What are BobRyan's intentions? Here & on other posts throughout this Christian discussion forum? So far, he seems to be looking for things in Mormonism, the Book of Mormon, & Mormon history
to make issues out of. Looking for things to vilify, which is an easy thing to do to all religions, all groups, & all things, with
a few vilification tactics. Being a 7th Day Adventist, what would happen if his own faith, & the Bible (which Mormons & Christians also believe in too), was put under the same tactics, & had different instruments of God, as used by Old & New Testament prophets, also made into issues?
Translation issues: “In nineteenth-century China, opposition to aggressive missionary activity was expressed . . .[in] anti-Christian literature. . . . the fact that the Chinese character for ‘Lord’ is homophonous with that for ‘pig’. Christ is depicted as a pig. . . “ (John McManners, editor,
The Oxford Illustrated History of Christianity, (Oxford, New York: Oxford University Press, 1990), p. 504).
Early anti-Christians also CHARGED that early Christians also USED "MAGICAL STONES." (R. Joseph Hoffmann, (translator)
Celsus On The True Doctrine, (A Discourse Against the early Christians), (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1987), p.98;
The Ante-Nicene Fathers, = ANF,
vol. 4:590-1,
Origen Against Celsus, bk.6 chap. 39).
Jewish historian, 1st cent. AD,
Josephus, p.77, talked of the stones the Jews used, which shined & gave revelations.
The Truth About the Godmakers, p.140.
Biblical use of stones: The World of the Bible, p.166-7. George Ferguson,
Signs & Symbols In Christian Art, (New York: Oxford University Press, 1959), 24.
Church Symbolism, p.57 pl.6 fig.12. Ex. 28:13-30; 39:8, 21; 1 These.5:8; Rev.2:17. Jos.4:1-3; 6-9, 20-4. 1 Cor.10:1-4; Gen.31:44-52; 28:10-12, 22; Jos.24:26-7.
Walter Lowrie, Art In The Early Church, (Washington Square, New York, New York: Pantheon Books, 1947), pl. 144. The
Illustrated Bible Dictionary, p.207, & 1498.
ANF 2:452-4, Clement of Alex. on Jewish symbols. Carl Van Treeck and Aloysius Croft, M.A.,
Symbols in the Church, 1936. Fredk, WM. Hackwood, F.R.S.L.,
Christ Lore (Being the Legends, Traditions, Myths, Symbols, & Superstitions of The Christian Church), (London: 1902, republished, Detroit: Gale Research Company, Book Tower, 1969). Goblet D'Alviella, (The Count),
The Migration of Symbols, (Westminster, 1894, reproduced by University Books, 1956). Heather Child and Dorothy Colles, 1971,
Christian Symbols Ancient & Modern, (Charles Scribner’s Sons, Great Britain).
In historic Christianity, the different balls and orbs used by Christian kings, could be misinterpreted by the BobRyan types, anti-Christians & atheists, as also being “magical” and of the occult.
Depictions of Christ & Christ-child, holding orbs, symbolic of how
he reigns & wanders all over the world. These orbs are often depicted in Christ's hand, or under his feet, and is a historic Christian royal symbol. They too could be vilified as a
magical crystal ball, or "seer stone," like on
Lord of the Rings. It may be that orb symbolism was passed down from the Jewish traditions derived from traditions about stones that the Old Testament time prophets and Jewish priests used, which stones were passed down through the generations. These stones, called the
urim and
thummim, which in Hebrew means,
lights and
perfections, and when worn, they were carried in the breastplate over the heart. (
Old Testament: Genesis—2 Samuel (Religion 301), Student Manual, (Salt Lake City, Utah: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Church Educational System, 1980, 1981), p. 152; Exodus 28:30; Lev. 8:8; Numbers 27:21; Deut. 33:8; 1 Samuel 28:6; Ezra 2:63; Neh. 7:65).
Why would God of the Old Testament, uses physical objects, like stones, to reveal things? Why the "burning bush," of Moses? To non-Christians, these may sound like strange stories, as the stories of non-Christians might sound strange to Christians too. Were stones used to get the world ready to recieve the "rolling stone," (Christ), who is likened unto a stone, because of how he revealed the truths of His & our Heavenly Father? It seems that the basic concept of stone-revealers, (Rev. 2:17), such things were handed down to early to later Christians, who then must have made the connection between the OT & NT typologies & symbolism.
CHRIST AS A ROLLING STONE
Stones, & rocks, in some cases also represented Christ or the Messiah. A portion of Genesis 49:24 mentions "the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
" The shepherd or stone of Israel, or the God of their fathers, is a revealer of truth, (
Genesis 49:22-26; Psalm 80:1; Isaiah 28:7-15. "Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner
stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste." (
Isaiah 28:16). Who is the stone of the sure foundation, or the corner stone? "The stone
which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes." (Psalm 14-23). The writer to the
Ephesians wrote that the church was "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner
stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord" (
Ephesians 2:20). The "
rock of revelation," also suggest that Christ, big on OT typologies of himself as the true Messiah, was making a connection with the OT use of revealer stones, or the "rock of revelation," of NT times.
In
The Doctrine & Covenants, 50:44, Jesus is identified again as the good shepherd and the stone of Israel. "Wherefore, I am in your midst, and I am the good shepherd, and the stone of Israel. He that buildeth upon this rock shall never fall." In Section 65:2, "The keys of the kingdom of God are committed unto man on the earth, and from thence shall the gospel roll forth unto the ends of the earth, as the stone which is cut out of the mountain without hands shall roll forth, until his has filled the whole earth." (
Daniel 2:24-45; 7:9-28).
Some of the early Christians saw types of Christ in the stone that rolled forth into other nations of the world to preach the gospel everywhere. For example, Cyprian, A.D. 200—258, lists a number of types of Christ, one of which is, “That He is also called a Stone . . . that . . .should become a mountain, and should fill the whole earth.” (
Ante-Nicene Fathers, 5:515, 522—23,
The Treatises of Cyprian, Treatise XII, Second Book, Heads, 16—17).
The Pastor of Hermas, [AD 160], symbolically called Christ the "rock" which pre-existed & was "a fellow-councillor with the Father in His work of creation" The apostles were symbolically called "stones" that descended down into the spirit prison to preach the gospel. They also ascended up out of that realm to become part of a building or temple. The temples, made of stones, are where new truths are revealed, the "mysteries" or ordinances. (
Ante-Nicene Fathers, 2:47, & 49; & vol. 3:172).
Where many anti-Mormon "Christians" get themselves in their own pit, dug for Mormons, is how that they try to vilify things in Mormonism-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Critics will try to draw parallels between the occult & Mormonism, not realizing that their own faith, like Bob's
7th Day Adventists, & other Christian sects, wouldn't be able to pass the same types of tests & vilification tactics, if mirror back to them. The reason being is that the occult borrows Christian symbols, rituals, doctrines, sayings, & counterfeits them. In some cases reverses them all to mock Christ. That's why there are parallels to the magic & the occult, which thing the religionists have noted & complained about the rivalry between what the prophets & apostles, & saints could do & what the magicians could also do.
Satanism blasphemously maltreats Christian objects, symbols & ceremonies. As they wreck its symbols they think that “the powers of evil can be invoked by the simple process of standing Christian morality and ritual upon its head." "Typically, all aspects of the ceremony were done in reverse, since Satan is the reverse of God.” “All these religious rites and representations-- initiation, sacrifice, prayer, hymns, myth, scripture-- are frequently . . . done backwards.” (Richard Cavendish,
Man, Myth & Magic, volume 9, p. 2479. Cottie Anthur Burland,
Beyond Science, 1972, 120-21. Eric Maple,
Witchcraft, (London: Octopus Books, 1973), p. 101. Jeffery Burton Russell,
The Prince of Darkness, 150-1. Richard Cavendish,
Man, Myth & Magic, vol. 1, p.277. Rosemary Ellen Guiley,
The Encyclopedia Of Witches & Witchcraft, (Facts On File, 1989) p. 101, under the heading: "Devil's pact." Daniel Lawrence O' Keefe,
Stolen Lightning, (Continum Publishing Company, 1982), 44-124; Arthur Lyons,
Satan Wants You, The Cult of Devil Worship In America, (New York, London, & Tokyo: The Mysterious Press, 1988), p. 44, 47, 53, 57, & 60-61. Maury Terry,
The Ultimate Evil, (New York: Dolphin Book, 1987), 163-64. Rossell Hope Robbins,
The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, (New York, New York: Bonanza Books, Crown Publishing, MCMLIX), 370-1, see heading:
Pact with the Devil. Jacob Aranza, 1983,
Backward Masking Unmasked, p.10-11,
Hit Parade, Oct. 1976, p.14; Raymond Buckland,
Witchcraft From the Inside; Cavendish,
Man Myth & Magic, vol. 7, pp.1866—70; Keith Thomas, 1971,
Religion & the Decline of Magic. Richard Cavendish,
Man Myth and Magic, vol. 1, p. 277; Jacob Aranza, 1983,
Backward Masking Unmasked; Aranza, 1985,
More Rock, Country & Backward Masking Unmasked, (Huntington House).