Conservative and Fundamentalist

[dorig59]

Can someone tell me the difference between a conservative Christian and a fundamentalist Christian?

 

[singpeace]

Can someone tell me the difference between a conservative Christian and a fundamentalist Christian?

My understanding is that they are relatively the same. About 100 years ago, some protestants became upset at liberal teachings in the protestant church. The formed a new group and called themselves Fundamentalists.

Conservative Christians are a pretty wide scope and belong to different conservative denominations.

That's about all I know.

 

[desmalia]

There have been wars in this forum about these definitions in the past, and people have even been kicked off or willingly left CF because of them. It's a hot topic (or at least has been).

All fundamentalists are conservatives, but not all conservatives are fundamentalists. One of the primary issues that sets fundamentalists apart is the adherence to Sola Scriptura. Not all conservatives hold to it, but all fundamentalists do. If you want to see a generalized list of each to compare the differences, you can look at the Statements of Purpose for this forum and the Fundamentalist forum.

That's all just talking about theological beliefs. Political stands get more complicated than that.

 

[dorig59]

Thanks for the answers, I appreiate it. Sure don't want to open a can of worms.

 

[A New Dawn]

Fundamentalism originally came about out of the liberal leanings of many churches back around the time of Darwin. It originally started with 5 basic beliefs.

• The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
• The virgin birth of Christ.
• The belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin.
• The bodily resurrection of Christ.
• The historical reality of Christ's miracles.

Since then, the definition has narrowed and has come to mean a group who is isolationist in nature. A group that refuses to accept or abide those who believe that certain portions of the scriptures are not historic, or who believe that there are other ways to heaven. They will not even accept other firm believers in the above if they participate in events with those who are not firm believers.

I think most conservatives hold to the 5 fundamental values listed above, but are not isolationist in nature.

 

[desmalia]

Fundamentalism originally came about out of the liberal leanings of many churches back around the time of Darwin. It originally started with 5 basic beliefs.

• The inspiration of the Bible by the Holy Spirit and the inerrancy of Scripture as a result of this.
• The virgin birth of Christ.
• The belief that Christ's death was the atonement for sin.
• The bodily resurrection of Christ.
• The historical reality of Christ's miracles.

Since then, the definition has narrowed and has come to mean a group who is isolationist in nature. A group that refuses to accept or abide those who believe that certain portions of the scriptures are not historic, or who believe that there are other ways to heaven. They will not even accept other firm believers in the above if they participate in events with those who are not firm believers.

I think most conservatives hold to the 5 fundamental values listed above, but are not isolationist in nature.

There are groups that are isolationists, but not all of us are. In fact I'd venture to say that most of us are not. True, I won't pretend that Universalists, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, etc. are Christians. But that doesn't mean I live in isolation from them.

 

[A New Dawn]

There are groups that are isolationists, but not all of us are. In fact I'd venture to say that most of us are not. True, I won't pretend that Universalists, Muslims, Hindus, Mormons, etc. are Christians. But that doesn't mean I live in isolation from them.

I'm not talking about living in isolation from others, per se, I am talking about not associating with other groups, religiously, who are not fundamentalist.

For example, Billy Graham, who is a conservative Christian and believes the 5 fundamental beliefs, had, with him on his crusades, a Christian who leaned moderate, and for that reason, fundamentalists boycotted Billy Graham's crusades, even though he taught the 5 basic fundamentals.

 

[desmalia]

I'm not talking about living in isolation from others, per se, I am talking about not associating with other groups, religiously, who are not fundamentalist.

For example, Billy Graham, who is a conservative Christian and believes the 5 fundamental beliefs, had, with him on his crusades, a Christian who leaned moderate, and for that reason, fundamentalists boycotted Billy Graham's crusades, even though he taught the 5 basic fundamentals.

Well yes, fundamentalists are more likely to be the ones who take a stand when they see something going very wrong. For instance, I'm very concerned that John Piper invited Rick Warren to speak at his Desiring God conferences. However, I don't think that's a reason to boycott him.

However, when Billy Graham hints that he aspires to some degree of Universalism, that is serious enough that I won't recommend his writings to new Christians. There are better sources.

Generally when you look at what "more moderate" means in detail, there is most often good reason for serious concern. And yes, while perhaps some conservatives will not take issue with it, fundamentalists are more likely to.

I just hope you're not trying to paint us as a bunch of angry extremists who attack anyone who disagrees with us. Just today I came across two different posts by people who linked to a website that is indeed extremest, alarmist and ridiculous (ug!!), but that's not what Christian fundamentalism is about. I'm sure the person who developed that site believes himself to be a fundamentalist, but the content shows him instead to be angry, and heavily legalistic - not a Christian fundamentalist. And sadly there are many who think we are all like that, even in the church.

 

[A New Dawn]

I just hope you're not trying to paint us as a bunch of angry extremists who attack anyone who disagrees with us. Just today I came across two different posts by people who linked to a website that is indeed extremest, alarmist and ridiculous (ug!!), but that's not what Christian fundamentalism is about. I'm sure the person who developed that site believes himself to be a fundamentalist, but the content shows him instead to be angry, and heavily legalistic - not a Christian fundamentalist. And sadly there are many who think we are all like that, even in the church.

I am not trying to paint anyone in any way, just relating the difference between fundamentalists and conservatives, both who happen to believe the same things regarding the 5 basic fundamental beliefs.

However, I can say that there are many who take their stand to the extreme, and don't even feel that they need to be respectful, or even cordial, to those who believe differently, or even to those who believe the same but do happen to associate with those who believe differently. In those cases, it's not me who's doing the painting.

 

[desmalia]

I am not trying to paint anyone in any way, just relating the difference between fundamentalists and conservatives, both who happen to believe the same things regarding the 5 basic fundamental beliefs.

However, I can say that there are many who take their stand to the extreme, and don't even feel that they need to be respectful, or even cordial, to those who believe differently, or even to those who believe the same but do happen to associate with those who believe differently. In those cases, it's not me who's doing the painting.

But let us consider that it is not always actual fundamentalists who are doing the painting (For instance, the Westboro group is hardly fundamentalist!! though they're often assumed to be). Perhaps it is best not to perpetuate the problem by continuing with false generalizations, but offer clarity instead.

It may be helpful to share for reference the Fundamentals as laid out in 1976 by the World Congress of Fundamentalism. It's been used by the Fundamentalist section of CF for quite some time now: http://www.christianforums.com/t7396152/

 

[A New Dawn]

But let us consider that it is not always actual fundamentalists who are doing the painting (For instance, the Westboro group is hardly fundamentalist!! though they're often assumed to be). Perhaps it is best not to perpetuate the problem by continuing with false generalizations, but offer clarity instead.

It may be helpful to share for reference the Fundamentals as laid out in 1976 by the World Congress of Fundamentalism. It's been used by the Fundamentalist section of CF for quite some time now: http://www.christianforums.com/t7396152/

But point #6 says exactly what I have been saying. And I don't think I have been painting a biased picture. Fundamentalism has moved away from just the basic 5 fundamental beliefs as foundational to something it wasn't at it's inception.

 

[desmalia]

But point #6 says exactly what I have been saying. And I don't think I have been painting a biased picture. Fundamentalism has moved away from just the basic 5 fundamental beliefs as foundational to something it wasn't at it's inception.

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[A New Dawn]

I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree.

Since I don't know which part of what I'm saying you're disagreeing with, I guess we will.

 

[desmalia]

Since I don't know which part of what I'm saying you're disagreeing with, I guess we will.

This:

Fundamentalism has moved away from just the basic 5 fundamental beliefs as foundational to something it wasn't at it's inception.

 

[A New Dawn]

What is there to disagree with? I have read several histories on Fundamentalism, and they all say that that is true. There is now more to being a fundamentalist than just believing the 5 fundamental beliefs. If that was all that was needed, I could be a fundamentalist, but I really can't because of what else I believe.

 

[DLC]

Can someone tell me the difference between a conservative Christian and a fundamentalist Christian?

Basically they are the same and then different. I do not use the term fundamentalist due to the problem this lable can pose. I just call myself a biblisist.

Fudament = Stands for the fundamentals of the faith = salvation as a free gift us from God received by faith, the inerrancy of the Bible, Trinity, Creation, ect. you know the fundamentals.

Conservative - Traditional, not extreem in views, leaning more towards the old ways not the new. Hymns over contemporary music, loves the preaching through books of the Bible over topics. Not legalistic.

 

[A New Dawn]

I'm not sure that hymns over contemporary music is a hallmark of conservative Christians. I attend a conservative non-denominational church and we have a band up front and sing lots of praise music and hymns. Both are good and each has a different purpose.

 

[GraceSeeker]

Conservative - Traditional, not extreem in views, leaning more towards the old ways not the new. Hymns over contemporary music, loves the preaching through books of the Bible over topics. Not legalistic.

Now, see, I wouldn't call this person you describe above a "conservative", but a "traditionalist". There are traditionalists who lean more toward the old ways, not the new. Who prefer hymns over contemporary music. And who love preaching through the books of the Bible over topics. And certainly are not legalistic, and yet their theology is not conservative, but liberal. In fact, you just described people like William Ellery Channing and Theodore Parker who are actually Unitarians.

I think the terms "conservative" and "fundamentalist" have to do with the way one processes his/her theology, more than one's preferred style or worship or preaching.

The terms themselves give you a hint at the differences:
Fundamentalist hold that there are certain fundamentals that one has to accept in order to qualify as a Christian. There is a definite lithmus test that one must pass. To a fundamentalist you are either in or you are out. There are no grey areas (or if there are, they are so small or about such minor issues as to be practically irrelevant).
Conservatives are trying to conserve a particular point in time (that's why they often get confused with the traditionalists) or a particular expression of the faith. One of the frustrating things in the church is that theology is not fixed, and most of us wish that it was. The reality is that while God is immutable, we see evidence even in the book of Acts that theology is always evolving. So, once there was an expectation that all followers of Jesus, would become members of the Way, which as a sect within Judaism. Acts 15 is the record of that being challenged and the development of a new orthodoxy as articulated by John. Galatians shows how Paul continued to let even the presentation of that change as the context of his ministry changed. For Paul, what needed to be conserved was the preaching of the cross. Conservatives said first to liberals like Peter, then to Paul, then to Clement, Justin Martyr, Origen, Athanasius and others, each (except Athanasius) a liberal in his own turn, that they were willing to go so far and no more. Today, many conservatives are like Luther looking to go back to some particular point when in their view theology was settled. For most of us that means we accept the theology of the church as far as Chalcedon and then stop there. But depending on your tradition, once radical things like being "slain in the spirit" or "private prayer languages" may now be acceptable as well, as long as you don't start talking about the really new stuff like "liberation theology", which is really presented as being quite conservative if you are from Latin America, but still viewed as avante garde or even heretical when discussed in the USA.


If you understand what I am saying, you will see that the theological spectrum is not a continuim from liberal to conservative to fundamentalist. Though some people will propose that. Conservative is a much less nuanced category than either of the other two.

For while all fundamentalists (as presently incarnated) are conservatives, not all conservatives are fundamentalists. And some people (such as probably myself) would fall into both conservative and liberal camps, not fitting either exclusively.

I also encourage you to look at the verbs used:

Maintains an immovable allegiance
Judges all things
Exposes and separates
Earnestly contends
​

These are representative ways of Fundamentalist thinking as expressed by their own CF statement of faith.

Compare that with the CF statement of purpose for "Conservatives":

We believe...
We believe...
We believe...
We believe...

​

It isn't that the Fundamentalists aren't concerned about what they believe, or that Conservatives don't want to see others believe as they do. But there is a willingness among conservatives to realize that we don't all have to believe exactly the same thing to belong to Jesus. So rather than telling others what is needed to belong, they simply affirm that which is important to them, that which they seek to conserve. While for the Fundamentalist, concern over other people and a belief that there is a definitive lithmus test leads them to confess "a militant orthodoxy with a soulwinning zeal." Which is why I originally said that the difference between Fundamentalists and Conservatives is often more over how one processes his/her theology than the actual content it contains.

 

[kitty4038]

In the real world, "Fundamentalist" usually means legalistic. Every church that I have seen that calls them selves fundamentalist are very legalistic. Example, no make up etc.....Some are even very cultist, like no other church is good enough for them.

Conservative Christians seem to be people who are pro-life , beleive the Bible is the Word of God and stand up for the family and traditional values.

 

[desmalia]

I'm not sure that hymns over contemporary music is a hallmark of conservative Christians. I attend a conservative non-denominational church and we have a band up front and sing lots of praise music and hymns. Both are good and each has a different purpose.

Yet again, we agree on something, lol.
I think Conservative Christians tend to hold to a higher degree of historic orthodoxy and moral stands against libertine ideologies. It's still a pretty broad spectrum, though.

As a Fundie, I tend to prefer (good, theologically rich) hymns (as there are lots of bad hymns around too! lol), but even I do appreciate some contemporary songs in church, so long as they are theologically sound and have some depth. I can't stand the "7-11" mindless choruses that are so popular in most evangelical (including conservative) churches today.

In the real world, "Fundamentalist" usually means legalistic. Every church that I have seen that calls them selves fundamentalist are very legalistic. Example, no make up etc.....Some are even very cultist, like no other church is good enough for them.

Well that's the stereotype to be sure. But it was once a good and meaningful word that I'm not ready to surrender quite yet.
~says the gal who wears make-up, pants, and as of a few days ago, short hair.

Conservative Christians seem to be people who are pro-life, beleive the Bible is the Word of God and stand up for the family and traditional values.

This is a good definition.