consecration to the Immaculate Heart

[Philip James]

HI all,
I have 3 questions...

1. What does consecrate mean?
2. Is this not something that is reserved to God by the first commandment?
3. How do we know the spirit that calls itself 'the Immaculate Heart' is really Mary?

Peace and Love!
PJ

 

[chelcb]

3. How do we know the spirit that calls itself 'the Immaculate Heart' is really Mary?

Because the Church investigated it and declared it authentic.

2. Is this not something that is reserved to God by the first commandment?

Consecration is not worship. We worship God, not Mary.

1. What does consecrate mean?

To set apart for holiness. We consecrate ourselves to Mary's immaculate heart so that she may lead us to a deeper relationship with Christ, her Son which leads us to holiness.

 

[MaryS47]

Hi, Phillip

I am Rose46 from Rapture Ready, and I have wondered why as a Catholic you do not believe what the church teaches about Mary. Can you explain why?

 

[jukesk9]

Welcome Marys47. You will find this is a welcome respite from "That Other Board." Glad to have you here.

 

[chelcb]

anybody want to tell me what's going on?

 

[Philip James]

Today at 12:19 AM MaryS47 said this in Post #3

Hi, Phillip

I am Rose46 from Rapture Ready, and I have wondered why as a Catholic you do not believe what the church teaches about Mary. Can you explain why?

Hi Mary,

 I have no issue with the traditional role of Mary as a special intercessor for us. I have the utmost respect and love for the Mother of God.

 it is the spirit that calls itself 'The Immaculate Heart' that I have a problem with. It seems to be preaching a new gospel: 'salvation of the world through consecration to the Immaculate Heart' and that worries me.

It's central message is that we give ourselves to it.  Let me quote from 'To the priests..' by Fr. Gobi...

1(a) Renew your consecration to my Immaculate Heart. You are mine you belong to me.

2(c) Learn to let yourself be possesed by me, so that in everything you do, it will be I who am doing it through you

6(c) Why do you not wish to entrust yourself to me? Let it be I who build-moment by moment- your future. It is enough for you to say just as a little child: Mother, I trust you, I let myself be led by you. Tell me what must I do.

6(d) And also let it be I who act through you. For this how necessary it is for you to die to yourself

9(b) One who has consecrated himself to me belongs totally to me. He cannot, at any moment of the day, decide freely what he is to do with himself

10(d) 'Mother' was his last agonizing cry, the loud cry with which He expired on the cross.

I can give you many more just like this where this spirit seems to be asking to take the place in our hearts that rightly belongs to God, to trust to it the things we should trust to the Father, to let it work through us the way we should letthe Holy Spirit work through us..

Would Mary ask this? And if it is not  Mary how dangerous then to allow ourselves to be possesed by it.

And this one really scares me: 9(g) They must understand that to belong to the Movement nothing external nor any juridical act is necessary; what is indeispensible, however, is an interior consecration of their whole selves and the total offering of their priesthood to my Immaculate Heart

This consecration is NOT a Tradition of the apostles and thus I feel should be examined VERY carefully.

Peace and Love!

PJ

 

[ZooMom]

Today at 07:19 PM MaryS47 said this in Post #3 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=704020#post704020)

Hi, Phillip

I am Rose46 from Rapture Ready, and I have wondered why as a Catholic you do not believe what the church teaches about Mary. Can you explain why?

Welcome to the boards, MaryS47. I hope you enjoy it here.

Peace be with you.

 

[Philip James]

Yesterday at 05:47 AM chelcb said this in Post #2

3. How do we know the spirit that calls itself 'the Immaculate Heart' is really Mary?

Because the Church investigated it and declared it authentic.

Hi chelcb,

What did it declare authentic? That an apparition really occurred? This I do not doubt for Fatima. That the apparition was indeed Mary?  How did they determine that, when it never said 'I am Mary?'

 And if they did indeed detemine that it WAS Mary, why didn't the hierarchy follow her wishes?

2. Is this not something that is reserved to God by the first commandment?

Consecration is not worship. We worship God, not Mary.

1. What does consecrate mean?

To set apart for holiness. We consecrate ourselves to Mary's immaculate heart so that she may lead us to a deeper relationship with Christ, her Son which leads us to holiness.

Let's see what the 'Immaculate Heart' defines consecration as:

9(b) <B>One who has consecrated himself to me belongs totally to me. He cannot, at any moment of the day, decide freely what he is to do with himself</B>


Now if we belong totally to it, how then can we belong to the Lord? Can we serve two masters? We already belong to Christ, why give yourself to another?

it is my opinion, that the church needs to go back and reexamine this apparition(s). For if this is NOT Mary, then it is the greatest and most dangerous heresy planted in the church yet.


Peace and Love!

PJ

 

[MaryS47]

Thank you for the welcome, Jukesk9. Yes, I think I've had about enough I can take of the Rapture Ready apologetics forum. Most of the other forums there are ok, but I feel I am wasting my time there as a Catholic as far as witnessing for the Catholic faith there.

I haven't read too much of the Father Gobbi messages concerning consecration to Mary, but some of what you quoted does seem a little over the top. I myself follow the Fatima messages where consecration to Mary basically seems to mean just allowing Mary to lead us to Jesus, which doesn't seem wrong to me. It seems that on RR Phillip you do not seem to believe in any Mary apparitions, even those approved by the church. I know you are an orthodox Catholic. I admit I don't know if they teach any different regarding Mary apparitions, I thought the RCC and orthodox taught basically the same, but maybe I'm wrong. So do you believe in any Mary apparitions at all? Just curious, because it seems on RR you don't and that seems to please those at RR greatly. By the way, how do you stay so calm in witnessing to them? I think you are one of the few Catholics left there who has been there a long time and not gone completely frustrated with their wrong impressions of the Catholic church.

 

[MaryS47]

Thanks Zoomom for your welcome. I've been looking for a friendlier place than RR and since they seem to think so unhighly of this place, I figured I'd try it here, LOL. Must be nice here if you can't get away with calling the RCC all those names they do at RR, you know.

 

[ZooMom]

Today at 12:01 AM MaryS47 said this in Post #10 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=704662#post704662)

Thanks Zoomom for your welcome. I've been looking for a friendlier place than RR and since they seem to think so unhighly of this place, I figured I'd try it here, LOL. Must be nice here if you can't get away with calling the RCC all those names they do at RR, you know.

Indeed it is nice here. Mostly.

 

[seebs]

Well, we still have *some* Catholic-bashing, but it's certainly not as pronounced as it might be some places.

 

[Annabel Lee]

Hello Mary.
You'll like it here.

 

[Kotton]

Yesterday at 10:57 PM MaryS47 said this in Post #9&nbsp;

Yes, I think I've had about enough I can take of the Rapture Ready apologetics forum. Most of the other forums there are ok, but I feel I am wasting my time there as a Catholic as far as witnessing for the Catholic faith there.&nbsp;

When I read your post the first thing that came to mind was a thread from another board. There was a link to this site: http://www.lesfemmes-thetruth.org&nbsp;

From Fr. Corapi,

I'll tell you something, I used to contest with these people. I used to debate with them. I used to engage in apologetics with them. I don't do it anymore and I'm going to tell you something. For the most part, I am more qualified to do it than you are, than most of you. I've got a doctorate, I've got five degrees in Theology and Philosophy. I know the material, but I don't do it because it is an exercise in futility and I don't want to drive myself 'nuts,' in plain English, and it doesn't work. Now, if I have to defend the faith, I'll do that, but I do not engage in debates with people, especially with people who have lost the faith. There's an axiom in metaphysics, 'Things are received in the mode of the receiver.' I say this over and over again. You get what you're ready to get, you receive what you're ready to receive."

My pastor&nbsp;gave me a very similar response when I was talking to him about debate boards. He said it was frustrating and he couldn't waste time when there is so much else to do.

Kotton

 

[Philip James]

Today at 04:57 AM MaryS47 said this in Post #9

I haven't read too much of the Father Gobbi messages concerning consecration to Mary, but some of what you quoted does seem a little over the top.

I agree, it sounds 'over the top'. I beagn reading these messages when my parish priest gave me the book as I sought to deepen my walk in the Faith. I was very surprised by what I found there. It was after this that I began investigating Fatima. and the messages are consistent with the spirit that appeared there (which it claimed to be through Fr. Gobi).

&nbsp;

I myself follow the Fatima messages where consecration to Mary basically seems to mean just allowing Mary to lead us to Jesus, which doesn't seem wrong to me.

Were all this spirit asked of us was to follow jesus more closely, to commit ourselves to Him more faithfully, I would have no problem with it. Were this Mary, I would expect it to say 'There he is, listen to Him', 'give yourself to Him'.But it asks us to give (consecrate) ourselves to it. To listen to it. To trust it to take us to jesus.to serve it's plans&nbsp;And what if it betrays that trust? if we have given ourselves to it, will we follow one who it claims is it's 'Son' returned to us? Were it to appear again and single out some man as Christ reborn, how many would follow?

It seems that on RR Phillip you do not seem to believe in any Mary apparitions, even those approved by the church. I know you are an orthodox Catholic.

&nbsp;

while I respect our orthodox brethren, I assure you, I am a Roman catholic.

I admit I don't know if they teach any different regarding Mary apparitions, I thought the RCC and orthodox taught basically the same, but maybe I'm wrong. So do you believe in any Mary apparitions at all?

I believe there have indeed been apparitions. And while I have not examined all of them, those i have looked at I do not belive are Mary. In fact I have become convinced that the spirit that spoke through Fr, Gobi and the spirit that appeared at Fatima are one and the same and that it is preaching a new gospel. And I take St. Paul's warning about 'an angel of light' seriously.

&nbsp;

Just curious, because it seems on RR you don't and that seems to please those at RR greatly.

unfortunately they also want to throw out the real Mary, the one who intercedes for us. the one we&nbsp;love and honour.&nbsp;

However it is this very love of mary (which is right and proper) that may have blinded us to the spirit that calls itself 'the Immaculate heart'.

By the way, how do you stay so calm in witnessing to them? I think you are one of the few Catholics left there who has been there a long time and not gone completely frustrated with their wrong impressions of the Catholic church.

:lol&nbsp; I do indeed get frustrated. But the Spirit kept moving me to witness there. I take no credit for remaining calm, it is the peace that Christ gives us that allows me to do that. Alleluia!

(it's easier to, if we remember that Jesus loves them and died for them too! )

Peace and Love!

PJ

 

[MaryS47]

Hi, Annabel Lee
Yes, it seems a lot nicer here already.

Kotton,
I probably could have used that priest's advice before I ever ventured into RR. I only read a few posts before I went on there, seeing misconceptions about the Catholic church, and thought I could actually help them see how much Catholicism did for me personally and help correct some of their mistaken ideas about the church. I was pretty naive in retrospect to think anything I said could change their opinions. Oh well, I do hope maybe I did help a lurker there, who knows, so maybe my time there wasn't totally wasted.

Phillip, I guess I maybe got you mixed up with someone else who was orthodox. I can see your point of view though about consecration to the "immaculate heart of Mary." It COULD be dangerous for those not grounded in faith in Jesus if it is false and not truly Mary. I know the church doesn't require us to believe in apparitions or any messages from them. Thanks for your explanation. I guess I didn't understand your reasoning before and was confused and thought you believed that Mary was just a sinner like all of us like they do at RR.

 

[Philip James]

Today at 01:18 AM MaryS47 said this in Post #16


Phillip, I guess I maybe got you mixed up with someone else who was orthodox. I can see your point of view though about consecration to the "immaculate heart of Mary." It COULD be dangerous for those not grounded in faith in Jesus if it is false and not truly Mary.

and this is why I am so concerned. For if we are 'grounded in faith in Jesus' we do not need to give ourselves to another to lead us to Him. And if we are not grounded in HIM, we are vulnerable. And this spirit (especially through Fr.Gobi's movement) asks us to ground ourselves in IT! Mary would never do that!

&nbsp;I feel very strongly about his, and I pray the Lord forgives me, if it is I who am deceived.

&nbsp;

I know the church doesn't require us to believe in apparitions or any messages from them. Thanks for your explanation.

no&nbsp;it doesn't, but if what i am seeing is correct, then it should be actively disowning them. And I feel it's my duty to shout this warning to the church.

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

I guess I didn't understand your reasoning before and was confused and thought you believed that Mary was just a sinner like all of us like they do at RR.

there was I time where i may have doubted Mary's sinlessness, but I would never have argued against it, and I no longer doubt it.

Hail Mary, full of Grace the Lord is with Thee!Please pray for the church, that we remain True and faithful to your Son Jesus, and the Traditions He gave to the apostles!

Amen!

Peace and Love!

PJ

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Phillip-

You make a lot of sense.

 

[Budge]

Hello mary, How are you doing?

I think Philip has some good questions about this "consecration to The Immaculate Heart" business.

We must always keep focus on Jesus.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

The one thing that worries me is that while talking to someone who is dedicating herself to Jesus through Mary is that she had to constantly correct herself. She kept saying, "dedicating myself to Mary," and would need to correct herself.