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but why not look at current examples of atheist cultures that are all around us like Japan, Sweden, etc.?
Well, that's your view. I would say that Christianity claims both short and long term returns. I'd also be hesitant to say that atheism appears to make people better members of society.
Japan is a super society. A friend who travels to Japan often for work, told me they are the most genuinely considerate people you can imagine. I worry about the future of the US, but I don't worry about Japan.Japan is facing an enormous oncoming social disaster, with a TFR of 1.4 and a debt to GDP ratio of 230%. Not sure I would pick them as an example of a successful society.
Sweden isn't atheist, 63% believe in God and/or in some kind of spiritual force.
I'm not sure how you got the statistic that 63% believe in God in Sweden. Sweden and Norway are the promised land for atheists. Almost nobody believes in God there. A lot depends on the phrasing of the question in these surveys.
Japan is a super society. A friend who travels to Japan often for work, told me they are the most genuinely considerate people you can imagine. I worry about the future of the US, but I don't worry about Japan.
Japan is a super society. A friend who travels to Japan often for work, told me they are the most genuinely considerate people you can imagine. I worry about the future of the US, but I don't worry about Japan.
I'm not sure how you got the statistic that 63% believe in God in Sweden. Sweden and Norway are the promised land for atheists. Almost nobody believes in God there. A lot depends on the phrasing of the question in these surveys.
Sweden isn't atheist, 63% believe in God and/or in some kind of spiritual force.
Actually, that is the percentage of the population who belong to the Church of Sweden. The 18% represents the number of those who consider religion important in their lives but that doesn't make the other 82% atheists.
I think the reason so many liberal Americans have that impression is because in the US Christianity has been so tied up in right-wing politics which many of us consider self-serving, if not downright selfish. Of course it is wrong to equate American Evangelicalism to Christianity, unfortunately the former is what most of us see, or did see before a certain Latin American was elected Pope.
People often point to communist dictatorships from the past as examples of atheist culture, but why not look at current examples of atheist cultures that are all around us like Japan, Sweden, etc.? Hopefully the US will be counted as an atheist culture in a decade or two.
(Sorry, I keep dragging this thread off-topic. I'm going to stop following it, so that doesn't keep happening.)
The problem with communism IMO was their apparent belief that "the end justifies the means". Their goals were laudable. The Freemasons seemed to have similarly progressive goals, but they emphasized moderation, liberty, patience, etc. It is sad to see Putin promoting religion and fascism today after the USSR had made so much progress.I would argue that both Sweden and Japan are far from "atheism". Those nations allow freedom of religion and in the case of Sweden has a historic church that until 2000 was established. Whereas communism enshrined atheism as the official position of the State, in the firm belief that theism would fade away into history when people saw that the scientific approach taught in part by Marxist dialectical materialism was far superior and led to stable societies free from the struggles of superstition and clericalism. In fact it backfired terribly just as the preachers of the new atheism seem to be hitting a brick wall today.
"after the USSR had made so much progress."
?!
The USSR went bankrupt building weapons and killed tens of millions of its own citizens over its 70 year history.
O.k., I didn't mean to offend anybody, but I think delusional disorder is a plausible explanation for people who think they are divinely inspired. Many people don't understand delusional disorder, because they think all people with psychosis are obvious. I didn't know much about psychosis until my therapist told me that I had delusional disorder. That is why I learned about it. I don't think it was an accurate diagnosis, but I had something similar.
mmm hmm sister, or brotherMany, many people who think they are divinely inspired are definitely deluded.
That was Italy.Yeah, but, I heard the trains ran on time.
Maybe cloudyday2 meant post-USSR Russia when he wrote "USSR." It would be very hard to argue, with evidence, that there was much progress under Communism in the days of the USSR.
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