Consubstantiation

[Br. Xavier]

From what I understand, this is the Orthodox POV; so what is [any of] the ECC's?

 

[Anhelyna]

Our Orthodox Brethren believe that the Holy Gifts are indeed the Body and Blood of Our Lord God and Saviour.

Are you sure you have not confused CONsubstantiation and TRANsubstantiation ?

 

[Br. Xavier]

Our Orthodox Brethren believe that the Holy Gifts are indeed the Body and Blood of Our Lord God and Saviour.

Are you sure you have not confused CONsubstantiation and TRANsubstantiation ?

Lol no no, I know what that is, I just totally bludgeoned consubstantiation. In any case, what is thought of the Eucharist from Eastern Catholics and Orthodox.

 

[Gwendolyn]

The Orthodox believe in transubstantiation, as do Eastern Catholics - but they do not refer to it as such. In the West, we love to define every little thing and deconstruct it and put it into nice, neat compartments. In the East, they are more content to say that it is a Holy Mystery, and we do not know how the Lord does it, but He does it.

 

[English Augustine]

The impression I get from Orthodox writers is that they believe essentially the same thing as we do, that the substance is changed to that of the whole Christ, but they don't like using our Western terms derived from Aristotle.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

From what I understand, this is the Orthodox POV; so what is [any of] the ECC's?

Hi, no this is not the Orthodox OR the Eastern Catholic view it's mostly a "mainline Protestant" view (like Lutheran, I think.)

Orthodox believe just as we do, they just don't go into specifics...we do, and so have the transubstantiation teaching.

Orthodox definitely don't believe in consubstantiation (that's so hard to type wow lol!)

consubstantiation teaches that the bread and wine are still present, along with Christ's Body and Blood...transubstantation teaches that bread and wine become His Body and Blood in substance, with only the appearance (accidents) remaining.

God bless

 

[AMDG]

The many Rites of the Eastern Catholic (one lung of the one Catholic Church) firmly believe in that the Eucharist is indeed the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. It is a Mystery. The Western (or Roman or Latin) Rite of the one Catholic Church calls the belief that the Eucharist becomes indeed the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ "transubstantiation".

 

[Br. Xavier]

I took everything you guys said for granted beforehand, but I read this this morning (last post): http://www.christianforums.com/t7306778-2/

I never really looked into it.

Thanks all for clarifying.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Hi, no this is not the Orthodox OR the Eastern Catholic view it's mostly a "mainline Protestant" view (like Lutheran, I think.)

Orthodox believe just as we do, they just don't go into specifics...we do, and so have the transubstantiation teaching.

Orthodox definitely don't believe in consubstantiation (that's so hard to type wow lol!)


consubstantiation teaches that the bread and wine are still present, along with Christ's Body and Blood...transubstantation teaches that bread and wine become His Body and Blood in substance, with only the appearance (accidents) remaining.

God bless

Hi, confessional Lutherans do not hold consubstantiation. We describe our belief as "Sacramental Union"; like our Orthodox brothers and sisters, we do not define how it happens, just accept that it does. A divine and glorious mystery.

Respectfully,

Mark

 

[Memento Mori]

I don't think there is a united belief among the Orthodox, right? Some hold to consubstantiation and others hold to transubstantiation (though I think consubstantiation is the minority). At least, that is the impression I get because I have seen both defended by the Orthodox. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Br. Xavier]

I don't think there is a united belief among the Orthodox, right? Some hold to consubstantiation and others hold to transubstantiation (though I think consubstantiation is the minority). At least, that is the impression I get because I have seen both defended by the Orthodox. Correct me if I'm wrong.

This makes sense (and explains said posters words).

 

[Tonks]

I don't think there is a united belief among the Orthodox, right? Some hold to consubstantiation and others hold to transubstantiation (though I think consubstantiation is the minority). At least, that is the impression I get because I have seen both defended by the Orthodox. Correct me if I'm wrong.

More properly...we believe that is the body and blood of Christ (as He stated). As a mystery we don't feel the need to define bread/accidents/etc.

 

[JoabAnias]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Consubstantiation

 

[Anhelyna]

More properly...we believe that is the body and blood of Christ (as He stated). As a mystery we don't feel the need to define bread/accidents/etc.

As do Eastern Catholics too

 

[AllForJesus]

We belive that it is the Body and Blood of Christ.

Sometimes i feel that we try to over think things and this lead to more distorition...

St Thomas Aquinas: Because God is infinitely simple, he can only appear to the finite mind as though he were infinitely complex.

 

[Br. Xavier]

I can make this simple. Does the said poster's post have any credibility? That's where this started.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hi, confessional Lutherans do not hold consubstantiation. We describe our belief as "Sacramental Union"; like our Orthodox brothers and sisters, we do not define how it happens, just accept that it does. A divine and glorious mystery.

Respectfully,

Mark

thanks Mark sorry, I must have gotten Lutherans confused with another denomination.

I don't think there is a united belief among the Orthodox, right? Some hold to consubstantiation and others hold to transubstantiation (though I think consubstantiation is the minority). At least, that is the impression I get because I have seen both defended by the Orthodox. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that most Orthodox (at least in my experience) don't go into these details at all and just call it a mystery...but their beliefs are most similar to transubstantiation. However, I have met Orthodox who disagree, and one Orthodox person told me that the bread and wine are still present (consubstantiation..) it's the same thing with Mary's sinlessness, the official Orthodox teaching seems to be that she never sinned, but some Orthodox think she sinned... maybe it's not dogma in the EO church. (I don't know if they have defined dogmas like we do)

 

[Br. Xavier]

Thanks everyone.

 

[JoabAnias]

As do Eastern Catholics too

There is no need to define it beyond what it already is.

Holy Eucharist

 

[Athanasias]

thanks Mark sorry, I must have gotten Lutherans confused with another denomination.



I think that most Orthodox (at least in my experience) don't go into these details at all and just call it a mystery...but their beliefs are most similar to transubstantiation. However, I have met Orthodox who disagree, and one Orthodox person told me that the bread and wine are still present (consubstantiation..) it's the same thing with Mary's sinlessness, the official Orthodox teaching seems to be that she never sinned, but some Orthodox think she sinned... maybe it's not dogma in the EO church. (I don't know if they have defined dogmas like we do)

The Greek and Russian orthodox sources I found admit to the Eucharist being a mystery but also admitted that some of their orthodox theologians in the past have used the term "transubstantiaton" to describe the change. The also site the Eucharist as being "substantially" Christ blood and Body" which in essense is the Catholic understanding of trasnsubstantiation or "change of substance" and not consubstantiation.

Here are the Orthodox sources that speak of this.

Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Australia — Holy Eucharist


Russian Orthodox Church in Australia - Holy Eucharist