jesus through the guidance of the Holy Ghost. What's absurd is when we tell God, "I'll follow your teachings, Lord, except the ones I don't like." That's why we now have thousands of denominations instead of just the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church founded by Our Lord.

 

[Carrye]

That is quite a bold statement to make, given how much of the world's overpopulation-->povery is a result of NOT practicing contraception.

Poverty is a result of injustice, not a lack of contraception.

 

[Anthony]

NFP? This is used to space out children, not to avoid them. My understanding is Catholics aren't to use NFP as of method of no longer having children?

 

[geocajun]

NFP? This is used to space out children, not to avoid them. My understanding is Catholics aren't to use NFP as of method of no longer having children?

abstinence is used to space children.
NFP is a form of planning which can be used both to acheive or postpone pregnancy.
so often folks improperly equate "NFP" with "partial abstinence".

 

[RhetorTheo]

OCA.org on contraception:

The control of the conception of a child by any means is also condemned by the Church if it means the lack of fulfillment in the family, the hatred of children, the fear of responsibility, the desire for sexual pleasure as purely fleshly, lustful satisfaction, etc.

Again, however, married people practicing birth control are not necessarily deprived of Holy Communion, if in conscience before God and with the blessing of their spiritual father, they are convinced that their motives are not entirely unworthy. Here again, however, such a couple cannot pretend to justify themselves in the light of the absolute perfection of the Kingdom of God.

http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/q-and-a_old/Meeting-the-Orthodox.html#19

BIRTH CONTROL:
Though opinions vary among Orthodox on this issue, the view of most Orthodox bodies is that controlling conception through "natural family planning", or contraception, is acceptable for married couples, as long as it is done in a spirit of responsible Christian stewardship of life.

This means, first, that birth control will not be used merely because having and rearing children is seen as a financial or social inconvenience.

Secondly, it means that any form of contraception used will not be physically harmful to either spouse, and will not involve the abortion of a fertilized egg. Finally, the decision to utilize birth control, as well as the decision to have a child, must be a mutual one between both wife and husband.

http://www.uocc.ca/practices-b.html

This sounds much like the Catholic teaching on NFP. The difference is no distinction is made between NFP and other forms of controlling conception.

 

[raffster]

Well, I couldn't really in a concise manner, no. If you are actually interested in studying the matter in depth I HIGHLY recommend you read Theology of the Body.

Okay, I'll check that out. We had a whole semester dedicated to Abstinence while I was in senior high in a Jesuit School. The Catholic priest who taught us just wasn't convincing enough.

The world isn't overpopulated. This is an absurd myth.

If you do a search on "Overpopulation" on Google, I think you will find that your myth is a myth.

But for discussion's sake I'll just say that about 99.9% of poor countries are overpopulated. It's not the world but I honestly think that the Philippines wouldn't be in this deep mess right now if the Catholic Church in the Philippines had cooperated with the government to educate the poor people on the use of contraceptives.

Tell me, how has the Church teaching on "Abstinence" benefitted those extremely poor families with almost a dozen children? I remember a TV commercial spearheaded by a famous Jesuit priest that I found really disturbing. The priest said: "You should feed the poor instead of supporting the government providing in its contraceptive campaign." I guess the Jesuit succeeded, and where is the Philippines today?

Contraception is sinful.

Tell that to the 30+ Million Filipinos who are starving each day.

Because it makes the nuptial embrace which is an image if the inner life of the Trinity into a sterile lie about God's love for us.

I see your point -- crystal clear. (I was a very devout and fervent Catholic once). But will a family not eating 3 times a day? Imagine you and your entire family skipping lunch and dinner for a month (and have a cracker for breakfast) and tell me if you can still think straight. That is a true and real condition for many of my countrymen. Do you still seriously think that they are better off having a dozen children? What I'm trying to say is that it's not as difficult to follow Church teaching under favorable conditions (if you are middle class to wealthy and educated), but in the example I provided, isn't Abstinence outright impractical?

No. And presumably, if she listened to me about contraceptives being sinful, she would have listened to me about pre-marital sex being sinful.

That is what we all wish don't we. But that is a very narrow-minded and unrealistic perspective. The US has one of the highest cases of teenage sex/pregnancy. Imagine how many young couples could have avoided the disaster of teenage pregnancy if they just took that extra few minutes to put on that rubber.

Well, actually she could have. She is not an animal.

She is indeed not an animal, but a person, a human being who has strong passions/urges/desires. She could definitely say "NO" but the question is what if she gives in? I think what you're trying to say is that you'd rather see your teenage daughter get pregnant and face the consequences rather than her boyfriend to use a condom or she take contraceptives. Am I right?

Please. We are people not animals. Contraceptives has encouraged this mentality in which people view themselves as animals who's sexual desires are uncontrollable and therefore need to be sterilized.

I'm not sure where you are getting your "people are animals" perspective but that surely isn't what I think people are. Instead people make grave mistakes when they follow their desires foolheartedly. The angle where I'm coming from is (if it's not obvious by now) is that if and when the "urge" cannot be suppressed, the least the couple can do is prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

I think you shouldn't have been having pre-marital sex, solving a whole host of problems.

But I did and I couldn't cry over that. But I'd be crying now if I had to quit college, marry that college GF of mine and raise a child with a very dark future ahead just because I didn't put that rubber on.

You are not alone in your opinion. The sexual embrace is an image of the Trinity. It is at the very heart of what it means to be human. Therefore, it is what the devil goes after with the most vengeance, convincing people of his lies.

The devil doesn't need to do any convincing to make people desecrate the sexual embrace. I believe couples who engage in what we Catholics call "fornication" have enough hormones to trigger their "misconduct" and have no need for diabolical intervention. Do you really think Satan and/or his minions will bother to "convince" a couple to commit fornication when the couple has enough sexual fire to burn a building down? I think what the devil wants more than anything else is for people to SUFFER, to be in PAIN and to be in ANGUISH so that people will blame God for their misfortune and pain.

 

[Rising_Suns]

If you do a search on "Overpopulation" on Google, I think you will find that your myth is a myth.

"If the entire population of the world were put into the land area of Texas, each person would have an area equal to the floor space of a typical U.S. home and the population density of Texas would be about the same as Paris, France" http://www.ncpa.org/pd/pdint21.html

Tell me, how has the Church teaching on "Abstinence" benefitted those extremely poor families with almost a dozen children? I remember a TV commercial spearheaded by a famous Jesuit priest that I found really disturbing. The priest said: "You should feed the poor instead of supporting the government providing in its contraceptive campaign." I guess the Jesuit succeeded, and where is the Philippines today?

Tell that to the 30+ Million Filipinos who are starving each day.

So your solution to solve your perceived overpopulation problem is to allow mass killings of babies? The world has more than enough resrouces to feed everyone alive, with plenty to spare. Food is not the issue; the issue is proper distribution of the food.

She is indeed not an animal, but a person, a human being who has strong passions/urges/desires. She could definitely say "NO" but the question is what if she gives in? I think what you're trying to say is that you'd rather see your teenage daughter get pregnant and face the consequences rather than her boyfriend to use a condom or she take contraceptives. Am I right?

No, ideally she should not be having sex at all, and that's what she should be taught. Teaching people to use condoms in effect justifies sex and gives the message that it's ok to have sex out of wedlock.

I think what the devil wants more than anything else is for people to SUFFER, to be in PAIN and to be in ANGUISH so that people will blame God for their misfortune and pain.

Not exactly. Even Christians are called to suffer, as Scripture denotes. What the devil wants most is for people to not believe he exists and fall into indifference and lukewarm lifestyles, as what is exactly happening with people embracing contraception, thinking it will solve all their problems when in fact it only contributes further to the degradation of the family.

 

[Crispie]

I would probably use the scripture pertaining to that, was it a king, who used a type of birth control (probably better if I dont describe it) as an example of why contraception is bad.

 

[geocajun]

Rhetor, interesting. I used to have a link to the oca site where they explicitly stated that condoms could be used with the permission of ones priest, however it appears that was removed.
I wonder why they felt the need to state that last part however -

"[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Again, however, married people practicing birth control are not necessarily deprived of Holy Communion, if in conscience before God and with the blessing of their spiritual father, they are convinced that their motives are not entirely unworthy. Here again, however, such a couple cannot pretend to justify themselves in the light of the absolute perfection of the Kingdom of God."[/font]

 

[Rising_Suns]

You know, ever since contraception was introduced as a viable means in the 1960's, it began to take off, and as the use of contraception increased over the years, there was striking resemblence to the increase in divorce rates.

If one observes the curves of contraception use and divorce rates, there is almost a linear paralell fit between them. Quite coincidental, is it not?